in shame; atf for subaru 4eat and frequency

[91camarosRS]

So, to start out. I have a 2002 Subaru wrx wagon with a 4eat trans. We bought it from original owner with 126kmiles. It now has 220 and about to.go under surgery because of blown head gasket.

Now the scary part.... My walk of shame and worry.
I have never changed the ATF in this car. I cannot find a schedule for it in the manual either?
It looks it has been done as it has rtv all around the pan and a nappa spin on filter.
But unsure when. I have heard bad stories of slipping after changing fluid. So I'm worried about it. Should o be? How do I do the change?Just pull pan and let drip? Money is tight due to motor build so full flush ibwould like to avoid.

What do I put back in? How much?

New to forum. Help a rookie!

 

[michaelluscher]

No worries.....
Many 4EAT owner's have been happy with Valvoline's Maxlife Dex/Merc
Which is available at Walmart's for $16.xx a gallon, And at most other Auto Parts stores.

IIRC, You'll get about 8 quarts out with a filter change, So pick up 2 gallons, Tip: If you want to turkey baster change the PSF, pick up a individual quart or two of Maxlife, Would work well there too.

Part #'s For the filter
Beck-Arnley 0448001
ATP B198
Fel-Pro TOS18684 for the pan gasket

No need for a flush, Just a drain and fill as time goes on.
Good luck on the surgery

 

[pbm]

In that high mileage AT which hasn't had a fluid change in at least 100K I would change the fluid gradually to avoid shocking the system.
I'd probably drop the pan, change the filter and refill with Castrol High Mileage ATF
(which claims to be good in many foreign AT's and is available at Walmart).
I like Maxlife in my Hyundai but it might be too thin in an AT with over 200K. The Castrol has a higher viscosity.

 

[rjundi]

Check this out. The maintenance schedule is not in the manual it is a seperate item. They used to have a pdf of it on the Subaru website(search).

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/subaru_maintenance.html

 

[Petersubaru]

Random thoughts here...I drive a 2001 and recently did both tranny filters…first time for the inside with about 150k/mi on the tranny..actually the internal filter was clean, but probably a good time to clean the magnet…the recommended drain and fill every 30k/mi is the easiest method to maintain the tranny…the RV method for sealing the pan is subaru's way to seal the pan, making it very difficult and time consuming to remove especially if work has to be done to it on the road…I used the wix branded pan gasket from O'reillys (same as B/A)…raise the car keeping it level from side to side …remove both filters...letting it sit over night should remove approx. 8qts..you can use a heat gun to remove the RV from both the tranny and pan very easily..I have access to an Inch/lb torque wrench..set @ 60 inch and go around the pan a couple of times..the external filter you can get from napa, especially for that application..$7-8 and change it out with every drain and fill..no problem with Valolines Dex/Mex or Dex6…before doing anything make sure that the tranny is completely full when checking hot and whatever amount you remove, add the same back in...

 

[i812]

Subaru maint.

Subaru Specs.

 

[91camarosRS]

Originally Posted By: michaelluscher

IIRC, You'll get about 8 quarts out with a filter change, So pick up 2 gallons, Tip: If you want to turkey baster change the PSF, pick up a individual quart or two of Maxlife, Would work well there too.

ATP B198

Good luck on the surgery


What are you talking about here?
Ok so drop pan. Let drain for how long. I will have lots of downtime.(pulling motor)replace
nside and spin on?

Will I need gasket sealer?


I'm building a "modest" daily driver motor. Stage 2 EWG. (full exhaust and pro tune, I will ask for reliability and lower boost over high power)
Should I seriously consider a valve body to hold better?


I'm opening a whole.New can of worms....

 

[supton]

If it has 220kmiles regardless of fluid changes, and now you are hopping up the motor--I have to wonder if you shouldn't anticipate near-term replacement. It had at least one change but now just did 100k with none, it's got 220k total, and now it has to face a whole bunch more heat... And someone gobbered the current pan back into place for a reason.

What is the transmission color right now? Maybe I'm overthinking this, and the fluid is nice and pink, and the trans will be just fine. But I'd be concerned that it was on its last leg already.

 

[lewdwig]

Valvoline Max Life +1

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: pbm
In that high mileage AT which hasn't had a fluid change in at least 100K I would change the fluid gradually to avoid shocking the system.
I'd probably drop the pan, change the filter and refill with Castrol High Mileage ATF
(which claims to be good in many foreign AT's and is available at Walmart).
I like Maxlife in my Hyundai but it might be too thin in an AT with over 200K. The Castrol has a higher viscosity.


