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#3294541 - 02/26/14 12:31 AM 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead
901Memphis Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 12537
Loc: Northern Kentucky


Code:
OIL             PP 5w30   
MILES IN USE    5,738    
MILES           98,603   
SAMPLE TAKEN    2/22/14

ALUMINUM        10        
CHROMIUM        1        
IRON            32      
COPPER          32       
LEAD            40      
TIN             2        
MOLYBDENUM      51       
NICKEL          1       
MANGANESE       1     
SILVER          0     
TITANIUM        8       
POTASSIUM       6      
BORON           13      
SILICON         52     
SODIUM          12     
CALCIUM         2151   
MAGNESIUM       9     
PHOSPHORUS      604     
ZINC            759   
BARIUM          0 

   
INSOLUBLES      0.4   
WATER           0.0     
FLASHPOINT F   415
SUS VIS 210F   62.1
cSt @ 212F     10.82
TBN             1.5

 


Originally Posted By: Blackstone
Wear metals are pretty high here. Aluminum shows piston wear and iron is from steel parts.
Copper and lead traditionally show bearing wear and lead at 40 ppm shows a lot of it. Copper can also be
from any other brass/bronze parts. You mentioned changing the air filter. Silicon is quite high here, so maybe
some abrasive dirt was getting into the engine. That might explain the metal, but there could be a problem
here too. No fuel showed up. The TBN shows a little active additive left at 1.5, but try just 3,000 miles on the
next oil and resample.





This is a sample from my 2002 Buick Century. Fill was Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 API SN + a older Made in the USA K&N HP-1001 oil filter w/filtermag.

Previous air filter was a K&N air filter and very shortly after changing the oil i went to change the air filter and the gasket was trashed and the filter was collapsed letting dirt into the engine the whole time. I am guessing there was a lot of abrasive dirt in the engine from the entire time the K&N was letting unfiltered air in the engine.


Link here w/pics. - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3030430

I used techron 3 times during this fill, had very high idle time in the cold sometimes 4-5 hours a week. Not sure if the techron leached lead out like i have heard before? I sure wish the lead was from something else.

The engine consumes zero oil, and the 0.6 quarts i added for top up were just the leftovers from the 5.1 quart jug i had since the engine only takes 4.5 with a oil change and i dumped that in probably halfway through the oci.

Right now it has the whole PU 5.1 quart jug in there with an oversize Fram XG filter.

I am going to start doing shorter changes in the future and monitor the lead. I have seen high iron/high copper GM engines last awhile but not with high lead. I saw a light amount of copper glitter in the bottom of the oil pan when i drained it.

I can still see the Ti from the last fill of Kendall GT1. Interesting to see the TBN so low after only 5,700 miles with the extra half a quart i threw in there halfway through the OCI.
_________________________
2002 Buick Century 130k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - Edge 0w40 + Fram XG3980
1998 Nissan Altima 337k - 5MT - M1 HM 5w30/Fram Ultra XG7317+MOS+ATP 205

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#3294548 - 02/26/14 12:54 AM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: 901Memphis]
johnachak Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 1612
Loc: L.I. NY USA
Copper sparkles in the oil pan is never a good sign. I hope you changed the air filter in time. I have read that the K&N oil filters are high flow filters. Wonder if it was letting too much of the sucked in dirt circulate. Well, you did what you can and hopefully, those numbers will improve after a short oci or two. Good luck.
_________________________
06 Ford Freestyle, PP syn 5w20 MC filter
09 CTS 3.6 D.I. AWD, M1 5w30 Delco filter
Daughters Jeep Compass 2011, 2.4 AWD, 4WD switchable on the fly.
JMH

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#3294550 - 02/26/14 01:11 AM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: johnachak]
901Memphis Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 12537
Loc: Northern Kentucky
Originally Posted By: johnachak
Copper sparkles in the oil pan is never a good sign. I hope you changed the air filter in time. I have read that the K&N oil filters are high flow filters. Wonder if it was letting too much of the sucked in dirt circulate. Well, you did what you can and hopefully, those numbers will improve after a short oci or two. Good luck.



I was told by motorking that when Fram was making the made in USA filter like i had on my vehicle it was mid 90s efficiency, so it was supposed to be just like the M1 filters.
_________________________
2002 Buick Century 130k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - Edge 0w40 + Fram XG3980
1998 Nissan Altima 337k - 5MT - M1 HM 5w30/Fram Ultra XG7317+MOS+ATP 205

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#3294619 - 02/26/14 06:31 AM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: 901Memphis]
bigt61 Offline


Registered: 02/12/13
Posts: 2958
Loc: Virginia
Seems like the air filter is now fixed - cut back on the Techron and let it eat. That 3.1L V6 is hard to kill.
_________________________
92 Suburban 2500 7.4L 58k M1_0w40 5yr OCI
99 Olds Aurora 4.0L 91K M1_5w30 5yr OCI
13 Dodge Dart 2.0L 30k PP 0w20 OLM OCI
70 Camaro 5.7L 59k

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#3294702 - 02/26/14 08:18 AM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: 901Memphis]
gregk24 Online   content


Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 5235
Loc: FL, USA
Copper in the oil pan? That cant be good. Hard to believe dust/dirt ingestion would cause copper flakes. I would be giving K&N a call/email and let them know whats up.
_________________________
2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
47,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
27,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter

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#3294723 - 02/26/14 08:32 AM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: gregk24]
Kuato Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 6469
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Copper in the oil pan? That cant be good. Hard to believe dust/dirt ingestion would cause copper flakes. I would be giving K&N a call/email and let them know whats up.

And send them the oil report when you do.

