Hope not canister filters suck .I have had enough experience with them to know.
Ford going to canister?
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The new 6.0 Liter Powerstroke Diesel in the Ford Superduties also has a canister style filter, although the engine is manufatured by Navistar/International.
Maybe some of them do, but the only problem with the one on my Ecotech is the exorbitant price for the element, which is sure to come down before long. I actually think it is easier and cleaner. Think of all the problems we see posted here with the spin ons.
With their less waste of materials (costs) and ready inspection of the filter element, I am sure they are the wave of the future. It is time the other manufacturers catch up to GM engineering and make them usable.
[ October 16, 2003, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: labman ]
BMW's had them for over 10yrs now
Yes, but are they ones that suck?quote:
Originally posted by Jason Troxell:
BMW's had them for over 10yrs now
Labman,
The wave of the future is really only a return to the past. The first iteration of oil filters were canister filters. Now we are only returning to the beginning. Its not some great engineering feat by GM, or any other manufacturer for that matter. They are only looking back for "new" ideas, especially so in this instance.
This is just my 2cents,
Dan
[ October 16, 2003, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Dan4510 ]
My point wasn't that any canister filter was a great new idea, but GM actually built one that is easy to change. That is what is an innovation that others don't seem to be able, or more likely, don't care to do. It can't be rocket science. Steve S certainly dislikes them, and I don't blame him from descriptions of O-rings and covers to fight, ruining an O-ring and having to buy another, etc. in other threads I have read Somebody posted a procedure for a Volvo that started with going to the dealer buying an O-ring. I really don't remember much of the 50's versions, maybe vaguely something about trying to get a bolt up through a hole. The manufactures have found another way to save a nickel and maybe earn some brownie points with the greenies. Likely most of the new engine designs will have them.
Hope that your next one is like the Ecotec. It is easy to get to. It is right there below the end of the intake manifold. I spotted it fairly easily once I gave up searching the bottom of the engine for a spin on after I checked all the stupid places I have heard of for them. You do need a socket, likely a 32 mm one. I am using an old 1 1/4'' of my Dad's. I checked Ace Hardware today. They want $4.29 for one. I think some of the cheap oil filter sockets might fit, but the one that fits the PF 47, is too big. The filter elements are expensive and hard to find, well Wally's has Frams.
Once you have found it, and have a socket and element, it is easy enough. A 5 1/2" extension brings it up where you can swing a breaker bar around the couple of turns it takes. The top O-ring stays on the cap to be reused. The element is clipped right on the cap. Pull it off, clip the new one on complete with a little O-ring, and screw it on like a lid on a jar. A turn or 2 with the breaker bar, and you are done. Remember, you are tightening down a plastic cap on an O-ring, snug and quit. It is really easier than any spin on I remember and you are standing up, not under the car. Once I found the thing, I haven't had a bit of trouble in 7 oil changes. Surely the price of the elements will come down.
Hope that your next one is like the Ecotec. It is easy to get to. It is right there below the end of the intake manifold. I spotted it fairly easily once I gave up searching the bottom of the engine for a spin on after I checked all the stupid places I have heard of for them. You do need a socket, likely a 32 mm one. I am using an old 1 1/4'' of my Dad's. I checked Ace Hardware today. They want $4.29 for one. I think some of the cheap oil filter sockets might fit, but the one that fits the PF 47, is too big. The filter elements are expensive and hard to find, well Wally's has Frams.
Once you have found it, and have a socket and element, it is easy enough. A 5 1/2" extension brings it up where you can swing a breaker bar around the couple of turns it takes. The top O-ring stays on the cap to be reused. The element is clipped right on the cap. Pull it off, clip the new one on complete with a little O-ring, and screw it on like a lid on a jar. A turn or 2 with the breaker bar, and you are done. Remember, you are tightening down a plastic cap on an O-ring, snug and quit. It is really easier than any spin on I remember and you are standing up, not under the car. Once I found the thing, I haven't had a bit of trouble in 7 oil changes. Surely the price of the elements will come down.
I remember when they went from canisters to the new and improved spin on filters.
Ralph
Ralph
My new Nissan Diesel has a canister also.
canister accepts a 1/2" drive. Unscrew 4 turns, and this aligns a port in the canister and block, releasing the residual oil into an escape pipe that drains to near the sump plug.
Leave sit for 10 minutes, and it's pretty well mess free.
canister accepts a 1/2" drive. Unscrew 4 turns, and this aligns a port in the canister and block, releasing the residual oil into an escape pipe that drains to near the sump plug.
Leave sit for 10 minutes, and it's pretty well mess free.
This is all kind of funny ...
My 1st car, 65 chevy impala, had a canister filter. To change the filter you unbolted the whole thing, cleaned out the canister, removed the old gasket with a wooden cuticle stick, and bolted it all back together with a new element and gasket. The element had cardboard end-caps, FYI.
And guess what became a big selling item at General Auto Parts downtown? An adapter to convert your engine to take a spin-on filter ...
My 1st car, 65 chevy impala, had a canister filter. To change the filter you unbolted the whole thing, cleaned out the canister, removed the old gasket with a wooden cuticle stick, and bolted it all back together with a new element and gasket. The element had cardboard end-caps, FYI.
And guess what became a big selling item at General Auto Parts downtown? An adapter to convert your engine to take a spin-on filter ...
