Recent Topics
2019 J.D. Power VDS
by buster - 09/17/19 09:05 AM
Possible to add catch can?
by cwilliamsws6 - 09/17/19 09:02 AM
Update on GF-6
by buster - 09/17/19 08:40 AM
motul eco-lite 5w30
by avi1777 - 09/17/19 07:47 AM
Hyundai sonata 2.4l burning oil
by Grambo - 09/17/19 07:22 AM
Mazda CX5 2.5 oil question
by Tallman - 09/17/19 06:54 AM
Can I use 10W40 gtx HM in cold winter like -5F?
by Cheburashka - 09/17/19 06:43 AM
BMW Longlife-04: Evolving Performance Requirements
by Bjornviken - 09/17/19 06:40 AM
Do you use gas brand exclusively ?
by MetalSlug - 09/17/19 04:58 AM
Mobil 15w30
by Chadders99 - 09/17/19 02:20 AM
2018 VW Atlas 3.6 4 Motion Reliability?
by GZRider - 09/16/19 11:48 PM
Account and posts removal
by newbe46 - 09/16/19 10:00 PM
Yamaha EF2800i break-in
by Uregina09 - 09/16/19 09:43 PM
Adding TCW3 to Gas Tank?
by maverickfhs - 09/16/19 08:45 PM
Motul 75w90 1L 12 pack $13.25
by wkcars - 09/16/19 08:36 PM
2019 Ford Fusion vs used?
by FL-400S - 09/16/19 08:33 PM
What is the reasoning for 2-fuel tanks on a rv?
by RazorsEdge - 09/16/19 07:54 PM
Thoughts and opinions on family haulers
by ram_man - 09/16/19 07:53 PM
Newest Members
R0CKETMAN, Southbend9, Bigaledge32, emilio15, Kokopelli34179
69303 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
98 registered members (5W50Spooge, 2011335d, 330indy, Anduril, Alfred_B, A310, 4 invisible), 1,975 guests, and 22 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics294,680
Posts5,064,459
Members69,303
Most Online3,532
Jul 30th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 5 of 7 1 4 5 6 7
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3083779 08/02/13 12:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 656
M
moving2 Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 656
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: moving2

kschachn- and how do you know Toyota didn't use this design to lead more people into their dealerships for service / tools? This seems to be the more common sense answer vs. your hand-waving "magical engineering" assumption. Afterall, making the oil filter work with a standard oil filter wrench isn't rocket science.



Toyota and other car makers are going to cartridge style filters because it is "greener" in terms of wast and recycle costs.

Processing traditional metal can filters for recycling is a pain as most still retain quite a bit oil that has to be squeezed out and then the media separated from metal can for the metal to be recycled.



+1 Exactly....that apparently has eluded some "engineers".


And, of course, both of your responses grasp at low hanging fruit while totally avoiding the main point: the design choice to require a special tool vs. more standard tools. It's no surprise that this point evades "non-engineers" who prefer to hand wave about a "technical sophistication" that they are unqualified, and apparently unable, to describe. Cheers2


'97 Lexus LX450 135K- PU 5w40
'94 Lexus LS400 111K- PU 5w40
'63 Dodge Travco 25K- Rotella T6 5w40
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: The Critic] #3085613 08/04/13 03:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 943
C
ChrisW Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 943
Originally Posted By: The Critic
This system is actually very clean. My 2011 Prius uses the same system.

With the proper cap, turn the cap SLOWLY until the cut-outs line-up with the correct part of the housing. Most of the oil will drain out. When you remove the filter, the mess should be minimal.



This. I learned about the line-up method by looking at the Toyota filter box. I find that about the same amount of oil spills out of the vertical canister filter on my Mazda6 as does on my lady's IS250 when doing changes. Oil changes are 'messy' regardless of filter design in my opinion. However, being that the cartridge housing is horizontal, I find it a tad less messy than my vertically mounted filter on my Mazda6; when loosening the filter on my mazda, the oil spills on the side of the can and gets all over the can. With the Lexus, if you loosen carefully enough it can drain without any oil spilling out onto the cap.


