Mobil 1 filter equivalent to Toyota 90915-20004?

[btanchors]

Hello everyone,

My Lexus 2003 GS-430 came from the factory with a Toyota 90915-20004 filter. Toyota no longer makes these, and I'm not impressed with their replacement part. Fram lists a PH-3614 for this car (I'm not going to use a Fram, but that's what it calls for). Mobil lists an M1-102 for this car. Both the M1-102 and the PH-3614 are significantly smaller than the original filter that came with the car. I'd really like to use the Mobil 1 filter, but would rather have something as large or larger than the original equipment size. The problem is, I can't seem to find any detailed data on the Mobil 1 filters online anywhere - Is there a Mobil 1 filter that is equivalent to the M1-102 in all ways except size?

 

[FL-400S]

I am using a Motorcraft FL-400S ($2.77 at walmart) on my Tercel which specs a fram 4967 but can also fit a 3614. A FL-400S is the same diameter but longer than a 3614. So I am using a filter about 4X bigger than a 4967 on my tercel. My V6 Tundra spec's a 3614 Fram. Right now Im using an STP 3614, but next oil change will be a Motorcraft FL-400S.

 

[btanchors]

Curtis -

I like the 90915-20004 - The problem is, they aren't making them anymore. I think the newer Toyota filters that replace the 90915-2004 are not as good from the reports I've seen, mostly on the Clublexus website. Other replies on this thread mention that the motorcraft FL-400A would fit the bill. I looked on the Wix website - The specs for the FL400A equivalent in the Wix brand (Model 51516) and the M1-102 equivalent in the Wix brand (51348) have identical specs - Thread size identical, Bypass valve opens at same pressure, gasket is this same for OD, ID, and thickness, and OD of the filter as a whole is the same - the only difference is the length. It appears that the Mobil 1 M1-209 is the same size filter. I plan to cut open both an M1-102 (what the catalog calls for my car, which is smaller than OEM) and the M1-209 (which is larger in length but all other specs identical). If they do appear identical except for the M1-209 having a larger media, then I plan to try the M1-209...What possible things could go wrong with this approach?

 

[Tones]

I assume you probably have thought of this but I will point it out anyway. I asked Wix about the 51515 filter for my V8 Tundra--the same application you have for your Lexus. I liked the silicon ADBV. Basically I was told that using a non-speced filter will void the Wix warranty. I know you hear this a lot on this site, but this was their reply. I imagine that, even if there were obvious flaws in the filter, they can deny any responsibility citing it was the wrong application.

There is a lot of experimentation that goes on on this site. However, you take responsiblity for experiments into your own hands. There are so many good filters to choose from that are correctly specified, that there is really no reason not to use one.

Like John, I use Toyota OEM filters. I am using the -YZZB5 from Japan. I like them because they seem to flow really well. They have the same or very similar media as the -20004, but a little less of it. Even they are getting harder to find locally. The Thailand filters are becoming more common. The part number is -YZZD3. There must be more profit margin on these.

 

[FL-400S]

Tones, that is interesting. You're talking about voiding the Wix warrany on their products, right? One thing I am concerned about is voiding my Toyota warranty (4 years left on drivetrain)if I have to take it in and its got a ford filter on it. I can experiment with my '94 tercel--no warranty, no problems. I just use Delco's on my Chevy because they are cheap and easy to buy anyway, and only 6 months left on the warranty. Pure 1 filters are a good choice and they are often only $4 at Meijer.

Oh, and I've heard that a WIX 51515 is exactly the same filter as a Toyota TRD filter for V8 tundras, but with different paint on the outside.

 

[newtoncd8]

Just curious why you don't like the Toyota OEM filter. Check out the following URL, believe the 90915-20004 gets real good reviews:

http://mkiv.com/techarticles/parts/toyota_filter/

 

[Bill Kapaun]

quote:

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Originally posted by FL-400S:
..One thing I am concerned about is voiding my Toyota warranty (4 years left on drivetrain)if I have to take it in and its got a ford filter on it....

---

Just keep one of your old dirty Toyota filters handy!

One place where people mess up when the run an engine out of oil and ruin it, is they'll fill it with fresh oil and tow it to the dealer. You have to fill it with "used" oil so it won't be obvious (G).

 

[Mike_dup1]

You can't always tell from appearance weather the size of the filter is important factor. A larger filter can actually be worse than a smaller filter. Its the quality of the filter media that important, not the size of the filter.

