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#3257745 - 01/23/14 05:18 PM 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles
Chris B. Offline


Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 3377
Loc: Colorado
Here is the latest on my V6 Accord using Mobil 1 0w20 OEM filters and 5,000 miles on oil. Not a drop of oil has burned in the VCM engine. First number from the left was the factory fill with 8,396 then 5,000 miles on M1 and again 5,000 on M1. 20,000 total miles on engine. Blackstone is the lab:

ALUMINUM 16, 5, 4
CHROMIUM 1, 0, 0
IRON 39, 11, 9
COPPER 160, 28, 22
LEAD 3, 0, 1
TIN 0, 0, 0
MOLYBDENUM 388, 91, 78
NICKEL 1, 0, 0
MANGANESE 9, 1, 1
SILVER 0, 0, 0
TITANIUM 0, 0, 0
POTASSIUM 7, 0, 1
BORON 144, 65, 50
SILICON 94, 14, 11
SODIUM 13, 0, 4
CALCIUM 1741, 1123, 1062
MAGNESIUM 68, 774, 726
PHOSPHORUS 654, 634, 574
ZINC 787, 686, 618
BARIUM 1, 0, 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210 F 47.9, 48.4, 49.2
cSt viscosity @ 100 C 6.64, 6.79, 7.03
Flashpoint 380 F, 395, 375
Fuel <0.5, 0.5, 0.5
Antifreeze 0, 0, 0
Water 0, 0, 0
Insolubles 0.3, 0.3, 0.4

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#3257762 - 01/23/14 05:38 PM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: Chris B.]
Zaedock Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 3936
Loc: Massachusetts
Nice report, but why would you run Mobil 1 to only 5K? Any conventional could do the same thing.
_________________________
2016 KIA Optima SXL 2.0L Turbo/2012 F150 Ex-cab 5.0L
1992 YJ "The Heep"/2004 Malibu Maxx LT
1975 Ford Bronco/1959 Willys CJ5/20XX Custom rock crawler

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#3257765 - 01/23/14 05:41 PM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: Zaedock]
Chris B. Offline


Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 3377
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Nice report, but why would you run Mobil 1 to only 5K? Any conventional could do the same thing.


The Honda V6 VCM is known to be very hard on oil and following the MM is considered to be bad advice. Plus 5k is a safe OCI for this engine easy to remember and oil is very cheap!

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#3257830 - 01/23/14 07:04 PM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: Chris B.]
dernp Offline


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 504
Loc: S/W Ontario, Estero, Fla.
I agree. Do what makes you sleep at night. Well done.
_________________________
2014 Honda Civic 1.8 28k TGMO 0w20
2013 Honda CR-V 2.4 AWD 48k TGMO 0w20
2012 Elantra 61k PPPP 5w20
2011 Tundra 5.7L 48K PP 5w20



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#3257840 - 01/23/14 07:12 PM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: Chris B.]
gregk24 Online   content


Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 5371
Loc: FL, USA
Looking good my friend. Good choice keeping the OCI at 5000 miles.
_________________________
2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
50,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
30,xxx miles
Dealer oil / OEM filter

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#3257868 - 01/23/14 07:29 PM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: Chris B.]
Zaedock Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 3936
Loc: Massachusetts
Running a nice syn like Mobil 1 to 5,000 miles is "A" choice, but not a good choice, IMO. If you're going to test anyway, add TBN to your report and you'll likely see you can go further.
_________________________
2016 KIA Optima SXL 2.0L Turbo/2012 F150 Ex-cab 5.0L
1992 YJ "The Heep"/2004 Malibu Maxx LT
1975 Ford Bronco/1959 Willys CJ5/20XX Custom rock crawler

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#3258217 - 01/24/14 04:54 AM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: Chris B.]
901Memphis Online   content


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 12702
Loc: Northern Kentucky
Where's the copper coming from?
_________________________
2002 Buick Century 130k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - Edge 0w40 + Fram XG3980
1998 Nissan Altima 337k - 5MT - M1 HM 5w30/Fram Ultra XG7317+MOS+ATP 205

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#3258510 - 01/24/14 10:44 AM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: Zaedock]
gpshumway Offline


Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 417
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Nice report, but why would you run Mobil 1 to only 5K? Any conventional could do the same thing.


Find me a conventional 0w20, That's the weight the OM calls for.

With the potential sludge issues with the VCM V6, I'm inclined to agree with the OP's 5,000 mi OCI choice.

Interesting to see how much M1 0w20 has sheared in your engine. It does about the same in my R18 Civic. The PDS indicates it's an 8.7 cSt oil with a 2.7 HTHS, but the UOAs say otherwise. Looking at the PDSs you'd think there was little reason to choose M1 5w20 over the 0w20, but the 5w20's greater shear stability means that in practice it's actually quite different from the 0w20. PU 5w20 is even more shear stable.

