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#3295579 - 02/26/14 09:06 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Verminator]
tig1 Online   content


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 12848
Loc: Illinois
Clevy,
Since I've used M1 oils through out all the formulation changes, I have never experienced any unusual engine noise or quality reduction. In fact I have noticed the quality of M1 oils for the last 36 years have improved, as all other oils have.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 213,000 miles
M1 0-20 AFE
2017 Ford Fusion 37K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


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#3295585 - 02/26/14 09:09 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: tig1]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9783
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: tig1
Clevy,
Since I've used M1 oils through out all the formulation changes, I have never experienced any unusual engine noise or quality reduction. In fact I have noticed the quality of M1 oils for the last 36 years have improved, as all other oils have.


What have you got to compare current engine acoustics to though tig. If you've never used anything but M1 you have nothing to compare it against whereas I use a different oil at every oil change so I can compare acoustics directly and I remember what the last oil change sounded like etc etc.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3295593 - 02/26/14 09:18 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Verminator]
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 16595
Loc: Clovis, CA
Why do we oil a door hinge or a bicycle chain? Because it's noisy.

The sound of good lubrication is no sound.

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#3295604 - 02/26/14 09:31 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Merkava_4]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9783
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Why do we oil a door hinge or a bicycle chain? Because it's noisy.

The sound of good lubrication is no sound.



Maybe when I comes to a bike chain or door hinge however neither compare to an engine.
First of oil film thickness isn't as relevant as oil film strength. So a thinner film can be stronger than a thicker oil film even though the thicker film will mask more noise.
I don't know where you get this stuff from but one has nothing to do with another.
You know some varnish will dampen sound eh,so maybe you're engines aren't noisy because of the thick skin of varnish on the top end.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3295609 - 02/26/14 09:36 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Merkava_4]
Verminator Offline


Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 62
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC CANADA
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Why do we oil a door hinge or a bicycle chain? Because it's noisy.

The sound of good lubrication is no sound.


And this is exactly what concerns me! It's hard for me to accept that Mobil 1 5W30 causes a great deal more engine noise, yet that noise is not caused from moving parts that appear not to be lubricated properly...even though I'm told the science behind it says the parts ARE being properly lubricated...
_________________________
2004 Hyundai SantaFe 2.4L - M1 5W30 + OEM
2009 Hyundai Accent 1.6L - PYB 5W20 dino + OEM
2005 Nissan Frontier 4.0L - Castrol GTX 5W30 dino + Napa Gold

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#3295612 - 02/26/14 09:40 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Clevy]
Verminator Offline


Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 62
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC CANADA

First of oil film thickness isn't as relevant as oil film strength. So a thinner film can be stronger than a thicker oil film even though the thicker film will mask more noise.
I don't know where you get this stuff from but one has nothing to do with another.
You know some varnish will dampen sound eh,so maybe you're engines aren't noisy because of the thick skin of varnish on the top end. [/quote]
Originally Posted By: Clevy
[quote=Merkava_4]Why do we oil a door hinge or a bicycle chain? Because it's noisy.

The sound of good lubrication is no sound.



So Clevy, are you saying that from all that graph and scientific stuff posted earlier that the oil film thickness (or lack thereof) is what causes Mobil 1 oil to allow me engine sound, especially during start-ups? And that although the oil film that is on the pistons prior to start is thin, it is actually stronger than conventional oil? So that although the engine makes more noise, it is still actually being protected MORE than a quieter sounding engine with dino oil? Have I got this correct?


Edited by Verminator (02/26/14 09:42 PM)
_________________________
2004 Hyundai SantaFe 2.4L - M1 5W30 + OEM
2009 Hyundai Accent 1.6L - PYB 5W20 dino + OEM
2005 Nissan Frontier 4.0L - Castrol GTX 5W30 dino + Napa Gold

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#3295617 - 02/26/14 09:44 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Verminator]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9783
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Verminator
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Why do we oil a door hinge or a bicycle chain? Because it's noisy.

The sound of good lubrication is no sound.


And this is exactly what concerns me! It's hard for me to accept that Mobil 1 5W30 causes a great deal more engine noise, yet that noise is not caused from moving parts that appear not to be lubricated properly...even though I'm told the science behind it says the parts ARE being properly lubricated...



