DW-1 to MAX LIFE (ATF) in 8th-Gen Civic

[Tones]

Hey gathermewool, looking for an update on your experience with the Maxlife vs the DW-1. Any more observations? Thanks.

David1's post above states he only trusts Dw-1, but lists Maxlife in his sig? what changed?

 

[stchman]

Anyone that works on Hondas has said to use ONLY Honda fluid. I gather Hondas are very particular about what fluid they take.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: stchman
Anyone that works on Hondas has said to use ONLY Honda fluid.

I've worked on several and had an Accord for about a decade. Used many ATFs including Mobil 1 and Dex VI, settled on MaxLife as the best option.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: stchman
Anyone that works on Hondas has said to use ONLY Honda fluid.

I've worked on several and had an Accord for about a decade. Used many ATFs including Mobil 1 and Dex VI, settled on MaxLife as the best option.


I have never owned a Honda, I'm just going by what a lot of mechanics I know tell me. I recently changed the ATF on my brother's 2003 Accord and my buddy that owns a repair ship warned me against using anything else but Honda fluid.

Even Eric the Car Guy says to ONLY use Honda ATF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7_RsnD8hAU

MaxLife was $17 for 4 quarts and Honda ATF DW-1 was $32 for the same amount. Yes it was $15 more, but how much is an automatic transmission to get fixed. It is just that everything I've read or heard is that Hondas are very particular about the fluids (besides oil) you put into them. I figure better safe than sorry.

 

[PandaBear]

I've had ML in my Integra for 60K and Castrol IMV for 15K, so far they both work fine.

One thing I believe is since Honda ATF has zinc, it shouldn't be used in other transmission as it may plug their porous clutch packs that Honda has no problem with. So Honda can actually use other ATF but others can't use Honda ATF.

Since ML and Castrol can be used on almost all cars, they must have a different additive pack that works with both porous and non porous clutch packs.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: stchman
I figure better safe than sorry.

I know this from experience and that's why changing out ATF and PSF early and keeping it clean is as important as the quality of fluid.

There are very few automatic transmissions that would benefit from a 'better' fluid than MaxLife. I prefer to use the higher-spec fluid over the overpriced OE offerings. If you're OK with spending more for less, then OE (in many ases) is a very good way to go (it's usually safe), you're just not getting the performance or value.

 

[panthermike]

Is there any validity to the claim that Honda's don't "like" non-OEM ATF's? Documented failures? Honestly curious, as I don't personally know of any trans failures with non-OEM ATF.

I'm using Amsoil ATF in our '12 Civic, it shifts great, just as it did with the Honda ATF.

 

[sw99]

I too am seriously considering Maxlife ATF on our 2012 Civic. Were at 35,000 and I have been holding off getting the DW-1. The Maxlife did a great job firming up the shifts in the Corolla and I still have a gallon left in the garage.

 

[SevenBizzos]

Yeah, I'm going Amsoil ATF for the Accord in the next month. I'm not buying the Honda ATF only argument because (if you think about what you're saying here) it doesn't make sense.

 

[PandaBear]

PSF on the other hand is different on Honda (higher viscosity and a detergent pack to keep it clean), using regular ATF or PS fluid could cause leak unless it is spec for Honda/Acura.

 

[yesthatsteve]

Originally Posted By: panthermike
Is there any validity to the claim that Honda's don't "like" non-OEM ATF's? Documented failures? Honestly curious, as I don't personally know of any trans failures with non-OEM ATF.

I'm using Amsoil ATF in our '12 Civic, it shifts great, just as it did with the Honda ATF.


My Odyssey's three three failures were all on Honda fluid, the old Z-1. Honda's new ATF, DW-1, is a better fluid, but so is Maxlife, and at a much lower cost ($17 a gallon at an area Walmart).

The "OMG, you must use teh Honda fluid or you will DIE!!!" is an exaggeration based on the differences in design between Honda ATs and those from other manufacturers. Amsoil, Redline D4, and Maxlife have worked well in many Honda ATs, particularly the problematic units mated to V6 applications in the late 90s and early 00s.

 

[BobThe]

I've been running ML ATF in our 05 Odyssey for about 3.5 years and 50k miles with great results. The Odyssey now has 100k on the clock. It had been serviced once before at about 30k miles with Z-1.

2nd gen Odyssey's had all kinds of transmission problems and our 05 3rd gen is supposed to be a little bit better, but not as good as the 08+ trans. Knowing that, I wanted to do whatever I could to keep it together. I did a dump and fill 5 times using ML to make sure I got most of the old fluid out over the space of about of about a week. I now do a dump and fill every other oil change and the trans still feels perfect. Who knows, it might have done well on Z-1 or DW-1 with this sort of maintenance routine as well. I can't say for sure. All I can say is that it is working great and has been for years now and this spring it took 5 of us and all of our luggage from Indianapolis to Albuquerque, NM and it went up and down the mountain and back to Indy and did great. I did a dump and fill on it the last oil change it and still looked and smelled good. I am sure some will say I am way over doing it, but that's not the point here. I can say that in my opinion ML ATF is a great replacement for Z-1 and DW-1 and has served me well in the Odyssey.

 

[sw99]

Good to hear BobThe, thanks!