Good thing Hondas don't mind thin oil. Thanks for sharing!
_________________________
2007 Subaru WRX
2011 Honda Civic EX

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#3259217 - 01/25/14 02:35 AM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: Chris B.]
Chris B. Offline


Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 3377
Loc: Colorado
So do you guys think the Pennzoil Ultra 0w20 would be a better choice? I can get it at my local Wal-Mart for the same price as M1 0w20.I'm thinking it would make any difference over the life of the car. What do you think?

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#3259222 - 01/25/14 03:12 AM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: Chris B.]
901Memphis Online   content


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 12702
Loc: Northern Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
So do you guys think the Pennzoil Ultra 0w20 would be a better choice? I can get it at my local Wal-Mart for the same price as M1 0w20.I'm thinking it would make any difference over the life of the car. What do you think?



Do you mean PU 5w20? PU doesn't come in 0w20, but PP does. I would probably rather have the M1 0w20 over PP 0w20.
_________________________
2002 Buick Century 130k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - Edge 0w40 + Fram XG3980
1998 Nissan Altima 337k - 5MT - M1 HM 5w30/Fram Ultra XG7317+MOS+ATP 205

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#3259247 - 01/25/14 05:44 AM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: Chris B.]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 6934
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I think "better" needs to be defined by you ChrisB. ...

"Better" in a sense that something makes you sleep well at night? Only you can decide that.

"Better" for your engine? Well - that is easy to find. Run several trials (min 3 per choice) with several lubes and see how they stack up against UA macro data; see my "normalcy" article.

"Better" for your wallet? That will be the lube that provides statistically sound wear data, for the least cost.

I cannot tell you where your mind is at for "feeling" your way in this decision; that is completely up to you and an emotional reaction to "wants" (desires). But I can tell you that any syn for 5k miles is a total waste of money, and not providing any significant benefit over a decent conventional lube. Data and facts trump rhetoric and mythology every time.



Edited by dnewton3 (01/25/14 05:45 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#3259570 - 01/25/14 11:36 AM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: dnewton3]
Chris B. Offline


Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 3377
Loc: Colorado
Oil is cheap so "better" in terms of wear protection. Normally I agree that 5,000 on full Syn is a waste of money but not on the VCM V6. It is well documented that this engine is very hard on oil and it degrades fast.

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#3259572 - 01/25/14 11:37 AM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: 901Memphis]
Chris B. Offline


Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 3377
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
So do you guys think the Pennzoil Ultra 0w20 would be a better choice? I can get it at my local Wal-Mart for the same price as M1 0w20.I'm thinking it would make any difference over the life of the car. What do you think?



Do you mean PU 5w20? PU doesn't come in 0w20, but PP does. I would probably rather have the M1 0w20 over PP 0w20.


I swear I saw 0w20 PU at my local store. I'll double check next trip back this week.

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#3260609 - 01/26/14 02:19 PM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: Chris B.]
gpshumway Offline


Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 417
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
So do you guys think the Pennzoil Ultra 0w20 would be a better choice? I can get it at my local Wal-Mart for the same price as M1 0w20.I'm thinking it would make any difference over the life of the car. What do you think?



Do you mean PU 5w20? PU doesn't come in 0w20, but PP does. I would probably rather have the M1 0w20 over PP 0w20.


I swear I saw 0w20 PU at my local store. I'll double check next trip back this week.


It's possible, but I doubt it. Shell is revamping their product line and possibly combining the Platinum and Ultra products into "Ultra Platinum" or some such, so it's theoretically possible that you have a store that put the new product on the shelves before Shell announced it. Again, I highly doubt it.

Platinum 0w20 is about halfway between the other Platinum oils and Ultra though. It's the only Platinum grade with it's own unique PDS and it has an 8.9% NOACK volatility, about halfway between the Platinum 5w20 and Ultra 5w20.

There's nothing on paper that would lead one to believe PP 0w20 is better than M1 0w20, your UOA doesn't show any elevated wear metals or other reason to switch either. The engine will likely outlast the seats and the bodywork on either oil. The only advice I would give you is don't switch frequently between them.
_________________________
2007 Subaru WRX
2011 Honda Civic EX

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#3260816 - 01/26/14 06:12 PM Re: 2012 Honda Accord V6 M1 0w20 5,000 miles [Re: Chris B.]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 6934
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Oil is cheap so "better" in terms of wear protection. Normally I agree that 5,000 on full Syn is a waste of money but not on the VCM V6. It is well documented that this engine is very hard on oil and it degrades fast.



Ah, yes, the old "cheap insurance" defense. Well known in the BITOG Court of Lubes ...


Please show me the "well documented" evidence that proves you need syn. So the engine may be "hard" on oil; so what? How does that translate into actual wear and ROI? Show me data that undeniably details how, in 5k miles, there is a statistical difference in wear outside "normal" sigma deviation between your choice of lube and a decent conventional oil.


Edited by dnewton3 (01/26/14 06:13 PM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
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