What you see is not always what you get

 

[JohnBrowning]

Well I think you will be fine with any non-Fram filter. Baldwin,Donalson,Napa Gold,Wix,Delco,Duesch,STP and Walmart Brand, Puralator,M1 are all ecellent filters. I do not think that the brand of full flow filter matters much. I think that good flow and reliable construction are the primary keys to look for.

Toyota makes a good filter but I do not think it is required for long life. I am currently useing OEM filter for the first time since 1988 and have never had a problem even when I used to use those horrable radioactive orange can filters.

I do not think I would use M1 filter. It is not that it does not do a good job. It is just too expensive and doubtful that the extra money spent will produce staticly cleaner oil. From limited testing I have seen on this site their was not a significant reduceing in wear metals of solids with the M1 as compared to the Tech2000 Walmart brand.

If memory serves me right we have not see a signifacant reduceing with reguard to wear with any of the filters. We have seen better flow and better numbers for solid's though with the following: Baldwin filters, Donoldsons Stratopores and Amsoils SDF line.

I get my funky TOyota filters for about the same price as a Delco or Delphi filter so I am going to keep useing them so long as the price stays down. I have no problem running Walmart brand filters though either.

It is the general opion of alot of board member that a full filter is mostly a hold over apendage from the dark ages. It is mostly their to prevent further damage in a catostraphic even. If you live in a third world type enviroment it might be of more use to you. We have seen the best results in catching and traping wear particles when a good flowing filter is used on the full flow side and a bypass filter is used on the return side.

I have made this post a bit over simplistic so please no one flame me just add to or correct my omissions!!!!

Sorry So Long!!!

 

[Tones]

Even better still--don't live your life based on lies and deceit in the first place. Its called taking responsibility for your own actions. This world would be a much better place if we all did that. If you feel you have to hide something, chances are you should not be doing it.

Sorry I'm not trying to sound preachy here, just believe we should all be people of integrity, myself included.

[ May 02, 2004, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Tones ]

 

[Pitbull]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tones:
Even better still--don't live your life based on lies and deceit in the first place. Its called taking responsibility for your own actions. This world would be a much better place if we all did that. If you feel you have to hide something, chances are you should not be doing it.

Sorry I'm not trying to sound preachy here, just believe we should all be people of integrity, myself included.

---

Your right and btanchors needs to use the OEM filter and change the oil and filter based on the manufactures recommendations. This isn't rocket science

 

[Tones]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitbull:
Your right and btanchors needs to use the OEM filter and change the oil and filter based on the manufactures recommendations. This isn't rocket science

---

I don't understand where you got this from. I never said he had to do that. However, if a person damages his car from lack of maintenance or improper maintenance then he should acknowledge that and not try to cover it up to try to make someone else pay for it.

Are you one of those people that believes he can drive around and never change his oil and then expect the dealer to fix it when it is all sludged up?

 

[Bror Jace]

I would use a Wix or Baldwin/Hastings filter and wouldn't think twice about voiding the warranty.

Check the Wix site for a cross reference:

http://www.wixfilters.com/filterloo...o=90915-20004&imageField.x=24&imageField.y=12

It comes up that 51348 is the one. NAPA Gold is the same filter and its number is most likely #1348 (NAPA drops the "5") You can see all the measurements & specifications for this filter on their site as well so you can see how it stacks up against your OEM filter.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Pitbull]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tones:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitbull:
Your right and btanchors needs to use the OEM filter and change the oil and filter based on the manufactures recommendations. This isn't rocket science

---

I don't understand where you got this from. I never said he had to do that. However, if a person damages his car from lack of maintenance or improper maintenance then he should acknowledge that and not try to cover it up to try to make someone else pay for it.

Are you one of those people that believes he can drive around and never change his oil and then expect the dealer to fix it when it is all sludged up?

---

Tones what are you drinking??? I said your previous statement about taking responsiblity for your own actions was "right" then "I" said btanchors should use the OEM filter and follow the manufactures recommended oil change interval. I am sure there are other filters he could use that would be as good but why take chances? Hope you now understand what I was trying to communicate.

 

[Tones]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitbull:
Hope you now understand what I was trying to communicate.

---

Yes, sorry, I mistook your statement as actually implying the opposite of what it said. My mistake.

And Bror, I agree the 51348 is probably the correct one. At least it is for my Tundra. The Wix site shows the 51348 for the 2002 and 2004 Lexus 4.3L V8. For some reason, it skips the 2003.