09 Mazda6 GT 3.7 89k PYB-SN 5W20 Wix 51516
10 Mazda3 GT 2.5 40k QSUD 0W20 Wix 51348
10 Mazda3 S 2.5 28k QSUD 0W20 Wix 51348
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: ChrisW] #3159612 10/18/13 06:53 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,386
G
greenjp Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,386
Round 2...

MIL racking up the miles requested another change for the RAV4 this week. Now equipped with the official Toyota filter housing cap and The_Eric's helpful tips it was considerably less frustrating than the first go-around.

A couple things I noticed this time:
- when initially removing the little metal plug from the cap, the entire housing loosened. I had to put the cap on, tighten it, then the metal plug loosened by itself. I suppose this could have been a result of not torquing each one correctly during the last job? Note, the housing cap has a sticker on it warning against the use of a torque wrench to tighten, and Toyota's manuals and maintenance booklet proved useless, providing no info.
- the cap has two pairs of three slots on opposite sides that appear like they should line up with a set of tabs on the filter housing, but the cap doesn't actually go onto the housing far enough for them to engage. Is that how it's supposed to be?
- Despite my relative hack-job the first go around, there weren't any leaks around the filter housing so that was nice. Despite draining it for 5+ minutes there was still quite a bit of oil within the housing, not so much a spill issue just oil all over the place so still sorta messy to replace the filter, put the new o-ring on, etc. I still fail to see the logic of this design vs. a top mounted cartridge or classic spin on type.

Thanks to those who provided helpful advice Cheers2


jeff

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3159633 10/18/13 07:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,531
T
The_Eric Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,531
Good to hear that you're having a better go of it this time.

You're saying that the housing warns NOT to torque it on? Odd. All the housings I've seen have the correct torque molded into them. Should be 25nm or 18.3 lbs. Since my 3/8" torque wrench doesn't read n/m, I set for 18lbs and tighten.

I've also seen the tabs on the side. I know some filter wrenches drive from them and there's also a spring loaded tang on some oil filter mounts that will catch one of the tabs.

As for the metal cap, it's happened to me too. But only when I snug it a little too much. If a quick lube place did the last oil change, then it doesn't happen because the housing is so darned tight that the plug would never loosen it. The reality is that it really doesn't need to be very tight. Heck, it likely doesn't need to be there at all since there's a spring loaded valve in the housing.

Lastly I'm surprised that there was a significant amount of oil in the housing after draining. Usually I let it drain for a minute or so, then loosen the housing. There will be oil in it, but it's always been nominal- not enough to make a mess.

Anyway, good luck on future changes!


2005 Lincoln Aviator 4.6 DOHC
2000 Honda Accord 2.3
2001 Hyundai Elantra 2.0
1979 Ford F-150 351M
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3159740 10/18/13 09:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 443
gaijinnv Offline
Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 443
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Round 2...

MIL racking up the miles requested another change for the RAV4 this week. Now equipped with the official Toyota filter housing cap and The_Eric's helpful tips it was considerably less frustrating than the first go-around.

A couple things I noticed this time:
- when initially removing the little metal plug from the cap, the entire housing loosened. I had to put the cap on, tighten it, then the metal plug loosened by itself. I suppose this could have been a result of not torquing each one correctly during the last job? Note, the housing cap has a sticker on it warning against the use of a torque wrench to tighten, and Toyota's manuals and maintenance booklet proved useless, providing no info. The little metal plug should be tightened to 9 ft/lb and the housing should be tightened to 18 ft/lb. You should use a torque wrench to obtain the correct torques.
- the cap has two pairs of three slots on opposite sides that appear like they should line up with a set of tabs on the filter housing, but the cap doesn't actually go onto the housing far enough for them to engage. Is that how it's supposed to be? Yes, this is how it is supposed to be. Those pairs of slots will engage a metal spring clip as a safeguard against the housing coming loose. Often, the metal clip is ignored when loosening the housing and is deformed so it will no longer engage the housing. If this is the case, it is no big deal, but the clip should be bent back so it does properly engage.
- Despite my relative hack-job the first go around, there weren't any leaks around the filter housing so that was nice. Despite draining it for 5+ minutes there was still quite a bit of oil within the housing, not so much a spill issue just oil all over the place so still sorta messy to replace the filter, put the new o-ring on, etc. I still fail to see the logic of this design vs. a top mounted cartridge or classic spin on type. When draining the housing, after removing the little metal plug, the drain adapter which comes with the filter must be pushed all the way into the housing to properly drain. When pushed all the way in, a spring-loaded valve is opened allowing complete drainage of the housing. Sounds like you did not push the drain adapter all the way in.

