Driving On Icy Roads With 4 W.D.

Status
Not open for further replies.
4wd on pure ice, nothing helps. Tire tread doesn't matter, weight doesn't matter, 4wd doesn matter.

HOWEVER, if there is ANY traction at all, 4wd is multiples better in starting, stopping, and manuevering.

All four corners tied together makes a sure-footed platform in any situation. Anyone that has never experienced driving 4wd in different conditions, well, don't speak like you know anything.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Competence is the best thing to have. AWD, winter tires....etc...just enhance a competent driver's ability.


And the increased traction and control of 4wd greatly increases the operational envelope.

Humans will always test the envelope of whatever they drive, some will know where it is while others don't have a clue there even is such a thing.
 
I know it doesn't help with stopping distance, but putting my truck in 4x4 does give it a much more confident feeling when braking under snowy or icy conditions.

People always love to throw the 4x4 doesn't help with braking, but it sure helps when your stopped at an intersection and you need to quickly merge onto a busy street, or to quickly clear an intersection when you realize that the guy who's supposed to yield to you is sliding and won't be able to stop before hitting you.
 
Physics- on pure ice- 4wd has more mass so more likely to lose control. In cases where there is patchy ice- I am sure 4wd helps a lot. In corners- the mass will work against you like when you spin out and totally lose control.
 
From what I've observed, 4X4 does not help drivers avoid spinning out and ending up in the median or off the shoulder. Just helps them crawl their way back out after screwing up.
crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible
4wd on pure ice, nothing helps. Tire tread doesn't matter, weight doesn't matter, 4wd doesn matter.

HOWEVER, if there is ANY traction at all, 4wd is multiples better in starting, stopping, and manuevering.

All four corners tied together makes a sure-footed platform in any situation. Anyone that has never experienced driving 4wd in different conditions, well, don't speak like you know anything.


Studs.

I remember once I got the equivalent of studs for my shoes. While everyone else was sliding around, these little carbide tips were digging into the ice and keeping me from sliding around.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Warstud
and does tire tread matter on ice?

Yes, proper winter/ice tires matter more than AWD/4WD.


+1. Very few people understand how much difference good winter tires can make. 4WD/AWD is not helpful once you're moving.
 
Originally Posted By: DAC17
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Warstud
and does tire tread matter on ice?

Yes, proper winter/ice tires matter more than AWD/4WD.


+1. Very few people understand how much difference good winter tires can make. 4WD/AWD is not helpful once you're moving.


Good tread depth with aggressive tread design is pretty much mandatory for winter conditions. Throw in 4wd with those two and it'll beat a 2wd for starting, stopping, and turning every time.

Four wheel accelerating power slide for the win!
 
Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible

Good tread depth with aggressive tread design is pretty much mandatory for winter conditions. Throw in 4wd with those two and it'll beat a 2wd for starting, stopping, and turning every time.

Four wheel accelerating power slide for the win!


It doesn't help with stopping though. The only way 4x4 would help with stopping is if someone has a standard transmission and is using a low gear to slow themselves down, which is rarely the case.
 
Originally Posted By: DAC17
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Warstud
and does tire tread matter on ice?

Yes, proper winter/ice tires matter more than AWD/4WD.


+1. Very few people understand how much difference good winter tires can make. 4WD/AWD is not helpful once you're moving.


Disagree on AWD having owned few Subaru's and then a Acura with torque vectoring>>>
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible

Good tread depth with aggressive tread design is pretty much mandatory for winter conditions. Throw in 4wd with those two and it'll beat a 2wd for starting, stopping, and turning every time.

Four wheel accelerating power slide for the win!


It doesn't help with stopping though. The only way 4x4 would help with stopping is if someone has a standard transmission and is using a low gear to slow themselves down, which is rarely the case.

True 4wd does help as sort of mechanical ABS. All cars have huge front brake bias, so you will always lock a front tire first before your back tires approach maximum braking, especially on ice and snow. 4WD equalizes tire speeds on both axles so both axles can achieve maximum braking. On the Tracker I'm sure it cuts braking distance by 10-20% but it does sacrifice some stability as now both ends lose grip together allowing the back end to slide sideways. Probably some of the reason so many 4wd cars end up in the ditch... A fwd with lawn dart handling give you a warning with locking the fronts first so you can back off the pedal without any sort of steering input required. A slightly sideways SUV at 60mph on ice or snow isn't too tolerant of an over correction and takes some guts/skill not to panic and drive out of it.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible
4wd on pure ice, nothing helps. Tire tread doesn't matter, weight doesn't matter, 4wd doesn matter.


Erroneous - You can easily find instrumented testing with the Blizzak WS70, X-Ice Xi3, and Ultra Grip Ice WRT which prove tires do indeed matter.
 
