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#3256498 - 01/22/14 04:21 PM MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 3492
Loc: Massachusetts
Doing a subjective shake test in the bottle I can't tell the viscosity difference between room temp and 15deg f.

A custom brew could be made to make some pretty good cold weather oil.
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#3256505 - 01/22/14 04:27 PM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: turtlevette]
Brent_G Offline


Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 456
Loc: Aberdeen SD
I don't see a reason to ever use mmo to thin the oil for winter. Unless you live in the arctic circle there are plenty of off the shelf oils that will do just fine deep into subzero.

Just my .02
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#3256574 - 01/22/14 06:02 PM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: Brent_G]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 3492
Loc: Massachusetts
There is a video on the M1 site that shows the pouring of 5W-30 at -40f. Even though it does pour, the oil in that state is not going to protect the engine.

I was thinking for my application a couple of classic cars that I need to move around in the winter running just a few minutes at a time or going for a quick cruise around the neighborhood. Thinning the oil enough so that I'm at or near operating viscosity at cold start. This would minimize wear on these engines that are cold started many times during a winter. As long as I don't get the oil up to operating temp. When the cars are used for longer trips, suck the thin mix out and save it for next winter.

Probably overthinking things. Isn't that what you guys do here?
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#3256602 - 01/22/14 06:38 PM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: turtlevette]
Brent_G Offline


Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 456
Loc: Aberdeen SD
I don't know, I just started my truck at -30 and it didn't explode. Why wouldn't the oil protect as long as it's flowing?

The engine will only take as much as it needs, the oil film will be there and protecting what it needs to.

The bigger concern is things are designed to fit at operating temp, and things are a bit looser when cold. That is why piston slap goes away as everything warms up. Also some anti wear parts of the additive pack do not activate until certain temps.

What engines are we talking about here? I don't argue for a minute that thinner oil at cold temps can only be beneficial, but I don't like diluting a fully formulated oil with something that has little to no antiwear properties.


Yes this forum is great for over thinking things, and thus why I am posting lol. But sometimes the best answer is the simplest.
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#3256625 - 01/22/14 06:57 PM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: turtlevette]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 22169
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There is a video on the M1 site that shows the pouring of 5W-30 at -40f. Even though it does pour, the oil in that state is not going to protect the engine.

Yes, you're overthinking things. wink I've used 5w-30 conventional in -40 many times over my life and will continue to do so.
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#3256628 - 01/22/14 06:59 PM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: turtlevette]
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 6561
Loc: southeast US
If one is serious about protection of classic cars, one would garage them and preferably not start/drive in winter at all.
If that is not possible, block heater before each start would give the best protection.

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#3256661 - 01/22/14 07:21 PM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: turtlevette]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 14339
Loc: OH
It would be better to arrange your storage so that you don't need to move these cars around during the winter.
Running them briefly only loads the oil with fuel and mositure, which thinning the oil with MMO or Mazola won't help with.
Better to leave these machines resting on a battery tender until you can get them out and really drive them.
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#3257007 - 01/23/14 03:31 AM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: friendly_jacek]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9783
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
If one is serious about protection of classic cars, one would garage them and preferably not start/drive in winter at all.
If that is not possible, block heater before each start would give the best protection.



Exactly.
Don't start them unless you plan on driving them. Condensation builds up,oil never gets to operating temp,fuel dilution etc.
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#3263376 - 01/29/14 03:37 AM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: turtlevette]
Lapham3 Offline


Registered: 12/23/13
Posts: 840
Loc: Minnesota
Yep-I use the Ampco oilers in my 50 year old cars and block heaters in everything-the old stuff and the newer cars=all is good Dan Mpls. Mn.

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#3263381 - 01/29/14 04:05 AM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: friendly_jacek]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 28131
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
If one is serious about protection of classic cars, one would garage them and preferably not start/drive in winter at all.
If that is not possible, block heater before each start would give the best protection.


Add to that a pre-luber which pumps oil to the engine internals before the key is even turned on to start the car.
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#3263480 - 01/29/14 08:02 AM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: demarpaint]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
If one is serious about protection of classic cars, one would garage them and preferably not start/drive in winter at all.
If that is not possible, block heater before each start would give the best protection.