Resampling at 3k sounds like a good plan; hopefully with better air filtration thr numbers will return to normal levels.
_________________________
Oil condition is speculation until a UOA is performed.

2013 F150 5.0 4x4 SuperCab 63k on Amsoil

Thick vs Thin test: 6k / 43k miles complete


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#3294746 - 02/26/14 08:50 AM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: 901Memphis]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 10928
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
Has the LIM been repaired - IDK if this year had LIM issues. You have some K there but not a ton. What coolant are you running?
_________________________
2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#7 29472mi-QSUD 10W30 + M1 110A Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT 4762mi-SOA 0w20 + SOA Filter

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#3294802 - 02/26/14 09:37 AM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: 901Memphis]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 6574
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Si is super high-bet the XG catches it & you'll be good.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 15 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)

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#3294872 - 02/26/14 10:59 AM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: ARCOgraphite]
901Memphis Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 12537
Loc: Northern Kentucky
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Has the LIM been repaired - IDK if this year had LIM issues. You have some K there but not a ton. What coolant are you running?



Yes it was repaired in 2010. Not sure if it's still washing coolant out. I'm using G05.
_________________________
2002 Buick Century 130k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - Edge 0w40 + Fram XG3980
1998 Nissan Altima 337k - 5MT - M1 HM 5w30/Fram Ultra XG7317+MOS+ATP 205

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#3295507 - 02/26/14 07:43 PM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: gregk24]
901Memphis Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 12537
Loc: Northern Kentucky
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Copper in the oil pan? That cant be good. Hard to believe dust/dirt ingestion would cause copper flakes. I would be giving K&N a call/email and let them know whats up.


K&N already replaced the damaged air filter but I got rid of it for a high efficiency PureOne. I will re sample the PU after 3k and continue to monitor my wear.

Maybe it's just my lead foot? I heard that an sae paper pointed to most wear coming from acceleration and load rather than cold starts like some others believe. I do give it WOT when it's warm often.
_________________________
2002 Buick Century 130k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - Edge 0w40 + Fram XG3980
1998 Nissan Altima 337k - 5MT - M1 HM 5w30/Fram Ultra XG7317+MOS+ATP 205

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#3295519 - 02/26/14 07:58 PM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: 901Memphis]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9783
Loc: Saskatoon canada
To me the dirt ingestion turned the oil into a 300 grit abrasive fluid which ground at the bearings and cylinder walls.
Personally I would have run a couple of wash out oil changes with something g cheap to try an purge the system of any residual grit then run an extended interval of ultra testing it at 5000 and 7500 miles to see what's up.

If you really want to get all that stuff out of there I suggest mmo or seafoam added to the oil right now then drain it in 500 miles.
Then cheap conventional and mmo or seafoam and another short wash out interval.
Do that twice then run an extended drain and retest just to spot any changes.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3295641 - 02/26/14 09:58 PM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: 901Memphis]
901Memphis Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 12537
Loc: Northern Kentucky
I will probably use my peak conventional 5w30 for the next short interval then a Franken brew after that with more peak leftovers and some Mobil 1 TDT 5w40 I got on clearance.
_________________________
2002 Buick Century 130k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - Edge 0w40 + Fram XG3980
1998 Nissan Altima 337k - 5MT - M1 HM 5w30/Fram Ultra XG7317+MOS+ATP 205

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#3298827 - 03/02/14 01:52 AM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: 901Memphis]
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 15597
Loc: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis

Previous air filter was a K&N air filter and very shortly after changing the oil i went to change the air filter and the gasket was trashed and the filter was collapsed letting dirt into the engine the whole time. I am guessing there was a lot of abrasive dirt in the engine from the entire time the K&N was letting unfiltered air in the engine.



Switch over to Airaid 850-214

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#3299067 - 03/02/14 10:35 AM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: 901Memphis]
Boss302fan Offline


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 2342
Loc: Oconomowoc Wi
Standard stock air filter... Then use PYB and any decent oil filter.
_________________________
John P
Wisconsin
2006 Lexus LS 430
1990 Jaguar XJS V12
2011 Hyundai Santa Fe V6
Other fun cars

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#3300276 - 03/03/14 01:38 PM Re: 02' Buick Century, PP 5w30, 5,738 miles, High lead [Re: Boss302fan]
901Memphis Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 12537
Loc: Northern Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis

Previous air filter was a K&N air filter and very shortly after changing the oil i went to change the air filter and the gasket was trashed and the filter was collapsed letting dirt into the engine the whole time. I am guessing there was a lot of abrasive dirt in the engine from the entire time the K&N was letting unfiltered air in the engine.



Switch over to Airaid 850-214



It's got a PureOne in there, which is a very high efficiency lightly oiled media type filter. It should be about the best thing i can put in there to reduce silicone, and as much of a pain in the rear it is to change the filter on these cars, i plan on not touching it for awhile!

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Standard stock air filter... Then use PYB and any decent oil filter.


I've got an over sized Ultra on there right now, i am debating on leaving it on there for 2 x 3,000 mile OCI. I know the filter can handle it but knowing i had possible contamination just wants me to get it off of there.

It's unfortunate that i already put the Pennzoil Ultra in there, but i have to dump it around 3,000 miles like Blackstone recommended in case i still have high metals.

I have another Fram Ultra laying around and a standard sized Wix filter too i may use next for the shorter intervals.

I will almost surely go with PYB for my next shorter drains and save my jug of PU for a latter time.
_________________________
2002 Buick Century 130k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - Edge 0w40 + Fram XG3980
1998 Nissan Altima 337k - 5MT - M1 HM 5w30/Fram Ultra XG7317+MOS+ATP 205

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