A pro argument for using plastic tank radiators

[spackard]

I was looking up Gates Green Stripe today, having heard about it decades back but never reading much about it other than racers at the time used it (I still have some 30 year old Green Stripe on the shelf).

From Gates:

Gates Green Stripe hose is built to resist the effects of electrochemical degradation (ECD), the primary cause of most hose failures in the field.

According to Gates engineers, ECD is a condition where metal (such as a radiator stem), hose and liquid coolant (water and ethylene or propylene glycol antifreeze) form an electrical cell, similar to a battery.

The result is a reaction that causes micro-cracks within the hose tube that allow the coolant to attack the hose reinforcement. This eventually weakens the yarn material.

Accelerated by high under-the-hood heat and constant flexing, ECD produces a pinhole leak or will cause the hose to burst before it has reached its expected service life.

The polymers in Gates Green Stripe hose also provide a better bond to stems and connectors. This greatly reduces cold coolant leaks, and EPA concerns for coolant seepage at maintenance facilities and parking areas.

http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=1113&location_id=1175

Of course, there's always the other end of the hose, but my subject says radiators, not engine blocks. The interesting part is the failure due to ECD.

 

[440Magnum]

So... what protects the plastic tank from ECD?

;-)

Plastic tanks have advantages. They don't get pinhole leaks due to corrosion and flexing at the joints, they don't have solder bond failures at the core-to-tank junction, etc. But they make the radiator non-repairable when they do fail.

I'm niether pro- or anti-plastic tank radiators. They're another way to do the same job, and they fail a little differently. That is all.

 

[zzyzzx]

The fact that it's not repairable is enough to prevent me from buying a plastic tank radiator. That and the plastic tank radiators tend to leak after a few years. I have one that's been leaking for more than 12 years now. I don't have to add much, but it's still very annoying.

 

[Zaedock]

Pastic tanks are typically cheaper, so it's six of one, a half dozen of another.

The plastic tank in my trail rig has actually held up fairly well and it's been in for 6-7 years.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
The fact that it's not repairable is enough to prevent me from buying a plastic tank radiator. That and the plastic tank radiators tend to leak after a few years. I have one that's been leaking for more than 12 years now. I don't have to add much, but it's still very annoying.


You can't even repair the newer all metal ones, so what is the difference? You physically might be able to, but with all of the environmental restrictions it is cost prohibitive. I was quoted $750 to rod out a radiator in a 60s Mustang by a local shop, they said more than half of that was a disposal fee for the cleaning chemicals.

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
The fact that it's not repairable is enough to prevent me from buying a plastic tank radiator. That and the plastic tank radiators tend to leak after a few years. I have one that's been leaking for more than 12 years now. I don't have to add much, but it's still very annoying.


You can't even repair the newer all metal ones, so what is the difference? You physically might be able to, but with all of the environmental restrictions it is cost prohibitive. I was quoted $750 to rod out a radiator in a 60s Mustang by a local shop, they said more than half of that was a disposal fee for the cleaning chemicals.


I was thinking that if I had an all aluminum one that sprung a leak, I would braze on some aluminum myself. In so far as paying someone else to repair a radiator, if I could not do that myself.

 

[SHOZ]

If you plastic sided tanks are leaking you can usually recrimp the aluminum tabs that hold it against the foam seal. A vice grips is all you need and it works very well. In fact any new plastic sided radiator I use I do this before putting it in.

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
If you plastic sided tanks are leaking you can usually recrimp the aluminum tabs that hold it against the foam seal. A vice grips is all you need and it works very well. In fact any new plastic sided radiator I use I do this before putting it in.


Have you ever successfully repaired an old leaking tank like this?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
If you plastic sided tanks are leaking you can usually recrimp the aluminum tabs that hold it against the foam seal. A vice grips is all you need and it works very well. In fact any new plastic sided radiator I use I do this before putting it in.


Have you ever successfully repaired an old leaking tank like this?


We have. Everything we own (except old toys) has this type of radiator in it.

It doesn't work every time, but it does work, and if it does it saves a bunch over a quality replacement.

You need to be able to pressure test the radiator out of the car to develop the proper technique. Too much force is not a good thing, too little and it'll still leak...

 

[SHOZ]

Yes I have. And I have also put in new tanks that leak from day one.

You want to set the vise grips just right. Start loose and gradually adjust them to the correct pressure.