Add to that a pre-luber which pumps oil to the engine internals before the key is even turned on to start the car.


Just turn the heater off. Blocking the heater should only be necessary if the vehicle lacked a thermostat... that's really a classic!

As for pre-lubers, the problem may be space. Pre-lubers require space to mount and modification to the original plumbing. On the bright side, many classic cars to have open space under the hood.

You could achieve good start-up lubrication results with MoS2 in the oil.
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#3263982 - 01/29/14 03:43 PM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: dave5358]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 28131
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
If one is serious about protection of classic cars, one would garage them and preferably not start/drive in winter at all.
If that is not possible, block heater before each start would give the best protection.


Add to that a pre-luber which pumps oil to the engine internals before the key is even turned on to start the car.


Just turn the heater off. Blocking the heater should only be necessary if the vehicle lacked a thermostat... that's really a classic!

As for pre-lubers, the problem may be space. Pre-lubers require space to mount and modification to the original plumbing. On the bright side, many classic cars to have open space under the hood.

You could achieve good start-up lubrication results with MoS2 in the oil.


Space is an issue for sure, but as you said most classics have plenty of that. I managed to mount a pre-luber to a wheel well of my E-150, tightly packed for sure, but I got it in. For classics that sit for a very long time I think it's a good idea.
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#3264001 - 01/29/14 03:55 PM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: turtlevette]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9783
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There is a video on the M1 site that shows the pouring of 5W-30 at -40f. Even though it does pour, the oil in that state is not going to protect the engine.

I was thinking for my application a couple of classic cars that I need to move around in the winter running just a few minutes at a time or going for a quick cruise around the neighborhood. Thinning the oil enough so that I'm at or near operating viscosity at cold start. This would minimize wear on these engines that are cold started many times during a winter. As long as I don't get the oil up to operating temp. When the cars are used for longer trips, suck the thin mix out and save it for next winter.

Probably overthinking things. Isn't that what you guys do here?





This makes no sense.
Even with the oil being thinner the engine is cold,and hasn't gone through the thermal expansion once it's running.
Don't start a stored car. It's just that simple. If you aren't going to drive it then don't start it.
Thinning the oil makes no sense. Especially considering you're diluting the additive package of the oil.
Add a can of mos2 to the oil and put 500 miles in so the mos2 plates the internals,then cold start wear will be lessened.
But the whole mmo thinning oil idea is hilarious at best.
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#3264083 - 01/29/14 05:20 PM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: Clevy]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 3492
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Clevy


This makes no sense.
Even with the oil being thinner the engine is cold,and hasn't gone through the thermal expansion once it's running.
Don't start a stored car. It's just that simple. If you aren't going to drive it then don't start it.
Thinning the oil makes no sense. Especially considering you're diluting the additive package of the oil.
Add a can of mos2 to the oil and put 500 miles in so the mos2 plates the internals,then cold start wear will be lessened.
But the whole mmo thinning oil idea is hilarious at best.


Why not? As I already said above starting with a viscosity close to operating would be beneficial.

MMO is hilarious but mos2 is serious?

I find this board full of people with chips on their shoulders. Advise is all over the map. Very few have the technical knowledge to back up their opinion.



Edited by turtlevette (01/29/14 05:21 PM)
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#3270938 - 02/05/14 02:19 AM Re: MMO is imperceptably thicker in cold [Re: Clevy]
Dean85 Offline


Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 142
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
If one is serious about protection of classic cars, one would garage them and preferably not start/drive in winter at all.
If that is not possible, block heater before each start would give the best protection.



Exactly.
Don't start them unless you plan on driving them. Condensation builds up,oil never gets to operating temp,fuel dilution etc.


I agree with friendly and clevy. I think you are doing more harm to the engine by these short run times, even if you add mmo. I do not see that you are going to get the viscosity to equal that of operating temps by using an additive. I have been storing an 85 Camaro for 20 years, generally from Nov - mid April. I start it 2-3 times with in that time, getting it up to operating temp. I do this to circulate fresh fuel into the carb, along with the other fluids in the engine and to charge the battery.You can do whatever you want no matter what anyone else says. It is your choice if you take other opinions into consideration or not.


Edited by Dean85 (02/05/14 02:29 AM)
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