Oil film strength is the important fact to consider,not oil film thickness.
A thicker oil film will insulate more which means less sound transfer from rockers to the atmosphere however a thicker oil film doesn't equate to a stronger oil film.
I used to feel the same way. I swore up and down that more noise equates to more wear until I saw an eagle talon engine get torn apart.
The owner was my friend,he bought it new,used M1 exclusively and the engine had valve clatter so bad I thought it was broken.
We took it apart because he sent a rod through the block however the cams,valves,the entire head looked brand new without any wear scar on the cams whatsoever with 250k on the engine,130k running more boost and dyno tuned spraying meth to cool the intake charge.
So more noise doesn't mean more wear.
And his intake was spotless including the intake valves and the exhaust. Spraying windshield washer fluid keeps it spotless.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3295629 - 02/26/14 09:51 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Clevy]
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 16595
Loc: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted By: Clevy


Oil film strength is the important fact to consider,not oil film thickness.
A thicker oil film will insulate more which means less sound transfer from rockers to the atmosphere however a thicker oil film doesn't equate to a stronger oil film.
I used to feel the same way. I swore up and down that more noise equates to more wear until I saw an eagle talon engine get torn apart.
The owner was my friend,he bought it new,used M1 exclusively and the engine had valve clatter so bad I thought it was broken.
We took it apart because he sent a rod through the block however the cams,valves,the entire head looked brand new without any wear scar on the cams whatsoever with 250k on the engine,130k running more boost and dyno tuned spraying meth to cool the intake charge.
So more noise doesn't mean more wear.
And his intake was spotless including the intake valves and the exhaust. Spraying windshield washer fluid keeps it spotless.


Everything I put in bold I disagree with.

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#3295639 - 02/26/14 09:56 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Verminator]
dave1251 Offline


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 8399
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Film strength is not totally dependent on viscosity although it does have a very large part. Other factors such as the molecule structure of the fluid plays a role. Such as if the molecular structure is more uniformed and consistent the fluid will have a higher film strength of another fluid in the same viscosity.

That is why I am certain the "noisy" Mobil One provides more than sufficient "protection". If you are using the same grade of oil as before from a respected blender in its "synthetic" form you may believe you are hearing noises. But your engine is not "less" protective. Automotive engines like to play tricks on us I believe and I think they get a kick out of it.
_________________________
make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.

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#3295640 - 02/26/14 09:57 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Merkava_4]
dave1251 Offline


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 8399
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Clevy


Oil film strength is the important fact to consider,not oil film thickness.
A thicker oil film will insulate more which means less sound transfer from rockers to the atmosphere however a thicker oil film doesn't equate to a stronger oil film.
I used to feel the same way. I swore up and down that more noise equates to more wear until I saw an eagle talon engine get torn apart.
The owner was my friend,he bought it new,used M1 exclusively and the engine had valve clatter so bad I thought it was broken.
We took it apart because he sent a rod through the block however the cams,valves,the entire head looked brand new without any wear scar on the cams whatsoever with 250k on the engine,130k running more boost and dyno tuned spraying meth to cool the intake charge.
So more noise doesn't mean more wear.
And his intake was spotless including the intake valves and the exhaust. Spraying windshield washer fluid keeps it spotless.


Everything I put in bold I disagree with.


Don't worry I believe I answered it in terms you can understand.
_________________________
make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.

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#3295643 - 02/26/14 10:01 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Merkava_4]
Verminator Offline


Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 62
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC CANADA
So Merkava_4 you are in disagreement then with the noise issue? You believe that more noise = more wear?
_________________________
2004 Hyundai SantaFe 2.4L - M1 5W30 + OEM
2009 Hyundai Accent 1.6L - PYB 5W20 dino + OEM
2005 Nissan Frontier 4.0L - Castrol GTX 5W30 dino + Napa Gold

Top
#3295653 - 02/26/14 10:05 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Verminator]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9783
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Verminator
So Merkava_4 you are in disagreement then with the noise issue? You believe that more noise = more wear?


Verminator

Go to his profile and click on the "read members posts"

Read over some of the stuff he writes,then decide if you trust him for advice. He's got some very strange beliefs,many flabbergasted me to the point I'm speechless,so try to remember the advice is worth what you paid for it.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3295659 - 02/26/14 10:11 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Verminator]
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 16595
Loc: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted By: Verminator
So Merkava_4 you are in disagreement then with the noise issue? You believe that more noise = more wear?


I believe noise = metal to metal contact which = more wear. Yes.

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#3295673 - 02/26/14 10:20 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Merkava_4]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 34336
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I believe noise = metal to metal contact which = more wear. Yes.

Is this why we see all this massive wear on M1 UOAs and all those poor engines filled with M1 blown up on the side of the road?
_________________________
'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

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#3295676 - 02/26/14 10:27 PM Re: Engine Noise From Synthetic Oil - Does It Do Damag [Re: Quattro Pete]
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 16595
Loc: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Is this why we see all this massive wear on M1 UOAs and all those poor engines filled with M1 blown up on the side of the road?


Yes.

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