No. Not in a 4EAT... at least not in MY 4EAT Subbie.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ge_#Post3181744

In addition, you can't change it all at once... easily and without a flush and I would not do that. The best method is to do a series of D&Fs. I don't know the WRX off-hand but it is likely between 9-9.8 quarts. You can only drain about 4-5qts at a time. Do a drain and fill then drive 100 miles and do it again until whatever percentage you like is left. For me, each drain and fill did 4qts of 9.8. So each interval was about 40%, 65%, 80%, 88% and so on new fluid.

When I got my Subbie I could not tell if the ATF was ever changed and looking at the condition of the spsin-on filter... it might have been never. So at 195K it likely got its first ATF. I used regular Castrol Dex/Merc and it was ok. I used HM and that is when the problems started. TC shutter and shifting delay. I did a D&F with Maxlife and it helped considerably. Another D&F and the issue was almost gone. Maxlife is now my preference, if not, then cheap non-castrol Dex equivalent.

These 4EAT are robust. Seriously robust.

 

[FutureDoc]

Also, if it has the spin-on tranny filter, only use Subaru OEM tranny filters. The others are to a lower standard. Do NOT use an oil filter.

My Legacy has a drain plug, any drain plug on the WRX? Well, my Legacy used to have a drain plug, it now has a Fumoto Valve.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Also, if it has the spin-on tranny filter, only use Subaru OEM tranny filters. The others are to a lower standard. Do NOT use an oil filter.

Absolutely this. ^ ^ ^ ^ ^


Also, do a complete flush and pan drop on it. You're trying to limit any further damage to the tranny so if you're going to do it, do it right. Give it the full shock-treatment and shock it good.


1. Drop the pan, the intake screen and pull the side spin-on filter. You'll get almost double the fluid out this way.

2. Clean the pan and the magnet and add magnets to the pan or a Magnefine to the cooling loop. Magnets in the pan are a little tricky because they need to be kept away from the solenoid. I added about 12 magnets when I did the Forester but had to reposition them due to interference.

3. Valvoline MaxLife ATF (red bottle) is probably the best and cheapest way to go. It is almost shear-proof (unlike Castol) and has fantastic flow-performance.

4. Do a cooling-line flush. Not essential (with a new filter and extra magnets in the loop) but well worth it at this stage.

5. Drain the power-steering. Clean out the reservoir and add magnets to the pot. Fill with MaxLife as well.


The Subaru 4EAT is a very good tranny and part of that is due to the excellent bypass filter they use. If you're planning to get more useful life from the vehicle then do what you can to minimize further damage.

The original Magnefine (not ebay/parts-store Chinese copies) are available here:
http://www.emergingent.com/subpage1Magnefine.htm

More (old?) info here:
http://www.magnefine.com/

 

[901Memphis]

I concur with the quality of Maxlife atf, it has excellent shear resistance.

 

[91camarosRS]

I know that I could be borderline stupid for doing motor modifications.

That said, it seriously gets at me to keep things stock when it can be better. LITTLE things, exhaust,k&n things like that. It kind of snowballed. The motor has a blown headgasket. So due to cost of repair, a 50k jdm motor is going in(same thing but with acvs or Subaru version of vtec,it will/can be ran without this) I want to rid of the pre turbo cat in the uppipe for reliability. When it was very cold, boost would be all over the place potentially destroying motor. So I opt for the external wastegate for control. I have time and the tools to port and polish exhaust manifolds plus wrap all the hotside help boost lag, free up power and help heatsoak. The downpipe I found is around 100. It is catless as well. The midpipe is stock and my muffler right now is a moderate small upgrade(prodrive, I might switch to sti if too loud)

The intakes need switched on these motors so I thought why not delete my tumbler valves, and gasket match and add phenolic spacers. Since intake is off why not replace turbo inlet?

Then lastly, a tune will come. I don't want an off the shelf rich tune. I'm already deciding to keep for long haul as I love this car. So I want a professional, who looks at MY car and MY needs then tunes to suit them. I would like something that is reliable,that is why I do not want anything bigger than a stage 2. No bigger turbo. A professional Subaru tuner for subaru's world rally team,prodrive, had a kit similar to this in terms of power and have gone 195k miles from day one with this.

I never really abused this car like most are. Being an automatic helped me calm down. My wife drove most of the time. I did have fun with entry ramps and waited for car to warm up before ANY type of halfway spirited driving. Transmission temp dummy light never came on.

I will order a oil temp/pressure gauge for engine to further make sure things are ok. And warm before driving hard.

Most of my budget is being stuck in motor. But I don't want to forget trans. Should I buy a trans cooler? Which one?

So, revised; drop pan, replace inside filter and wipe magnet(if equipped) and replace spin on. Let drain overnight, add fel pro gasket without rtv, measure amount taken out, replace with same amount maxlife, drive a few days, pull plug, drain, measure, replace, replace spin on, repeated as necessary. Done?

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: 91camarosRS
Should I buy a trans cooler? Which one?

The OE cooler setup should be fine unless you're towing or doing track-days.


