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#3206364 - 12/04/13 05:06 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
jake88 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 146
Loc: MO
It is not the $0.07/gallon but the fee to originate the license that puts out the small and medium sized marketers. That fee is no sweat off the backs of Mobil or Castrol or Valvoline. Kudos to Valvoline, though, even though I am sure it was their self interest rather than their concern for the independent marketer that drove their resistance to the GM DEXOS racket.

My company blends a formula that has already been approved by GM... but that really doesn't matter because we do not sell enough synthetic engine oil to ever break even on a $20,000 licensing fee. That is unless we want to sell oil at a $2/qt premium. I mean, I guess it is our fault for not making the commitment to compete in the small-margin business of engine oils. But ask yourself - would you support your local/regional oil company if it costs you $2/qt to do it?
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#3206410 - 12/04/13 05:40 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: OVERKILL]
tommygunn Offline


Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 3061
Loc: usa
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


This is very similar to what most of the Euro marques do (minus the royalties of course).


That's the biggest thing, and GM shouldn't be allowed to do it. Even Porsche doesn't charge to carry A40 approval--and they charge people for everything! GM didn't charge for 4718M.

A spec should be just that--a spec. No royalty, no approval.

Maybe the fee is only there to help pay off those bailout loans? Of course, dexos is just a cash grab and not really important or particularly tough, and some people even consider it a downgrade step backwards from the free 4718M, which ST syn meets (says so on the bottle, but of course no mention of dexos)

I like the way Smitty's did it. Their dexos1 synthetic has the official GM dexos approval (royalty paid), but there's not even an API donut or ILSAC starburst! The label on the Smitty's dexos is ONLY the dexos logo with a very small SuperS logo in the corner.

Yeah API does charge fees, but they are extremely miniscule. I don't think ACEA even charges a fee at all.
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#3206575 - 12/04/13 07:55 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: tommygunn]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 19253
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
A spec should be just that--a spec. No royalty, no approval.

The Europeans have approvals, even if they don't charge for them. Nonetheless, GM isn't getting rich over this. It's a way for them to make pretty accounting for recoup on R&D.

If it were me, I'd prefer the actual dexos1 oil. Oil that is equivalent to dexos1 isn't going to be any cheaper. And, it's easy to say that GM still has to provide warranty. One certainly can fight that, and probably win. I bet it won't be cheap, though. At least with a real dexos1 oil, it's not questionable.

Engine failures aren't terribly common, though. Requirement of dexos1 or equivalent is to protect the engines, and by extension, GM's liability in the matter when it comes to warranty. I doubt GM is worried about people running Synpower. They might be a little more concerned about someone running a conventional for the full OCI, at least with respect to certain applications.
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2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
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#3206968 - 12/05/13 07:31 AM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
05LGTLtd Offline


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 947
Loc: Va
Gm has managed to get oil companies to put a GM trademarked spec on the front of each "Dexos" oil. It's like they are getting paid to advertise their own brand name. If they had some real foresight, they would have used a name that would have actually be identifiable to the majority of consumers as GM advertising. At least there isn't a "Heart Beat Certified" in a bowtie on each bottle. Then we could have a "Built Ford Tough" Spec, and a "Yeah, It's got a Hemi!" spec to boot...

Is part of the agreement that the Dexos spec has to be on the front of the bottle in the trademarked appearance?
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#3207497 - 12/05/13 03:35 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: 05LGTLtd]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 19253
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: 05LGTLtd
Gm has managed to get oil companies to put a GM trademarked spec on the front of each "Dexos" oil.

Maybe that's why it isn't the Bowtie or something like that. wink They faced enough resistance as it is.
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Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3207901 - 12/05/13 09:05 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: OVERKILL]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1495
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
An oil that meets dexos 1 or equivalent.

What would be a Dexos1 equivalent, just curious?


Probably an oil like Valvoline that says that it meets the requirements of Dexos 1 but isn't officially licensed? shrug


So if I mixed some oil in my garage, put it in a jug, told you that it EXCEEDED dexos, that's good enough for you?
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#3207903 - 12/05/13 09:08 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1495
Loc: St. Louis, MO
All these people are blabbing about Euro spec this and bah spec that. Have you ever seen what some of these oils cost that meet these obscure European specs? Significantly MORE than Mobil 1. So SOMEBODY is making money, correct?
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#3207923 - 12/05/13 09:26 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 32159
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: stchman
All these people are blabbing about Euro spec this and bah spec that. Have you ever seen what some of these oils cost that meet these obscure European specs? Significantly MORE than Mobil 1. So SOMEBODY is making money, correct?

Mobil1 0w-40 meets most of those "obscure European specs" yet it costs exactly the same as all other Mobil1 grades, so what's your point?
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#3207925 - 12/05/13 09:27 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: Quattro Pete]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1495
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: stchman
All these people are blabbing about Euro spec this and bah spec that. Have you ever seen what some of these oils cost that meet these obscure European specs? Significantly MORE than Mobil 1. So SOMEBODY is making money, correct?

Mobil1 0w-40 meets most of those "obscure European specs" yet it costs exactly the same as all other Mobil1 grades, so what's your point?


What if you have a BMW M5? Apparently those cars require that 10W-60 and that stuff is expensive and hard to find.
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#3207934 - 12/05/13 09:33 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 32159
Loc: Great Lakes
I guess they assume that if you can afford an M5, then you can also afford to feed it fancy oil. Same goes for some high end Mustang versions that call for 5w-50 oil.
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'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

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#3208037 - 12/05/13 11:35 PM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: Quattro Pete]
crazyoildude Offline


Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 9114
Loc: New Jersey
yup and you can afford the new engine it needs...but the truth is most of them are leased. we see a lot of bmw's in my shop needing new engines
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#3208162 - 12/06/13 06:43 AM Re: Why do people want to complain about dexos? [Re: stchman]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 2553
Loc: Central Iowa
Originally Posted By: stchman


So if I mixed some oil in my garage, put it in a jug, told you that it EXCEEDED dexos, that's good enough for you?


All depends. Put yourself under the regulations of the Federal Trade Commission, that would include fines and prison time, get yourself some high ticket liability insurance coverage, and put your "home brew" under scrutiny of the market place, and then, maybe, I might be more inclined to take your word that it meets or exceeds the spec.

You glibly throw out a ridiculous scenario that is farcical on its face to try and make a point.
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