 

[RavenTai]

Is your Lexus filter mounted vertically or horizontally like most other Toyota's?

if it is horizontal you should stick with the small filter, horizontal filters can drain and a larger filter will take longer to fill and get oil to the working parts, this would overshadow the real but slight benefits that a larger filter provides


1FZ-FE users have reported shorter "startup rattle" with the smaller filter (horizontaly mounted filter threaded into the side of the block)

my '96 Lx450 calls for:
90915-20004, 90915-20002 (small with the unusual media) 90915-YZZB5 (small standard media) all of the above Japanese made filters have been discontinued and replaced by the rather plain but functional Thailand made 90915-YZZD3 (Wix 51348, Fram Ph16
15600-41010 (large, standard media wix 51515, Fram PH8A) extremely common more American sized filter fits well on the 4.5l will thread anywhere the 20004 does but you will need more room in the filter area to accommodate the larger diameter and length

the TRD 00602-90915-004 or 00602-90915-007 are reported to be the same as the 20004, not sure witch one or where I would find them :/

 

[mrdctaylor]

You can still get the YZZB5 filters off the internet. Check it out:

http://store.yahoo.com/romaniatoyotaparts/v8engine.html

I ordered several of these a while back. I know there was some question about the bypass valve, but I think it was all cleared up. I've been running these since my first oil change on my 2002 Toyota Tacoma except for 1 change where I used an AMSOIL filter. There was no noticeable difference between the two (but of course, I wouldn't necessarily notice something like that).

David

 

[Bror Jace]

RavenTai: ... horizontal filters can drain and a larger filter will take longer to fill and get oil to the working parts, this would overshadow the real but slight benefits that a larger filter provides. 1FZ-FE users have reported shorter 'startup rattle' with the smaller filter (horizontaly mounted filter threaded into the side of the block)."

Interesting. I hadn't consider this. Where is the filter mounted on the 1FZ-FE block? Up high?

On my Nissan QR25DE 2.5L, the horizontal mount is down really low ... maybe nearly as low as the drain plug. I can't see the oil draining out of this filter. There seems nowhere for it to go.

Since the smaller filter for this application is about the size of a large shot glass, I've opted for the larger filter ... which still isn't terribly impressive.

--- Bror Jace

 

[RavenTai]

shot glass

on the 1FZ it is on the block about half way between the head and oil pan, well above the level of the oil in the pan, even if the ADBV works oil is still free to drain out the center hole and down to the crank and out the bearings leaving the filter less half full, if the ADBV does not work it can drain down to the level of the lowest inlet hole

unless yours is below the oil line in the pan or has some upward plumbing to trap the oil it will drain also but your "large” filter sounds about like the Toyota "small" filter

the large Toyota filter is actually the same size as the old school American filters and was used on V8 fords and Chrysler's I would estimate just shy of a quart of space to fill

 

[btanchors]

ekpolk,

Many thanks for the photo. I cannot find detailed technical data on the Mobil 1 filters, so I crossed referenced the M1-102 and M1-209 filters on the Wix site. The data raises as many questions as it answers:

M1-102 (Wix 51348):
Thread: 3/4-16
Bypass Valve opens between 8-11psi
Anti-Drainback valve: Yes
Gasket Outer Diameter: 2.734
Gasket Inner Diameter: 2.430
Gasket Thickness: 0.226
Outer Diameter of filter: 2.921
Height: 3.404

M1-209 (Wix 51516):
Thread: 3/4-16
Bypass Valve opens between 8-11 psi
Anti-Drainback valve: Yes
Gasket Outer Diameter: 2.734
Gasket Inner Diameter: 2.430
Gasket Thickness: 0.226
Outer Diameter of filter: 2.921
Height: 4.828

So, at least judging from the Wix website, ekpolk is correct - The filters appear to be identical except for height. So, this raises the next question:

There is indeed room for the larger filter on my 2003 GS 430. In fact, the filter that came on the car FROM THE FACTORY was a Toyota 90915-20004, which in fact was about the same size as the M1-209. So then WHY wouldn't Mobil spec the M1-209 as the replacement for my GS 430? What other possible differences could there be between the M1-102 and M1-209?

By the way, Tones also raises a good point about possibly voiding the warranty by using a filter that wasn't the model recommended, but at this point, I'm still interested in the answer...