Thanks to those who provided helpful advice Cheers2


jeff


I agree it is a more complicated setup than a simple spin-on filter, but all the vagaries and variabilities of ADBV construction and material, springs, filter support and flow design are eliminated. The engineer in me loves the Toyota design - the old man in me hates getting on my back and dealing with it.

thumbsup


USN NAVSECGRU 1970-1974
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3165343 10/23/13 06:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 250
M
My442 Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 250
I have a 2013 Tundra. Having been an oil changer for the last 45 years, I decided to research how to do it.

1. It has a large skid plate with 8 bolts - easy to remove.

2. The oil filter housing has an aluminum cap that covers the drain hole for the housing - also easy to remove.

3. The Toyota filter comes with a plastic drain tube that needs to be inserted into the housing. If you take a glass beer bottle and insert the plastic tube in it, you can push the tube into the housing, and catch all of the oil. No mess.

4. I bought the Assenmacher filter tool off of Amazon. Makes removing the housing easy.

So, I would rate the oil change somewhat more difficult than a spin on cartridge filter, but not horrible....except it takes 8.5 quarts of oil.

Last edited by My442; 10/23/13 06:07 PM.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: My442] #3165494 10/23/13 08:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,180
H
hattaresguy Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,180
Its a Toyota, they don't need oil changes...

The Germans perfected the filter setup, everyone else needs to figure it out and just copy them already. Nice cartridge right on the front, use the plastic bag trick and you don't even need gloves and don't lose 1 drop of oil!

Manufactures do it for cost. On my truck for example the filter is way up in a stupid place. It would have cost GM probably $10 to put a nice remote set up on but field maintenance is not a big concern for them since most people sub oil changes out.

Toyota's set up sounds needlessly complicated.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: hattaresguy] #3165667 10/23/13 10:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,357
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,357
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Its a Toyota, they don't need oil changes...

The Germans perfected the filter setup, everyone else needs to figure it out and just copy them already. Nice cartridge right on the front, use the plastic bag trick and you don't even need gloves and don't lose 1 drop of oil!

Manufactures do it for cost. On my truck for example the filter is way up in a stupid place. It would have cost GM probably $10 to put a nice remote set up on but field maintenance is not a big concern for them since most people sub oil changes out.

Toyota's set up sounds needlessly complicated.


Agreed. changing the oil on my BMW's is a BREEZE, and the least messy of any vehicle I've ever owned.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: OVERKILL] #3165709 10/23/13 11:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
H
HTSS_TR Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Its a Toyota, they don't need oil changes...

The Germans perfected the filter setup, everyone else needs to figure it out and just copy them already. Nice cartridge right on the front, use the plastic bag trick and you don't even need gloves and don't lose 1 drop of oil!

Manufactures do it for cost. On my truck for example the filter is way up in a stupid place. It would have cost GM probably $10 to put a nice remote set up on but field maintenance is not a big concern for them since most people sub oil changes out.

Toyota's set up sounds needlessly complicated.


Agreed. changing the oil on my BMW's is a BREEZE, and the least messy of any vehicle I've ever owned.

Do you use a fluid extractor ?

Of all my cars, the E430 is easiest to change oil and filter.


'00 MB E430
'04 Honda S2000
'06 Volvo V70
'14 Honda Accord LX
"Throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry" Pope Francis
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: HTSS_TR] #3165714 10/23/13 11:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,357
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,357
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Its a Toyota, they don't need oil changes...