You could only manage 35-40 mph on the highway here this week, sheets of ice covered in drifting snow. I drove in the "rough" lane in 4x4 when everyone else stuck to the ice only lane for some reason. I may have if in a car, but a 5,600 pound truck with 600 extra pounds in the bed seems to get better traction in the rough snow and ice.
Also this truck has rear wheel ABS to help with the fishtailing when braking.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible
4wd on pure ice, nothing helps. Tire tread doesn't matter, weight doesn't matter, 4wd doesn matter.


Erroneous - You can easily find instrumented testing with the Blizzak WS70, X-Ice Xi3, and Ultra Grip Ice WRT which prove tires do indeed matter.


Sorry, I was thinking of my truck. There's no way I could afford Blizzaks for the truck and so it didn't even register on my screen. Yes, tens of thousands of tiny sipes would grab any irregularity for traction. Wet ice and glare ice would have few of those, though.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible

Good tread depth with aggressive tread design is pretty much mandatory for winter conditions. Throw in 4wd with those two and it'll beat a 2wd for starting, stopping, and turning every time.

Four wheel accelerating power slide for the win!


It doesn't help with stopping though. The only way 4x4 would help with stopping is if someone has a standard transmission and is using a low gear to slow themselves down, which is rarely the case.

True 4wd does help as sort of mechanical ABS. All cars have huge front brake bias, so you will always lock a front tire first before your back tires approach maximum braking, especially on ice and snow. 4WD equalizes tire speeds on both axles so both axles can achieve maximum braking. On the Tracker I'm sure it cuts braking distance by 10-20% but it does sacrifice some stability as now both ends lose grip together allowing the back end to slide sideways. Probably some of the reason so many 4wd cars end up in the ditch... A fwd with lawn dart handling give you a warning with locking the fronts first so you can back off the pedal without any sort of steering input required. A slightly sideways SUV at 60mph on ice or snow isn't too tolerant of an over correction and takes some guts/skill not to panic and drive out of it.


This. Unless you've felt it, it's hard to understand. When my truck is in 4wd and I slam on the brakes it's a stopping monster. Not at all like stopping in a FWD or 2wd car. All four corners tied together is more than the sum of the 4 corners.
 
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: DAC17
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Warstud
and does tire tread matter on ice?

Yes, proper winter/ice tires matter more than AWD/4WD.


+1. Very few people understand how much difference good winter tires can make. 4WD/AWD is not helpful once you're moving.


Disagree on AWD having owned few Subaru's and then a Acura with torque vectoring>>>


I agree with you, and was too quick to write. What I was thinking about was for the "average" driver.
 
Oh ya! fun video. As a 16yo in Northern Michigan I learned to drive on winter roads. A $25 46 chevy 4d, with a roaring 85hp. by spring I was the best ice driver around...
grin2.gif


Wayne
 
It would all be great if we lived in a perfect world, but things get a little more complicated for some of us. I live rural and on gravel roads. Sure, I could use a winter specific tire in the winter, but what about when it warms up and my gravel road becomes a mud bath. A better AT type tire works best in that. Ah, but alas, then the next day the temps drop, things freeze up, and it snows. But a couple of days later, back to the mud again.

Winter specific tires are really poor performers in mud. AT type have their weaknesses related to ice. But most folks do not have the luxury of changing tires each day as the conditions change, so they have to select a tire that gives the best all around for what they operate their vehicle in. I have to settle for AT tires, year round. Too much diversity, too often, to be able to use a season specific type of tire.
 
4WD is far more forgiving than RWD, but a little less than FWD for icy highway cruising. 4WD can kick the back end out a little at times, but as long as you stay on the power it will just straighten out and go wherever you point the front wheels. FWD will just continue in a straight line if too much power is applied, regardless of what is done with the steering wheel. It doesn't get any easier to control than that. With 4WD or FWD on an icy, reasonably straight highway, I just set the cruise and relax while the vehicle dances around underneath me. With RWD, caution has to be exercised to catch any power oversteer that might occur.

A couple weeks ago I was driving my buddy's 3/4-ton Dodge in changeable winter highway conditions; about a 150 mile drive. For most of the trip, the road was fairly clean with just blowing snow moving across it, so I couldn't put it in 4WD. That part was somewhat tense, even with over 200 studs per tire, as I was constantly correcting for the nasty cross winds and also had to be prepared in case the light rear end hit some slippery stuff and kicked out. But there was one nice stretch where the road was coated in a consistent sheet of ice so I just threw it in 4WD, set the cruise, and enjoyed the break.

We had made the trip to pick up a vehicle. It really wasn't very nice nice of him to stick me with that thing while he drove his new-to-him '05 Legacy GT on brand new Nokian Hakka 7s!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top