Originally Posted By: 91camarosRS
So, revised; drop pan, replace inside filter and wipe magnet(if equipped) and replace spin on. Let drain overnight, add fel pro gasket without rtv, measure amount taken out, replace with same amount maxlife, drive a few days, pull plug, drain, measure, replace, replace spin on, repeated as necessary. Done?

If the internal filter is a pickup screen then don't replace it, just clean it (if necessary). My 2002 had a screen and did not need cleaning.

Don't have to let it drain overnight, but sure if you have the time.

I did not use a gasket, just typical RTV sealant. Works fine and did not have much trouble disassembling.

Check the dipstick for level along with your fluid measurements.


Diffs?
You didn't mention anything about the diffs but I would certainly give them a flush & cleaning if they've never been changed. A good synth 75w90 should be used. You'll need about two bottles (one front, one rear).

My top pick for the diffs would probably be Motul Gear 300 but I used Amsoil SVG due to availability. Red Line is also good 2nd choice.

Brakes?
I sure hope you didn't ignore the brake fluid like the tranny.

CVJ?
If you've got the time it's a good idea to clean/rebuild the driveline while you're at it. Fresh grease is a must, but new boots is not a bad idea.

 

[91camarosRS]

I dont remember weight but I did rear royal purple, and front Mobil1. Can't recall mileage right now.

Brake fluid....... Until now, I have never seen the point.

Told you thread of shame....

Front cvj drivers is new. Torn boot on right wil replace soon.


Mixed thoughts, shock system or gradually?

 

[FutureDoc]

No shame, just get it done. Shame is being ignorant so recognizing the need is not "shame". I have seen far worse treated vehicles.

You should bleed the brakes and change the brake fluid every 3 years or so depending on the various conditions. Easy to do. You can tell the difference quickly when you change it.

Gradual (IMO). Nothing happens quickly that is good (save acceleration). I prefer the D&F for untended transmissions. Because you are going blind with the conditions of the seals, a flush is the more aggressive option. Pressure on an unknown is risk. D&F will not put that pressure on the system and is the least invasive (and cheapest).

Also check out Lubegard especially if you are worrying about heat. Great product, OEM recommended and one of the better regarded products on BITOG and the other Subaru forums I frequent.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: 91camarosRS
Mixed thoughts, shock system or gradually?

Gradual means more contamination, less protection and less performance. The more metal and grit you get OUT of your system, the better. The more fresh additives you get INTO the system, the better.

It's certainly easier to do multiple drain-N-fills and not pull the pan, hoses, filter, etc. It's also wasteful and gives you less of what you want (longer tranny life, better performance).

The terms 'shock' and 'gradual' were put to use out of fear. People who do not understand how the system works and/or have had (or heard) bad experience. Basically an urban legend.

You can put this experience to use on your next car by getting the transmission (and power-steering, etc) cleaner, sooner. Once they are broken-in you want to get ALL the contamination out for long life and less wear. Most of the harmful contamination in these systems is metallic (gear & bearing wear) and you can pull some of that out with magnets.

Fluid changes & cleaning should be rapid when the car is new and become less frequent (less necessary) as the equipment wears in.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: 91camarosRS
Mixed thoughts, shock system or gradually?

Gradual means more contamination, less protection and less performance. The more metal and grit you get OUT of your system, the better. The more fresh additives you get INTO the system, the better.

It's certainly easier to do multiple drain-N-fills and not pull the pan, hoses, filter, etc. It's also wasteful and gives you less of what you want (longer tranny life, better performance).

The terms 'shock' and 'gradual' were put to use out of fear. People who do not understand how the system works and/or have had (or heard) bad experience. Basically an urban legend.

You can put this experience to use on your next car by getting the transmission (and power-steering, etc) cleaner, sooner. Once they are broken-in you want to get ALL the contamination out for long life and less wear. Most of the harmful contamination in these systems is metallic (gear & bearing wear) and you can pull some of that out with magnets.

Fluid changes & cleaning should be rapid when the car is new and become less frequent (less necessary) as the equipment wears in.


Yes/No.

Gradual does not mean any more or less contamination.

Yes, the more material out of the fluid the better... but that is why you get a new transmission filter for (don't forget magnetic drain pins). Enough D&F will remove just about as much as a flush if done enough. Flushes are more expensive and even use a lot more fluid.

Doing regular D&F and maintaining the filter should require NO flushing. If you to take a well maintained and serviced AT and power flush it, fine (unnecessary but fine), but do not flush a neglected transmission. It is better to let whatever is in there work its way out via a drain or the filter that to use pressure to squeeze it out.

I have not found one shred of evidence that Subaru recommends flushing/power-flushing of their transmissions. Not one reference in my owners or service manual. <- This should tell you something.

 

[91camarosRS]

IIRC there is on nasioc. But only a certain flush machine.