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#3217028 - 12/15/13 04:57 AM MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ?
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1484
Loc: GA.
I believe MMO is only tested to a 3,000 mile OCI - just curious if anyone has run a 10% to 20% ratio MMO to oil for a 4,000 to 5,000 mile / 4 month OCI ? Any potential issues ? Plan to use for a mild winter cleaning and easier start up with PYB - expect to dump it by April and switch over to QSUD , PP or M1 and extend the OCI.
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#3217068 - 12/15/13 07:09 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
Char Baby Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 8749
Loc: Western NY
IIRC, MMO even states that you can use upto 25% for an OCI. IDK for what length of time but, PYB should be enough all by itself as would just about any of todays SN/GF-5 oils. Unless you have sludge/varnish issues!

It's typicaly recomended to run a short(er) OCI(< /- 3k) when running a cleaning OCI...and then run a cheap(er) oil, e.g. W*M ST or similar for ~2K miles as a rinse OCI before running the Synthetics that you mentioned for exteneded OCI's. smile


Edited by Char Baby (12/15/13 07:22 AM)
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#3217082 - 12/15/13 07:48 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 26781
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
I believe MMO is only tested to a 3,000 mile OCI - just curious if anyone has run a 10% to 20% ratio MMO to oil for a 4,000 to 5,000 mile / 4 month OCI ? Any potential issues ? Plan to use for a mild winter cleaning and easier start up with PYB - expect to dump it by April and switch over to QSUD , PP or M1 and extend the OCI.


I've used it a few times for up to 5000 miles over the winter with no problems at about a 20% ratio. Having said that if you feel or know the engine is dirty I'd run it 3,000 miles and dump it.
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#3217102 - 12/15/13 08:19 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 18000
Loc: Upstate NY
No.
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#3217120 - 12/15/13 08:38 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 26781
Loc: NY
OP you can search the UOA section there are a few UOA's with the addition of MMO that were very good. You can get an idea from there how long the MMO was in service. Having said that in an engine that is reasonably clean a 4,000-5,000 mile OCI is not a problem, just check the oil level because it can flash off in some cases and require topping up. If you have to top up, top up with oil or oil mixed with 20% MMO if you feel you want to maintain the ratio.

If you suspect the engine is dirty, or had a ticking lifter I'd change the oil out at 3,000 miles.
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#3217150 - 12/15/13 09:23 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 18000
Loc: Upstate NY
I would not run something that has poor lubricity (MMO) 3000 or 5000 miles just to get some cleaning benefits. There are better ways to clean a dirty engine.
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#3217198 - 12/15/13 10:06 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
JC1 Offline


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 2018
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
I believe MMO is only tested to a 3,000 mile OCI - just curious if anyone has run a 10% to 20% ratio MMO to oil for a 4,000 to 5,000 mile / 4 month OCI ? Any potential issues ? Plan to use for a mild winter cleaning and easier start up with PYB - expect to dump it by April and switch over to QSUD , PP or M1 and extend the OCI.


Chris,

Just use M1 or PP now for the cleaning. Have you looked under the valve cover to see what it looks like?

Regards, JC.
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#3217204 - 12/15/13 10:11 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
toneydoc Offline


Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 1498
Loc: War Eagle
I would listen to Donald. Here in the deep South our start up temps get somewhat cold but not terrible cold. Just use a light oil such as 0w20 or 5w20 that cleans and call it an oil change and skip the MMO. Just my pennies worth.
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#3217387 - 12/15/13 12:59 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1484
Loc: GA.
Under the valve cover is light sludge to heavy varnish - may just go with a straight PYB 5W30 until April then change over to M1 , QSUD or PP ... I'm only looking at a 4,000 mile / 4 month OCI now .
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#3217391 - 12/15/13 01:08 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 26781
Loc: NY
Let us know how that goes.
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#3217686 - 12/15/13 06:28 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
sw99 Offline


Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 1803
Loc: Colorado
On my previous Subaru (EJ22), I used MMO for over 5K at a 20-25% ratio. Wish I had pulled the valve covers before so that I could have compared them. The top end was very clean. I would like to think that the MMO had something to do with this.

I was doing a MMO run like that every few OCI's after I bought the car. After that maybe every 5 or so. Sold the car with 230K.

Here is an under valve cover pic -



Here is a controversial pic before I put the new gasket and cover back on. I made the mistake of spraying it off the top end and sealing surface with brake cleaner before taking the pic. Some people whined about it being dry and suggested that I did more external cleaning or who knows what. I can assure you that it was just as clean before the pic. The brake cleaner just blew off the residual oil that was on before -



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#3217868 - 12/15/13 09:07 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
sw99 Offline


Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 1803
Loc: Colorado
Forgot to add that I just did a 20% ratio with 5w20 in my Corolla to start the varnish cleaning process. I plan on 5K this time also.