I pulled the trigger today and did the drain and fill on the civic. Like someone also mentioned, I am introducing it in slowly by the drain and fills. The odometer is at 34,XXX. Figure I'll do it every year (Approximately 25K). So far so good, shift smooth as can be.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: sw99
Like someone also mentioned, I am introducing it in slowly by the drain and fills. The odometer is at 34,XXX.

No need to do it slowly, the more of the old junk you get out of the system the less wear you'll accumulate. Ideally you'd do a complete flush at 1-5k and then again at 10-30k, regular service intervals after that.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: panthermike
Is there any validity to the claim that Honda's don't "like" non-OEM ATF's? Documented failures? Honestly curious, as I don't personally know of any trans failures with non-OEM ATF.


No, but both of ours have shifted noticeably different when on other fluids. I liked the MaxLife least in both transmissions, especially in our CR-V's transmission. Shifts were way too firm (harsh), the 2-3 upshift had an odd stumble sometimes, and the 1-2 shift would really drag on low throttle (like cruising through a parking lot). I understand that this is because the clutches are precisely timed with each other, where one disengages as the other engages to produce a smooth transition. When you change frictional properties of the fluid, that smooth transition is at stake. With a "stickier" fluid, that 1st gear clutch may not release as smooth as it should, and the 2nd gear clutch may not engage as smooth as it should, and you get weird transitions.

This PDF even mentions that the 1-2 shift feel relies heavily on OEM fluid, so aftermarket fluids aren't necessarily a go-to option (bottom of 2nd page):

http://www.sonnax.com/downloads/catalogs/sonnax-trans-report_v2n3.pdf

I like the Castrol Transmax IMV better than the MaxLife in our transmissions. The shifts seem smoother, though still not as smooth/fast as with DW-1. It's odd, even though DW-1 seems to produce the smoothest shifts, it also seems to produce the quickest shifts.

I personally get hung up with the additive package of Honda's OEM fluid. Both Z-1 and DW-1 now have used healthy amounts of zinc. To my knowledge, none of the universal fluids have zinc in them. I don't know why Honda uses the zinc, and I don't know what purpose it serves. I just know that it's in there, and they probably didn't just dump a zinc shaker into the drum because someone thought it'd be fun. I'm sure there's a reason for the zinc.

As you get more of the universal fluid in the transmission, the shift feel will likely change more and more. I have found this to be the case with both of ours. That said, I think some people are more sensitive to shift feel than others are. I feel very minute differences because I key-in on that stuff. Others may not feel the same thing. My disease is a blessing and a curse at the same time!

 

[Quakish]

^^ Hokie, check out this link. There is a passage that states zinc was used to reduce wear. this may have been replaced with something else in the newer fluids. who knows, maybe that's how honda identifies it's fluid from others when they test a blown tranny to see if OEM fluid was used???? (i was being a little sarcastic with this last question, BTW)

http://read.uberflip.com/i/74454/19

 

[Geauxtiger]

I have an '06 Odyssey with 222k mi on the original transmission. First 75k or so on OEM Z1. Next 50k on Amsoil ATF. Last nearly 100k mi on MaxLife. Bought daughter a new CRV in '09. First 30k mi on Z1, next 25k on Amsoil, then last 40k on MaxLife. Both transmissions feel and perform well. As others have mentioned, the "honda trans fluid ONLY" story appears to be just that....a story....(or a heckuva marketing coup for Honda!) I have not found anyone who could give me a fact-based explanation as to why MaxLife would not be interchangeable with DW-1.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Quakish
^^ Hokie, check out this link. There is a passage that states zinc was used to reduce wear. this may have been replaced with something else in the newer fluids. who knows, maybe that's how honda identifies it's fluid from others when they test a blown tranny to see if OEM fluid was used???? (i was being a little sarcastic with this last question, BTW)


You joke about your last sentence, but I have thought of that myself. Is that Honda's "tracer" in their fluid? Doubtful, but I wouldn't bet money against it.

Thanks for the link. They said that zinc was often used as an anti-wear additive, but they also went on to say that zinc could contaminate the clutch plates (if not designed for it) and cause them to slip. Because Honda's clutch plates seem to be designed with the zinc additive in mind, I wager that it's probably healthy for them to continue to see that zinc in the fluid. Has the behavior or function of the zinc been replaced by something else? I don't know. I'm not sure any of us know for sure.

I don't worry about the durability of our two transmissions at all, regardless of the fluid they use. I'm certainly not arguing that universal fluids will damage the transmissions. As I stated above, my preference for the OEM fluid in Hondas is based only on my experience with universal fluids and not liking the way the transmission operates with them, and based on that alone. I'm sure the transmissions will live long lives, regardless of the fluid I have in them.

Again, these are very slight differences, but ones I pick up on. My wife can't tell at all what fluid is in the transmission, nor does she care. She can't tell a difference between MaxLife and DW-1 in the transmission. But I can. I guess that's why I'm on BITOG and she's not.

 

[sw99]

Originally Posted By: martinq
No need to do it slowly, the more of the old junk you get out of the system the less wear you'll accumulate. Ideally you'd do a complete flush at 1-5k and then again at 10-30k, regular service intervals after that.


Yea, I'll probably do it again here in the spring when it warms up.