Jack stands under "frame rails" on unibody cars

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A recent thread in the tools forum has made me start revisiting different jack stand options to work around issues with weak (OEM recommended) pinch weld stand locations on some vehicles. One option is to use stands with larger contact surface area like the ESCO stands with flat circular tops and put them under the frame rails.

But the frame rails are not the factory recommended lift or support points, and bending them or putting divots in them would be even more annoying than minor mutilation of the pinch welds. They look strong but I'm not sure whether the layer on the surface is actually strong enough to support the vehicle without bending.

Does anyone regularly use unibody frame rails as support points? Any good or bad experiences?
 
Yes, because the last three of my cars said it was okay to do so (all European, FWIW). Sometimes I use the control arms instead, if you're curious.

You should use a jack pad though so the pinch welds don't crush:

http://protechproducts.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=35


On some Audis, there are actually jack pads pre-installed at the factory:

IMGP1641.jpg
 
I actually do have a jack pad from Protech, but I don't use the jack on the pinch welds. All the cars I've ever had have had central jacking points front and rear. The pad does a good job of protecting those.

You can get pads for stands too of course, although they're a little dicey unless you can get a really good fit, IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
What about just using ramps?


It's very difficult to remove a wheel during the brief period that the car is in the air.
 
^ LOL

I think a "saddle" type jack stand would be better on a frame rail than a circle-topped one. The interface with the circle would be at a slight angle, as the car isn't level, and the low spot would grind in. The saddle style one can put in perpendicular to the frame rails and get a solid interface, usually.

Pinch weld lift points exist mostly for the cheezy emergency tire changing jack, so people don't have to stuff that too far under the car. I feel better with my car on unibody "frame rails" when I'm under it-- rocker panels rust from the inside out and could lead to trouble.

As discussed before, one needs two lift points per corner: one for the jack, one for the stands. I put the stands under the better feeling one.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
Yes, because the last three of my cars said it was okay to do so (all European, FWIW). Sometimes I use the control arms instead, if you're curious.

You should use a jack pad though so the pinch welds don't crush:

http://protechproducts.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=35


On some Audis, there are actually jack pads pre-installed at the factory:

IMGP1641.jpg



Those plastic boxes should never be used to lift a vehicle unless a wood/metal insert is put inside to take the force to the rght point.
 
Originally Posted By: rationull
A recent thread in the tools forum has made me start revisiting different jack stand options to work around issues with weak (OEM recommended) pinch weld stand locations on some vehicles. One option is to use stands with larger contact surface area like the ESCO stands with flat circular tops and put them under the frame rails.

But the frame rails are not the factory recommended lift or support points, and bending them or putting divots in them would be even more annoying than minor mutilation of the pinch welds. They look strong but I'm not sure whether the layer on the surface is actually strong enough to support the vehicle without bending.

Does anyone regularly use unibody frame rails as support points? Any good or bad experiences?


I have found the ESCO stands to be outstanding on frame rails over the last several years. The only casualty I think may have happened was on my daughter's 2008 Avalanche when I was afraid to use the diff as a central lift point. I lifted one side of the truck at a time, and I think it snapped a body to rail attachment. Luckily, it was covered under warranty (common problem?).
 
I use the frame rails to put my jack stands under but I leave the jack up taking most of the weight. The stands are for safety just in case. Lets see, dented frame rail vs crushed chest / head, hmmmm
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Those plastic boxes should never be used to lift a vehicle unless a wood/metal insert is put inside to take the force to the rght point.



Audi disagrees, and has been using those for many years.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Those plastic boxes should never be used to lift a vehicle unless a wood/metal insert is put inside to take the force to the rght point.



Audi disagrees, and has been using those for many years.


Its the approach I disagree with sticking the jack or stand on that hollow plastic form, which is not really a weight supporting item. Not the fac that those plastic things are there to guide a factory jack INTO it to then lift against the strengthened metal spot in the center of it on the car...

If an insert is put in there, no worries.

335i_135i_bmw_jack_pad_damage.jpg


There are threads all over the place with these things being damaged because youre using a hollow plastic interface to support the mass of a car, when really the metal of the car in the area of where that box is, is what is needed.
 
Up here in rust country, you want to be careful of these rails=if you use them carelessly, they get beat up and the rust worm hits-and things go down hill. I made a jack pad like the UK Ebay item by cutting a groove in a hockey puck-Dan Mpls. Mn.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
^ LOL

I think a "saddle" type jack stand would be better on a frame rail than a circle-topped one. The interface with the circle would be at a slight angle, as the car isn't level, and the low spot would grind in. The saddle style one can put in perpendicular to the frame rails and get a solid interface, usually.

Pinch weld lift points exist mostly for the cheezy emergency tire changing jack, so people don't have to stuff that too far under the car. I feel better with my car on unibody "frame rails" when I'm under it-- rocker panels rust from the inside out and could lead to trouble.

As discussed before, one needs two lift points per corner: one for the jack, one for the stands. I put the stands under the better feeling one.


The ESCO stands have rubber pads on them which theoretically would prevent too much digging into the metal, plus I usually end up with the car sitting level for most of the job since I rotate tires at the same time as oil changes.

But that's a good point that while the car isn't level there'd be more contact area with traditional stands. Hmm...
 
On the Jeep, the only thing low enough to jack from are the axles. However, I've put stands under the unibody rails when I needed the suspension drooped and it didn't dent the unibody rails at all.
 
varies per car. some unibody rails seem to handle ok, so flex in a bit. nissan pathfinder i had did NOT like it and I had to put a block in there to spread it out.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm



On some Audis, there are actually jack pads pre-installed at the factory:

IMGP1641.jpg



Interesting because my older VW Golf (1996) has that metal tab reinforcement and area for that plastic block, but none of the VW models during those years in the USA came with it. I wonder if they did and do in Europe? Seems crazy to delete this on vehicles since it probably only costs them pennies to make those plastic pieces.
 
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