This shows the filtering capabilities of the Honda OEM, much less than I had thought. I've been using the OEM for some time now after switching from M1 filters, looks like it's time to go back to a 'premium' filter. Honda filter specs
Specs for Honda OEM filter
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Ah! You've found the exact info I have been looking for, good job! This info kind of backs up my thoughts on OEM filters and their recommended extended drain intervals (E.G. between 5K and 10K miles).
It seems car manufacturers are specifying oil and filter change intervals of around 7500 miles, give or take a few thousand. In order to go that long between change out it makes sense they would create filters that are less restrictive than the aftermarket ones. This way they would flow more oil for longer intervals before "clogging-up".
I've been hoping this was the case so that they could be used with synthetic oils for extended drain intervals of around 6 to 7 thousand miles. I like the idea of having the stock filter, with the correct bypass settings, and the ability to go for 7K oil changes. Hopefully someone with more experience will jump in here and tell us if the filtering capabilities are up to snuff.
NickB
It seems car manufacturers are specifying oil and filter change intervals of around 7500 miles, give or take a few thousand. In order to go that long between change out it makes sense they would create filters that are less restrictive than the aftermarket ones. This way they would flow more oil for longer intervals before "clogging-up".
I've been hoping this was the case so that they could be used with synthetic oils for extended drain intervals of around 6 to 7 thousand miles. I like the idea of having the stock filter, with the correct bypass settings, and the ability to go for 7K oil changes. Hopefully someone with more experience will jump in here and tell us if the filtering capabilities are up to snuff.
NickB
My only reservation with the bosch was the bypass valve setting and the fact they filter down to 15 micron, which might cause some restriction if using in extended drain intervals. It would be interesting to see the honda oem vs. a champion labs filter on bob's used filter flow test.
Nick,
Please explain what you mean by the "bypass value setting".
Thanks
quote:
Originally posted by MikeySoft:
If the value of the filter is poor then I pass right on by
Sorry, couldn't resist. From what I've been told by Honda mechanics, these cars have a higher by-pass setting than most. With the Bosch, SuperTech, and Wix filters, the by-pass valve in the filter is set to open anywhere from 8psi to 18psi depending on the filter. This is a much larger range than the stock filter and is due to the fact they use the same filter for different car makes and models.
The stock filter is set to open at the exact pressure specified by Honda. I trust this more than a filter that lists a range of values, but that's just me.
NickB
[ October 15, 2003, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: nick ]
Thanks for the quick response Nick.
The Wix web site states that the bypass value is 8-11 PSI for the filter used for the Honda.
I cannot fine the bypass value for any other brand filters.
Are these values printed anyplace where we can find them?
The Honda mechanic may have been doing some marketing for Honda's filters so I like to see it in print or on the brand's web site.
Having a higher bypass value would mean that the oil pressure will drop has the filter gets clogged. Or maybe it means it will not go into bypass on surges like cold starts.
[ October 15, 2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: MikeySoft ]
The Wix web site states that the bypass value is 8-11 PSI for the filter used for the Honda.
I cannot fine the bypass value for any other brand filters.
Are these values printed anyplace where we can find them?
The Honda mechanic may have been doing some marketing for Honda's filters so I like to see it in print or on the brand's web site.
Having a higher bypass value would mean that the oil pressure will drop has the filter gets clogged. Or maybe it means it will not go into bypass on surges like cold starts.
[ October 15, 2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: MikeySoft ]
I don't believe the Honda Service statement regarding the filter media efficiency. At least, I don't think the info is accurate regarding the OEM filters made by Fram. Fram's bottom-of-the-line Extra Guard filter media has SPE of 96% at 20 microns. The Tough Guard media is slightly better with SPE of 98% at 20 microns.
Maybe that bulletin referred to the Japanese filters.
Maybe that bulletin referred to the Japanese filters.
Jay, I tend to believe Honda's info. However,this cutaway makes the filter look pretty good:
cutaway
This pic also leads me to believe that even though this filter is manufactured by FRAM, it's a higher quality than your standards FRAM filter:
Honda filter pic
When you compare the qualities of a Honda filter to other high quality filters (Wix, PureOne) the Honda filter has many of the same desirable features: silicon anti-drainback valve, metal end caps, metal pressure bypass valve, large surface area, and Honda's specially formulated Variable Density Paper (whatever that is?).
I've seriously considered going to another aftermarket filter v. OEM, however I am concerned about the same items you guys are, proper bypass setting, overly restrictive filter paper, ect.
Bottom line, in my experience Honda has always put out a quality product, vehicles and parts, it's apparent by the comparison with the FRAM that Honda has specificied a higher quality filter from their suppliers than what can be purchased over the shelf. Also I agree with your logic that the Honda filter must at least provide the same filtering capability as the basic FRAM.
Food for thought...when researching filters via manuafactures websites I found that filter makers choose the test that makes their filter look best and are very liberal with their interperatation of the data. Look at how PureOne arrives at their filtering claims. PureOne
[ October 15, 2003, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: guile ]
cutaway
This pic also leads me to believe that even though this filter is manufactured by FRAM, it's a higher quality than your standards FRAM filter:
Honda filter pic
When you compare the qualities of a Honda filter to other high quality filters (Wix, PureOne) the Honda filter has many of the same desirable features: silicon anti-drainback valve, metal end caps, metal pressure bypass valve, large surface area, and Honda's specially formulated Variable Density Paper (whatever that is?).