The sign that you can fix one of these if the tank leaks when cold but stops when the pressure builds. As the pressure builds the tank end is pressed tighter against the foam/silicon seal.

 

[PandaBear]

To me with today's labor cost it doesn't make sense to repair an all metal radiator anymore unless you cannot buy a new one cheap.

The old plastic ones, if design right and speced right by the OEM, should last 10 years and 120k miles at least, at around $120 or less to most of the cars I've seen. I don't see a point in repairing when automated manufacturing can build a new one cheaper and the old one can easily be recycled.

The ones I have all died due to the plastic cracking, so no, I do not believe recrimp the metal to plastic fingers will work.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Radiators have become virtually a lifetime part in our fleet. We very seldom service ANY cooling system parts at all these days...

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: spackard
I was looking up Gates Green Stripe today, having heard about it decades back but never reading much about it other than racers at the time used it (I still have some 30 year old Green Stripe on the shelf).


Gates RACING actually makes a blue colored radiator hose for some limited car makes/models which I believe is made from multiple layers of silicone(??).

Sadly though, I hear they are discontinuing the line due to low sales.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
I was quoted $750 to rod out a radiator in a 60s Mustang by a local shop, they said more than half of that was a disposal fee for the cleaning chemicals.


The prices for radiator repair will vary by region.
I recently had a radiator rebuilt for my '71 Chevy C90. This truck has a Detroit 6-71 diesel engine in it and the radiator weights close to 200 lbs. The guy replaced just about everything in the radiator except the top and bottom of it. In other words, the core was completely replaced. It cost me a little over $1,000 and his shop gets visited by the EPA inspectors just like any legitimate shop.
He also quoted me a price of just a little over $100 for taking the tank apart on my '71 Cougar, rodding it out and then re-soldering it. (It currently has a small leak at the top of it)
He also showed me some of the work that he gets from California. This guy has customers that ship him radiators via UPS. The last project that he showed me was from a Ford vehicle that pre-dated the model T. This was a piece that had to be museum quality and he was making the radiator from scratch.

 

[Cujet]

My Jaguar X-Type plastic radiator is now on it's 11th year and 140,000 miles in hot and humid South Florida.

I don't recall owning any all metal radiators that lasted that long. And, in fact, I've replaced more all metal rad's and heater cores than plastic ones in my 35 years of automobile ownership. Nothing is more annoying than a pinhole leak in a heater core, when on a road trip, 600 miles North of Florida, in the winter time!!!

Certainly, the plastic ones are often dirt cheap on ebay. And, good quality too.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: spackard
I was looking up Gates Green Stripe today, having heard about it decades back but never reading much about it other than racers at the time used it (I still have some 30 year old Green Stripe on the shelf).


Gates RACING actually makes a blue colored radiator hose for some limited car makes/models which I believe is made from multiple layers of silicone(??).

Sadly though, I hear they are discontinuing the line due to low sales.

Not sure if they still do, but for a while, they would make ANY hose in their catalog out of silicone! Liz and I run them on our cars (GN and Caddy, respectively) and they are basically lifetime parts.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Radiators have become virtually a lifetime part in our fleet. We very seldom service ANY cooling system parts at all these days...


That's been my experience with the new type radiators too. They seem to last as long as the car does.

 

[JZiggy]

I have seen glycol exposure data for certain glass-filled high temperature nylons that are often used in plastic radiator tanks. Yes it does take a specific type of plastic to handle this task. Unfortunately in many cases the mechanical properties of this plastic begins to degrade after 5-7 years. That would explain the ruptures that occur in these tanks.

 

[hattaresguy]

In my experience plastic tank radiators tend to last at least 10 years but more often than not are still perfectly fine around the 20 year mark. Generally the upper tanks around the radiator hose crack, as the plastic ages.

Also generally they are pretty cheap to replace.

Radiators get full of [censored] both inside and out, so its really not a bad idea to throw a new one in every decade or so. This way when your sitting in traffic in NYC on a 105 degree August day with the AC cranking...you don't get to have the entertainment of watching the temp needle slowly creep up.

 

[tom slick]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Radiators have become virtually a lifetime part in our fleet. We very seldom service ANY cooling system parts at all these days...


This is my experience as well. The last time I replaced a radiator was 14 years ago and it was brass construction. Neither myself or my family have replaced a radiator in any of our current vehicles and they all have mileage in the 6 figures.