Upper cylinder lube vs. oil additives

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So, we like additives to extend our engine life, keep them running at top performance, and maybe even get some extra mileage with our fuel. the question is do we use additives and ignore an upper cylinder? Is a ucl as effective as an additive? And is there any evidence or proof that an upper cylinder lubricant is effective at lessening wear and keeping your engine in top shape? For what it's worth I'm using ceretec/Mos2 with good oil. As well, I've been using Lucas ucl for the last year. I want to get at least a half a million kms out of the Prius. So far so good.... Thanks in advance...
 
It DOES NOT MATTER what we think about UCL's.

To answer your question usefully, you'd need the statistics for long term wear-related engine failure modes for the Toyota Prius.

If upper-cylinder wear was a (or the) predominant cause of failure (requiring an engine rebuild) then UCL would be worth further consideration.

I'd bet money that no one is going to post that information on here. I suspect even Toyota may not have that information, but they'd be the people to ask.
 
Originally Posted By: dino33
So, we like additives to extend our engine life, keep them running at top performance, and maybe even get some extra mileage with our fuel. the question is do we use additives and ignore an upper cylinder? Is a ucl as effective as an additive? And is there any evidence or proof that an upper cylinder lubricant is effective at lessening wear and keeping your engine in top shape? For what it's worth I'm using ceretec/Mos2 with good oil. As well, I've been using Lucas ucl for the last year. I want to get at least a half a million kms out of the Prius. So far so good.... Thanks in advance...


Who is we??

Use high quality synthetic oil and forget the additives.
 
Many board members run TC-W3 2-stroke oil and/or MMO in their gas as an UCL. I experimented a bit myself with MMO, TC-W3, and a MMO/TC-W3 mix in the gas and saw no real improvements in mileage or motor oil consumption (some say running an UCL results in a better ring seal and therefore less motor oil pushing past the rings into the combustion chamber). I gave up completely with the GP and am finishing off my current supply of TC-W3, but may pick up again with some MMO dosing in both just to see what happens.

I don't know that anyone has made claims of better engine longevity from use of an UCL. Clams have mostly been related to fuel efficiency, smooth engine running, and/or improved butt dyno results.
 
As far as upper cylinder lubes go I cannot say for sure whether they affect wear in any measurable way however I still use tc-w3 in my fuel just in case. It costs pennies to treat a tankful and hasn't hurt yet. I've never had a fouled plug or anything.
Tc-w3 has detergents in it and because it's an oil it may help fuel pumps and rubber seals exposed to the drying effects of ethanol.
Either way its cheap and in my mind its not hurting anything.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
As far as upper cylinder lubes go I cannot say for sure whether they affect wear in any measurable way however I still use tc-w3 in my fuel just in case. It costs pennies to treat a tankful and hasn't hurt yet. I've never had a fouled plug or anything.
Tc-w3 has detergents in it and because it's an oil it may help fuel pumps and rubber seals exposed to the drying effects of ethanol.
Either way its cheap and in my mind its not hurting anything.


I assume you're running much less than a 50:1 ratio as used in outboard motors. Does it produce that stinky exhaust that outboards have? What is the threshold?
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
As far as upper cylinder lubes go I cannot say for sure whether they affect wear in any measurable way however I still use tc-w3 in my fuel just in case. It costs pennies to treat a tankful and hasn't hurt yet. I've never had a fouled plug or anything.
Tc-w3 has detergents in it and because it's an oil it may help fuel pumps and rubber seals exposed to the drying effects of ethanol.
Either way its cheap and in my mind its not hurting anything.


+1
 
I hate to admit it, but I tried MMO in the gas in my 2003 Jaguar X-Type 2.5L V6. I was experiencing a rough idle and started thinking about poor valve sealing, sticky rings, balky injectors and so on. Considering that MMO has been known to help in such matters, I tried it. Success!

I added nearly a quart of the stuff to a 15 gallon tank. The engine was nearly instantly smooth. And, it clearly remains so many tanks later.

What happened? I really don't know. And, while I prefer scientific methodology and reasoning over "old wives tales", I can only speculate on the reasons why it worked. I will refrain from doing so.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette


I assume you're running much less than a 50:1 ratio as used in outboard motors. Does it produce that stinky exhaust that outboards have? What is the threshold?



Personally, I'm running 1 oz to every 5 gals of petrol... 600:1
 
I put MMO in my Bug's gas because it makes the fuel pump quieter. The pump is INCREDIBLY loud otherwise. Any cleaning or other benefits are simply a plus.

I'll be trying TCW3 shortly. Its a lot thicker so I imagine it would do more to quieten the pump. The Pennzoil kind is cheaper than MMO so if it does the job I'll switch.

