Recent Topics
Group 1 Oils & Cleaning
by B320i
18 minutes 0 seconds ago
2002 Infiniti G20 SR20DE nput needed
by Dumc87
33 minutes 5 seconds ago
Mahle KC22 fuel filter cut open
by Run
Today at 08:55 PM
Maintenance Parts - Honda B18B1 and Toyota 2AZ-FE
by ThirdeYe
Today at 08:47 PM
You guys with GM 5.3 who use Synth.
by Speak2Mountain
Today at 08:25 PM
Anyone used Hotwire.com?
by maverickfhs
Today at 07:28 PM
I shifted 254 times on my commute home
by tomcat27
Today at 06:34 PM
Napa big sale 5/27/15 in parts of Florida
by MSTUEBER
Today at 06:25 PM
Racing differential oil
by Fastcompany
Today at 06:01 PM
Service Champ 4967 Cut open TORN
by THafeez
Today at 05:55 PM
Group 7 V241 (Puro made) Cut Open TORN
by THafeez
Today at 05:45 PM
Fram PH4967 Cut Open
by THafeez
Today at 05:34 PM
Fram COR4967TLE Cut Open
by THafeez
Today at 05:28 PM
Toyota Denso 90915-YZZF1 Cut Open
by THafeez
Today at 05:23 PM
Oil recommendation for 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0
by ChiefJeep
Today at 05:06 PM
Stuck oil filter? Use a pipe wrench...
by RNMKia
Today at 04:52 PM
What Base is Super-Lube?
by JZiggy
Today at 04:43 PM
Brake bleeding with abs
by ARB1977
Today at 04:27 PM
Toyota Tacoma and Tundra
by millerbl00
Today at 03:55 PM
Catalyst monitor not ready
by Anduril
Today at 03:30 PM
Newest Members
Jes, hamm, Curlscurls, Regina, stuka
61656 Registered Users
Who's Online
88 registered (ag_ghost, 901Memphis, Armkb, Astro14, 1JZ_E46, AITG, 8 invisible), 2151 Guests and 10 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
61656 Members
66 Forums
265581 Topics
4388732 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Topic Options
#3195286 - 11/22/13 10:09 PM RB211 side smoke?
crinkles Offline


Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 5555
Loc: Australia
We took a flight from Johannesburg to Sydney recently on Qantas Flight 64. It is operated by a 747-400 with Rolls-Royce RB211-524G-T engines.

We were sitting on the right outside window, and could see engine #4 (and none other). On taxi we noticed smoke coming from a port on the side of the engine. Swirling, not jetting. This continued during takeoff, and climbout, but obviously became a smoother stream on climbout.

It is disconcerting to see this at the start of a 12 hour flight across the Southern Ocean (Went down to 51 degree south). I assumed they knew what they were doing though...

The smoke was white, probably oil related? As the sun set pretty quick after climbout, didn't pay it a second thought. Taxiing on the ground in Sydney, the swirling smoke was still billowing out.

Was this engine burning oil? does it need a seal replacement?

Here is a good photo, on a different airline though, but same port - just under the Rolls Royce decal.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Cathay-Pa...732b0b51c77ef00

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=jnb-syd


Edited by crinkles (11/22/13 10:16 PM)

Top
#3195307 - 11/22/13 10:54 PM Re: RB211 side smoke? [Re: crinkles]
expat Offline


Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 5242
Loc: Canada
"It is disconcerting to see this at the start of a 12 hour flight across the Southern Ocean (Went down to 51 degree south). I assumed they knew what they were doing though...

The smoke was white, probably oil related?"

It's British, it's supposed to do that.

Top
#3195324 - 11/22/13 11:20 PM Re: RB211 side smoke? [Re: crinkles]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 18008
Loc: Iowegia - USA
The Rolls-Royce RB211-524G-T is the more fuel efficient version of
the RB211 with a Trent Hot core section and an extra bleed valve.

I suspect the bleed was actually steam.

Or else it needs a serious head gasket replacement. grin2 oilburner
_________________________
My brain cells, skin cells, and hair cells continue to die, but my fat cells have eternal life. smile

Top
#3195398 - 11/23/13 07:08 AM Re: RB211 side smoke? [Re: MolaKule]
JetStar Offline


Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 1497
Loc: Flatlands of Indiana
My first thought was a bearing sump vent, but I don't know RR engines very well.
_________________________
My weakness is I love all motorcycles regardless of brand
2016 Suzuki DR650
2015 Road Glide
2007 Yamaha FZ1
1978 Suzuki GS1000 (now 1085)

Top
#3195474 - 11/23/13 08:33 AM Re: RB211 side smoke? [Re: crinkles]
Astro14 Online   content


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 7440
Loc: Virginia Beach
Oil vent most likely.

But jet engines hold quite a bit of oil and the pilots have oil pressure, oil temperature and oil quantity gauges. The aircraft monitors those parameters as well...to provide warning if a parameter reaches an alert or critical level. The airline monitors consumption and does analysis on the oil.

So, nothing to worry about, frankly.
_________________________
32 Packard 15W40
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W40 M1
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 TGMO

Top
#3196435 - 11/24/13 09:01 AM Re: RB211 side smoke? [Re: crinkles]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 6058
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
Absolutely normal for rolls engines. They use pressurized labyrinth seals, with no mechanical seal at all. The outboard vent you see is much the same as a crankcase vent going overboard on a car, instead of a PCV system. It will show oil vapor. In cruise flight, it seals very well and little oil is lost.

Other manufacturers do it differently and you don't see the oil mist.

On our company jet, a G550, both Br710 engines have oil vapor swirling about at idle. I think it looks cheap. But, oil consumption is nil, so it must be as effective as any other system.


Edited by Cujet (11/24/13 09:04 AM)
_________________________
Turbo's rule.

Top
#3197213 - 11/25/13 12:53 AM Re: RB211 side smoke? [Re: crinkles]
crinkles Offline


Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 5555
Loc: Australia
Thanks guys. Great Info. Would the amount of venting be different from engine to engine? This is the first time I've seen it. Perhaps that engine was a bit more worn?

Top
#3197714 - 11/25/13 01:25 PM Re: RB211 side smoke? [Re: crinkles]
Astro14 Online   content


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 7440
Loc: Virginia Beach
Yes, the venting will vary from engine to engine...these things all have large sumps, scavenge pumps, air/oil coolers, fuel/oil coolers, etc...pretty robust oil systems to feed the bearings oil at a nice, stable temperature and pressure....
_________________________
32 Packard 15W40
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W40 M1
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 TGMO

Top
#3210283 - 12/08/13 10:57 AM Re: RB211 side smoke? [Re: JetStar]
Propflux01 Offline


Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 3289
Loc: Arkansastan
Originally Posted By: JetStar
My first thought was a bearing sump vent, but I don't know RR engines very well.


My thinking as well (labyrinth seal). I've seen that a lot on T-56, but out the combined bottom drain.
_________________________
2014 Hyundai Elantra
2014 Hyundai Elantra GT

A 55 Gallon Drum And A Shovel Can Solve A lot of Life's Little "Problems"

Top
#3218072 - 12/16/13 04:59 AM Re: RB211 side smoke? [Re: crinkles]
john_pifer Offline


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 1319
Loc: Nashville, TN via Memphis
The RB-211 bankrupted RR. They'd be outta business today had the Brit govt not bailed them out.
_________________________
16 WRX - PPPP
07 Tacoma V6 - M1 EP 5W-30, 182K, 10K OCIs
07 Yamaha R1 - Rotella T6 5W-40, Bosch 3300
07 Yamaha YZ-250, Klotz, Rotella


Top