I buy the MMO gallons at my local WM. $16 and some change so it's a pretty good deal. Just bought two more the other day to add to the pile of goodies.
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#3218120 - 12/16/13 06:29 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1484
Loc: GA.
Wow ! ... Now that's clean .
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#3218136 - 12/16/13 07:07 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 26781
Loc: NY
Those pics remind me or a 200+K mile Toyota a college buddy of mine had. He ran 20% MMO at every oil change, something his dad did dating back to the early 1950's IIRC. I helped him change a VC gasket when we were in college in the late 1970's and his valve train was spotless.
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#3218315 - 12/16/13 10:17 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 6603
Loc: Mahzurrah!
I put a mere 8 oz in our aging Lumina a few weeks ago. Checked its oil yesterday and it has turned black already. Happens every time I put MMO in a dirty engine.
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#3218704 - 12/16/13 04:10 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
steve20 Offline


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3281
Loc: Morris County NJ
Over the last 35 years or so, I've run MMO the entire OCI on many vehicles. Always had excellent results with MMO.
"FEAR NO DONALD"-he read one article, and plays the 'lubricity' card every chance he gets. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I just know from decades of experience MMO works, and works well
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#3218833 - 12/16/13 06:13 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: steve20]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 26781
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: steve20
Over the last 35 years or so, I've run MMO the entire OCI on many vehicles. Always had excellent results with MMO.
"FEAR NO DONALD"-he read one article, and plays the 'lubricity' card every chance he gets. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I just know from decades of experience MMO works, and works well


I see I'm in good company, Cheers2the only difference is I have a few years on you. LOL

Should be seek shelter? hide
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#3218863 - 12/16/13 06:52 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
sw99 Offline


Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 1803
Loc: Colorado
Surprised all the haters have not chimed in yet...

I'm down to two additives that I use, MMO and Lubegard.
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#3218900 - 12/16/13 07:21 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 26781
Loc: NY
^^I use Lubegard too.
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#3221008 - 12/18/13 08:06 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: demarpaint]
steve20 Offline


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3281
Loc: Morris County NJ
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
^^I use Lubegard too.


and I just bought 3 bottles of LG for the oil !!!
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#3223858 - 12/21/13 03:59 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
JavierG Offline


Registered: 06/11/11
Posts: 1142
Loc: Fresno, CA
MMO is a very worthy additition to any OCI. I use it in my Legend every OC.
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#3223868 - 12/21/13 04:10 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: demarpaint]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9782
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: steve20
Over the last 35 years or so, I've run MMO the entire OCI on many vehicles. Always had excellent results with MMO.
"FEAR NO DONALD"-he read one article, and plays the 'lubricity' card every chance he gets. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I just know from decades of experience MMO works, and works well


I see I'm in good company, Cheers2the only difference is I have a few years on you. LOL

Should be seek shelter? hide


Yep. Donald's an expert on products he's never used.
I've got an inverse oiler on my charger. The car runs like a dream.
As far as mmo in the oil goes I've never,ever read of a failure when the instructions were followed.
I use it in the oil on new to me vehicles and when I'm first starting servicing a new vehicle.
It can't hurt,or hasn't yet for me anyways.
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#3224047 - 12/21/13 07:22 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1484
Loc: GA.
I've pretty much decided on my son's new to him Trailblazer ('02 4.2L I-6 , 7 qrt sump with ONLY 80K miles on it ) to use 5 qrts. PYB , 0.5 qrt of left over Shell SN rated conventional oil and finish with 1.5 qrts. of MMO . Add a Wix oil filter and run for 4,000 miles / 4 months . That ratio of MMO will provide approx. 20% - 21% ratio MMO to oil and mixed with the PYB and Shell conventional (both good cleaning oils in their own right ...) should be great over the next 4 months until Spring . * My favorite thing about adding MMO to oil is how fast an engine will turn over in the cold - it's noticeably faster with MMO added . Come Spring I'll find what ever DEXOS 1 rated oil I can find on sale and service the vehicle with it until the wheels fall off .
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#3224165 - 12/21/13 10:22 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
nleksan Offline


Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 587
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
I am deathly allergic to sludge (it makes me feel sick, lol), and I have had good results using 15-20 percent MMO in the crank, but I only do it in the Winter and in my non-BMW's (I am not risking a problem with such expensive motors, regardless of how small the risk may be). That includes the notoriously sludge-tastic Toyota 5SFE ('00 Camry w 298k), Ford 3.0L Duratec V6 (177k in 98 Contour), and a number of other similar motors.
I have yet to see just MMO make a difference in terms of removing sludge, but it it does very much seem to halt it's progression.
I even used it in the 3SGTE I4 Turbo (I had a last MY Toyota MR2 second gen Turbo, and it was pushing over 2x factory boost...), a few older BMW motors including a few M20 2.5L I6's, an M30, two M62's (one being a tu)... A friend used it during winter in his B5 S4 w KKK K04 turbo's and a lot of other engine work and seeing as how those motors Love to explode fantastically should you so much as look at them sideways, the fact that he got 50k or so out of it trouble free (@ 314awhp) using MMO all winter makes me think it's likely quite safe.

I consider it a great first step in terms of "harshness" of the solvent/detergents used to clean up an icky motor. It seems to soften up carbon and sludge enough that when you add a healthy dose of Seafoam or the like, it's FAR less likely to "chunk the gunk" into the pickup screen or anywhere else it's not welcome.
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#3224543 - 12/22/13 11:28 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 6603
Loc: Mahzurrah!
MMO will often make an engine run a bit quieter, start a bit easier in cold and it will clean gently too, its not harsh at all.

The few UOA's I've seen with MMO in the crank have been as good or better than without it. Someday I need to do one of my own but I don't use it all the time.
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#3225678 - 12/23/13 04:20 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: KCJeep]
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1484
Loc: GA.
I almost had the urge to add Seafoam - but decided against it in favor of MMO .
Speaking of MMO , my WM raised the price $2.00 to now over $15.00 per gallon .
I still believe in what I plan to do - but after this Winter OCI of newly acquired used vehicle (Trailblazer) I am going to use GF-5 / SN rated PYB , MS5K , QSAD , etc. and change as required without adding MMO to crankcase (balance of MMO can go in the gas where it can perhaps do some cleaning and provide a bit of UCL) .
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#3225826 - 12/23/13 06:31 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
I almost had the urge to add Seafoam - but decided against it in favor of MMO.

Under penalty of excommunication, or worse ;-}

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Speaking of MMO , my WM raised the price $2.00 to now over $15.00 per gallon

Do you have a Menards store nearby? They are the cheapest MMO supplier in our area. Or try a Farm and Fleet or Tractor Supply.
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#3225937 - 12/23/13 08:23 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9782
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
I almost had the urge to add Seafoam - but decided against it in favor of MMO .
Speaking of MMO , my WM raised the price $2.00 to now over $15.00 per gallon .
I still believe in what I plan to do - but after this Winter OCI of newly acquired used vehicle (Trailblazer) I am going to use GF-5 / SN rated PYB , MS5K , QSAD , etc. and change as required without adding MMO to crankcase (balance of MMO can go in the gas where it can perhaps do some cleaning and provide a bit of UCL) .


Mmo is 10 bucks a litre here at Walmart. 15 bucks a gallon sounds like a gift.
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#3225978 - 12/23/13 09:06 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1484
Loc: GA.
I do have a Tractor Supply store near by - will check what a gallon of MMO goes for there ...
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#3231795 - 12/30/13 11:19 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
Shaman Offline


Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 2330
Loc: Frankfort, Kentucky
Chris, I'd like to know what you figure out on cheapest MMO. Just picked up a NTM (new to me) car.

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#3231978 - 12/30/13 02:43 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: Shaman]
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1484
Loc: GA.
Shaman : Nearest Tractor Supply I found is not worth it (gas wise) to me , so MMO at WM for $15.00 a gallon is the best deal . Please note , not all WM's sell the gallon size jug - most only sell the quart size .
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#3234762 - 01/02/14 01:58 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
Shaman Offline


Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 2330
Loc: Frankfort, Kentucky
Mine does, but was the TSC cheaper? It's actually on my way home from work.

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#3234787 - 01/02/14 02:21 PM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1484
Loc: GA.
Not sure , I never checked if TSC actually had MMO - WM is 1 mile from my house so I never bothered to look further - sorry .
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#3238100 - 01/05/14 10:17 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
JavierG Offline


Registered: 06/11/11
Posts: 1142
Loc: Fresno, CA
WM is cheapest my area as well. Even though Donald thinks it should stay on the shelf I always buy more when I'm down to my last gallon.
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#3238110 - 01/05/14 10:27 AM Re: MMO For 4K to 5K Mile OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 26781
Loc: NY
In about 4 decades of using it, I don't think I've ever bought a gallon of it. I always managed to get it on sales where 4 qts. where cheaper than gallons.
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