The Germans perfected the filter setup, everyone else needs to figure it out and just copy them already. Nice cartridge right on the front, use the plastic bag trick and you don't even need gloves and don't lose 1 drop of oil!

Manufactures do it for cost. On my truck for example the filter is way up in a stupid place. It would have cost GM probably $10 to put a nice remote set up on but field maintenance is not a big concern for them since most people sub oil changes out.

Toyota's set up sounds needlessly complicated.


Agreed. changing the oil on my BMW's is a BREEZE, and the least messy of any vehicle I've ever owned.

Do you use a fluid extractor ?

Of all my cars, the E430 is easiest to change oil and filter.


Nope, just the drain plug under the trap door on the bottom of the underbody panel.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: OVERKILL] #3165966 10/24/13 09:11 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,386
G
greenjp Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,386
Forgot to reply when I posted last week...

Eric, it's not the filter housing that says not to use a torque wrench, but rather the housing cap wrench itself. There's a sticker on it. I have not noticed any text molded into the housing itself, I'll take a look for it next time.

Regardless, thanks both of you for the info on the correct torque specs for the drain plug and housing. I have an in-lbs torque wrench so shouldn't have a problem with it.

As for the little plastic drain gizmo, the one that came with the PureOne filter was threaded such that it is screwed in the same way as the drain plug. I turned it all the way in and let it drain for 5+ minutes. As I said the bulk of the oil was removed yet the inside of the housing was still quite an oily mess (as I'd expect given there's a soaked filter inside).

Quote:
hattaresguy:
Toyota's set up sounds needlessly complicated.

Though my second experience was much improved thanks to the "training" I've recieved, I still come back to this same opinion. There are better ways to implement this feature (removable oil filter). Sure maybe it's not so bad once you get the hang of it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be easier if there's a better way. The whole set up with the separate drain plug, special wrench, o-rings, etc seems rather Rube Goldberg-esque when you've done the same job on other cars.

jeff

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3166083 10/24/13 11:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 443
gaijinnv Offline
Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 443
Originally Posted By: greenjp


As for the little plastic drain gizmo, the one that came with the PureOne filter was threaded such that it is screwed in the same way as the drain plug. I turned it all the way in and let it drain for 5+ minutes. As I said the bulk of the oil was removed yet the inside of the housing was still quite an oily mess (as I'd expect given there's a soaked filter inside).

jeff


Toyota filters, both standard and TRD high performance, come with a push-in type "gizmo" which effectively drains the oil from the housing:



thumbsup


USN NAVSECGRU 1970-1974
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3166334 10/24/13 02:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,180
H
hattaresguy Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,180
The very fact that you have to get underneath the car and they have the cartridge mounted where the oil drains out if you don't use a special tool shows its a poorly thought out design. Some engineer got carried away and no one was around to reign him back in.



This is the proper way to mount a cartridge filter, as soon as you crack the seal oil drains down into the crankcase where it belongs. Its also in a very serviceable location. (notice all the fluids that require checks PS fluid, coolant, oil are located in the same square for fast and easy top off) That's about where I would mount a remote filter on my Chevy if I ever get ambitious enough.

Field serviceability is big for those who actually do the work. If you look at larger engines and equipment this becomes a big deal, especially on boats.

As a result of excellent field serviceability you can change the oil without getting under the car, and quite frankly in your best cloths if you so desired its that clean and fast.

Last edited by hattaresguy; 10/24/13 02:30 PM.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3166341 10/24/13 02:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,357
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,357
Very similar to BMW:



Fill cap is on the left valve cover in the above image. Cartridge is on the right side of the engine.

You can use an extractor down the dipstick tube if you desire and remain perfectly clean. I've been too cheap to buy an extractor so I use the drain plug.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: OVERKILL] #3166370 10/24/13 02:55 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,386
G
greenjp Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,386
Also note in that BMW photo that the filter housing has accomodations for both a special cap wrench (or at least it appears that way) as well as a standard socket, albeit a large one. I've used slip-joint channelocks on my Aunt's old 530.

jeff

Page 5 of 7 1 4 5 6 7
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™