I have memories of my Dad's old 1952 Ford car. It had a canister oil filter. It was a mess getting the old element out and changing it. I think my Dad's old 1948 Chevy pick-up truck also had a canister oil filter, but my memories of it are not as clear. My Dad had a tendency to buy Chevy pick-up trucks and Ford cars (although he did have a 1962 Rambler American car). Personally I liked Ford pick-up trucks, but not to be contrary to my Dad. I just liked the Fords better. At one time I did own an F-150. Great on country roads.
The canister on my 2003 Ion car is very easy to reach and there is little mess removing the oil filter element. In fact, it is cleaner. And you can inspect the element and see what it looks like.
The canister on my 2003 Ion car is very easy to reach and there is little mess removing the oil filter element. In fact, it is cleaner. And you can inspect the element and see what it looks like.
Like I said, an easy to use canister isn't rocket science, but more wanting to do it.
In college I had a '64 Bel Air small-block V-8 with the cannister-style. I gave praise the day I stumbled on those cheap aluminum adaptors that allowed use of a Ford FL-1 or Fram PH-16 spin-on filter. A '75 Mercedes diesel I owned cannister-style oil filter was even worse than my old Chevy's was as far as I was concerned - and there was no adaptor I was ever able to find. I haven't had any experience with the new generation cannister-style filters, but they sound like an equally or even more convenient alternative (replacement?) to spin-on filters. I do wonder whether there's more to the story than allegedly superior filter engineering and/or convenience, though. Marginally less weight for CAFE considerations? Less reliance on steel use? More environmentally friendly? All of the above?
The cannister filter is both a thing of the past and of the future.
I think they are great and terrible at the same time.
Years ago I remember having cars that had them and those old metal things were clunky, messy, leaky and I ultimatley much prefer the present day spin on jobs.
But then we got a BMW and it's like they re-invented the old clunky cannister in modern terms. MUCH better! And it even eliminates the never ending arguments of who makes the best filtes are at least reduces to simpy the media itself.
That being said, my grips is the hideous prices I pay for BMW filters and am sorta glad I'm not alone as I see similar gripes in this thread. This things should cost a FRACTION of a spin on job!!!! And I wouldn't even begrudge them selling at say the same price perhaps. But 2X? 3X, 4X... this is rediculous. Pay more and get much less.
If they get the price down to where it ought to be I'd get them a warmer reception. To date I've not seen the usual suspects make any either - they offer 'em but they themselves simply get 'em from overseas. Maybe when one finally starts making them on a larger scale and gets the price where it ought to be, others will break rank and give us good prices on the replacement filters.
By the way EVERY replacement filter I've ever bought for the BMW regardless of brand or country of origina always included a little baggy w/ a big fat replacement o-ring for the cannister and a crush washer for the drain plug. Still not worth 3x or 4x what it ought to be though.
I think they are great and terrible at the same time.
Years ago I remember having cars that had them and those old metal things were clunky, messy, leaky and I ultimatley much prefer the present day spin on jobs.
But then we got a BMW and it's like they re-invented the old clunky cannister in modern terms. MUCH better! And it even eliminates the never ending arguments of who makes the best filtes are at least reduces to simpy the media itself.
That being said, my grips is the hideous prices I pay for BMW filters and am sorta glad I'm not alone as I see similar gripes in this thread. This things should cost a FRACTION of a spin on job!!!! And I wouldn't even begrudge them selling at say the same price perhaps. But 2X? 3X, 4X... this is rediculous. Pay more and get much less.
If they get the price down to where it ought to be I'd get them a warmer reception. To date I've not seen the usual suspects make any either - they offer 'em but they themselves simply get 'em from overseas. Maybe when one finally starts making them on a larger scale and gets the price where it ought to be, others will break rank and give us good prices on the replacement filters.
By the way EVERY replacement filter I've ever bought for the BMW regardless of brand or country of origina always included a little baggy w/ a big fat replacement o-ring for the cannister and a crush washer for the drain plug. Still not worth 3x or 4x what it ought to be though.
I’ve not seen one of these “new” canister filters…
Do they have anti-drainback valves?
Can they be prefilled?
Does the cover/gasket/O-ring need periodic replacement?
How easy is clean up of the canister?
Are they more susceptible to handling/shipping damage?
Is it easy to keep the element clean during a change?
Do they have anti-drainback valves?
Can they be prefilled?
Does the cover/gasket/O-ring need periodic replacement?
How easy is clean up of the canister?
Are they more susceptible to handling/shipping damage?
Is it easy to keep the element clean during a change?
Answers inserted by Labman based on my 02 Cavalier.
I know of no GM engines that have built in ADB valves. Could you be confusing this with the the oil filter bypass valves built into GM engines? Perhaps GM has configured/oriented the canister system such that an ADBV is not needed.
Perhaps, but the volumes are no doubt still quite low and Fram may have a sizable tooling bill to pay off. If GM continues to use this system, the volume will increase and other filter manufacturers will likely tool up to produce the filters. Those two would likely combine to drive down the price.
My answers are based on my BMW, where the filter is on top of the engine. The old Chevy V-8's that most people remember had the filter under the engine, making for a big mess. I own a '57 Chevy with a 283 and the "optional" oil filter. A block-off plate was standard back then.
[ October 20, 2003, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Jimbo ]
You are right on the ADBV. I was thinking of the bypass.
As for the volume, GM claims the engine will be produced in very high volume. They have been selling it for several years now. Tooling is capitalized and amortized over many years. How much can it take to mold a couple of plastic end caps?
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