I've seriously considered going to another aftermarket filter v. OEM, however I am concerned about the same items you guys are, proper bypass setting, overly restrictive filter paper, ect.
Bottom line, in my experience Honda has always put out a quality product, vehicles and parts, it's apparent by the comparison with the FRAM that Honda has specificied a higher quality filter from their suppliers than what can be purchased over the shelf. Also I agree with your logic that the Honda filter must at least provide the same filtering capability as the basic FRAM.
Food for thought...when researching filters via manuafactures websites I found that filter makers choose the test that makes their filter look best and are very liberal with their interperatation of the data. Look at how PureOne arrives at their filtering claims. PureOne
[ October 15, 2003, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: guile ]
Guile, I just bought and cut open a $7.50 OEM Honda oil filter and I can assure you that it looks nothing like the picture in the brochure you linked to, nor does it look anything like the filter in the 2nd link. It looks exactly like a $3.00 Fram except for the O-ring on the baseplate.
[ October 16, 2003, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Jay ]
[ October 16, 2003, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Jay ]
Jay, I don't know what you got but every Honda OEM I've purchased has had the features of the "cutaway" link I posted, that's a illustration that Honda used for their last version of filters. The picture of the Honda filter next to a fram is the "new" Honda filter, I'm holding one right now and it's just like the filter in the picture.
1. You will all be sued by the cardboard manufactureres association.
2. seems honda specs would be tighter on the micron size
2. seems honda specs would be tighter on the micron size
Jay
Are the folds in the filter paper exposed at the ends like in the picture or do the end caps cover them?
1. You will all be sued by the cardboard manufactureres association.
2. seems honda specs would be tighter on the micron size
2. seems honda specs would be tighter on the micron size
I believe the filter in your picture is the old Filtech filter (15400-POH-305). It certainly isn't a Fram. The new Honda/Fram filter (15400-PLM-A01) looks just like the Fram 7317 except for the baseplate 0-ring and the orange (silicon?)ADB. The new Honda filter says "Fram" on it and if you look inside from the bottom you don't see a bypass valve spring. You see the bottom of the molded plastic bypass valve--same as the 7317 Fram.
There are at least three current part numbers for honda OEM filters available in the US. One is the Fram made filter (15400-PLM-A01), the other is the US made filtech (15400-P0H-305), and the third is the Japanese Toyo Ruki filter (15400-PCX-004). There is a fourth OEM filter made by Fram for the Canadian market and IS identical to a low-end Fram, as shown here:Picture of Canadian Fram/Honda filte (which could very well be used by certain dealers in the US).
As far as I know (and from all the reports I've seen), all three of the above oem filters (NOT the canadian Fram) have the silicon ADBV, heavy duty cases, and other features mentioned by Guile.
As for not believing the micron ratings specified for these filters, you have to remember that Honda specifies "extended drain itervals", so it makes sense that by filtering at a moderate level these filters will last 6K to 7K miles between changeout (I.E. they won't clog up as fast).
NickB
As far as I know (and from all the reports I've seen), all three of the above oem filters (NOT the canadian Fram) have the silicon ADBV, heavy duty cases, and other features mentioned by Guile.
As for not believing the micron ratings specified for these filters, you have to remember that Honda specifies "extended drain itervals", so it makes sense that by filtering at a moderate level these filters will last 6K to 7K miles between changeout (I.E. they won't clog up as fast).
NickB
Well I'm not going to beat this horse to death ... the Honda filter in this picture Honda filter pic
is the new honda filter. The part number is incorrect, it's actually 15400-PLM-A02. Upon visual inspection I can definitely identify the silicon adbv; it's true that you can't see a bypass spring, but if you study the photo it's evident that the spring isn't visable from the interior of the filter.
Nick or anyone with the information; does anyone have a link to data that definitively indicates superior performance/construction of the Toyo Roki filters?
is the new honda filter. The part number is incorrect, it's actually 15400-PLM-A02. Upon visual inspection I can definitely identify the silicon adbv; it's true that you can't see a bypass spring, but if you study the photo it's evident that the spring isn't visable from the interior of the filter.
Nick or anyone with the information; does anyone have a link to data that definitively indicates superior performance/construction of the Toyo Roki filters?
Can you use the new 15400-PCX-004 filter on Accord's? The web sites I've been to say that this is an S2000 filter. Are the bypass settings the same?
Jay, it sounds like you got the Canadian version of the Honda/Fram filter. It DOES have the cardboard endcaps and is pretty much the same as the 7317.
The US made Honda/Filtech 15400-P0H-305 is being discontinued but is still available for a short time and is a great filter.
The new Honda/Fram filter 15400-PLM-A01 will replace the above Filtech filter, but it also looks to be a nicley constructed filter (unlike the Fram 7317/Canadian oem filter).
The Japanese OEM Honda/Toyo Ruki filter 15400-PCX-004 is the best of the bunch and available for a little less than $6.00 each online. Now that this filter is available in the US it doesn't make sense not to use it.
NickB
The US made Honda/Filtech 15400-P0H-305 is being discontinued but is still available for a short time and is a great filter.
The new Honda/Fram filter 15400-PLM-A01 will replace the above Filtech filter, but it also looks to be a nicley constructed filter (unlike the Fram 7317/Canadian oem filter).
The Japanese OEM Honda/Toyo Ruki filter 15400-PCX-004 is the best of the bunch and available for a little less than $6.00 each online. Now that this filter is available in the US it doesn't make sense not to use it.
NickB
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