I've been putting Lucas UCL in my Polaris, mostly to use it up as it did absolutely nothing for quieting the fuel pump in the Bug. I can't really tell any difference using vs. not using it.

I found a box of mothballs and I've been putting them in the brown van, one per fill-up, to see if the old-timers may have been onto something. The thing seems to be smoother but no improvement in MPG, or anything. Could be my imagination or the naphtha may have cleaned out a little something in the carburetor.
 
A blended mix of 1 oz, per gallon of Gas, for TC-W3 and 3 ounces of Chevron Techron at every fill up or every other fill up. It's very important to use this mix when the Winter Gas is sold at the pump. This mix will lube everything between the gas tank and the upper cylinder.

Don't forget to use ONLY TC-W3 since this engine oil is "ash-less" and burns clean. The 3 ounces of Chevron Techron Fuel System cleaner at every fill up is just a maintenance dose and combined with the TC-W3 it fills up my empty 6 ounce bottles that are used for dosing at fill up time.

I've been using this combo for 3+ years now and I've never had a problem.
 
Originally Posted By: Finz
Originally Posted By: turtlevette


I assume you're running much less than a 50:1 ratio as used in outboard motors. Does it produce that stinky exhaust that outboards have? What is the threshold?



Personally, I'm running 1 oz to every 5 gals of petrol...
600:1


not to split hairs, and at these concentrations it hardly makes a difference, but 1 oz to 5 Gal makes it 640:1
the first week i tried this ratio(week between Christmas and new years), the car did seem to run smoother, and get incrementally better mileage, but i also was able to park in the garage that week, vs outside...

personally i'm using the Valvoline tcw-3(it's what the store had) $4.66/qt, which at 640:1 (gas:eek:il), works out to about 2.7 cents /gallon of gas.
 
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Doesn't the upper cylinder get lubed by the crankcase oil? Tolerances are engineered into engines and designed for a little oil to get past the rings and lube the cylinder (yes all engines burn a little oil). I've never used any UC lube and I get lots and lots of miles out of my vehicles. The expense and cerebral fortitude that went into the engineering of my engine far out weigh the benefit of any UC lube i could add IMO.
 
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I have never tested any fuel additive, by test I mean gathered and analyzed the before and after data.

Further I only know of one circumstance of such testing and the additive used was Marvel Mystery Oil.

I know that a respected retired Houston NASA Mechanical Engineer, tested a car on a dynamometer with and without MMO. The result was a 5 Horse Power increase using the MMO, not a show stopping result to me.

I did not participate in or witness the testing and did not commence using MMO after hearing the results. I am not sure if the testing was performed more than once, what controls were in place and if it was repeatable, in other words met scientific rigor.

Anyone have access to a test facility?
 
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Doesn't the upper cylinder get lubed by the crankcase oil? Tolerances are engineered into engines and designed for a little oil to get past the rings and lube the cylinder (yes all engines burn a little oil).

Basically, no - not unless your rings are passing oil or your valve stem seals are leaking, neither of which is really desirable. Some very old engine designs (e.g. L-head and flat head engines) needed upper cylinder lubrication to keep the valves functioning. It is/was a popular addition to stationary engines - pumps, oil rigs, etc. With UCL, these utility engines will last just about forever.

Most modern engine designs don't require it, but some form of upper cylinder lubrication may still provide some benefit - slightly increased compression, for example. UCL creates a better seal for the top compression ring. Some engines are prone to burning exhaust valves. One fix is to rebuild the engine with better valve material, but UCL may solve this problem using the existing valves.

Depending on how you input the UCL, you may get some cleaning or other benefits as well. Another responder said it lubricated and quieted his fuel pump.
 
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Doesn't the upper cylinder get lubed by the crankcase oil? Tolerances are engineered into engines and designed for a little oil to get past the rings and lube the cylinder (yes all engines burn a little oil).

Basically, no - not unless your rings are passing oil or your valve stem seals are leaking, neither of which is really desirable. Some very old engine designs (e.g. L-head and flat head engines) needed upper cylinder lubrication to keep the valves functioning. It is/was a popular addition to stationary engines - pumps, oil rigs, etc. With UCL, these utility engines will last just about forever.

Most modern engine designs don't require it, but some form of upper cylinder lubrication may still provide some benefit - slightly increased compression, for example. UCL creates a better seal for the top compression ring. Some engines are prone to burning exhaust valves. One fix is to rebuild the engine with better valve material, but UCL may solve this problem using the existing valves.

Depending on how you input the UCL, you may get some cleaning or other benefits as well. Another responder said it lubricated and quieted his fuel pump.


Nice write up Dave.
 
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