Replace Crush Washer?

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Maybe that's a Ford or import phenomenon. My GM's and Chrysler products have a rubber like O-ring (appears to be made into the plug) that I have never replaced. Didn't even know you had to and I've been changing oil for 35 years. My bike has an actual O-ring that I replace every time I change the oil.


I do occasionally have problems with the Chrysler style plug.

An Import thing? Yes. Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, and VW have it, and there are probably others. It wouldn't surprise me if Subaru did it as well, but I don't change oil on Subarus often.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Maybe that's a Ford or import phenomenon. My GM's and Chrysler products have a rubber like O-ring (appears to be made into the plug) that I have never replaced. Didn't even know you had to and I've been changing oil for 35 years. My bike has an actual O-ring that I replace every time I change the oil.


I do occasionally have problems with the Chrysler style plug.

An Import thing? Yes. Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, and VW have it, and there are probably others. It wouldn't surprise me if Subaru did it as well, but I don't change oil on Subarus often.

It may be different with certain models (and some cars that are merely rebadged), but most of the imports use specific OEM crush washers.

The one Toyota I changed oil on used an M10. The factory one I saw was aluminum but coated with paper on both sides. The dealer I went to sold fiber. I remember buying either copper at a local speed shop but got aluminum ones at a Honda dealer. They were for an older brake fitting and the parts guy said they rarely sold any.

Honda/Acura has always used an M14 aluminum crush washer that's made in Japan. Once I bought a bunch at a dealer and they were sealed in bags with the winged Honda motorcycle logo. I understand that Honda motorcycles use the exact same plug size.

I've changed a Nissan once. The dealer sells a unique looking M12 gasket made in Japan by some company called Ishino. They're really funky looking. The material itself is really thin, but it folds over to make three layers. I'm also not sure what's with the little notch. It looked like it dug in little scratches into the drain bolt. Also - my folks told me they took it to a local shop the last time for an oil change, but I found one of these things. I don't think they put on a new washer since I doubt they use this type.

Subaru uses an M20 steel crush washer like the kind you see on spark plugs. It's the widest oil drain plug hole I've ever seen. The manual transmission fill plug hole on Hondas are this size.

Of course these are basically all interchangeable. There's nothing special about aluminum, copper, steel, or fiber. I've occasionally used copper or aluminum on my Subaru. Dorman has copies of various gaskets, including that funky Nissan one. I bought a box of 10 of their Subaru equivalents, but they don't seal perfectly. They don't seep, but have tiny amounts of oil leak over time. There's an oil dirt coating near the plug and a little oil on the under spoiler. The ones I got are somewhat rough on one side and I don't think it's forming a perfect seal. I'm thinking of sanding down that side.

 

[willbur]

I have never replaced a crush washer om any drain plug despite many oil or trans fluid changes.Never a leak or seepage. Must be lucky.

 

[stchman]

Replace the crush washer, seriously? I was under the impression that all the manufacturers use a rubber o-ring in the drain plug. I have not changed a drain plug gasket since my 1998 Chevy C1500.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Spudislander
My 2013 Mazda 3 with 2.0L motor doesn't have a separate crush washer for the oil pan drain plug. Rather, the head of the drain plug bolt is shaped like a washer but that's it. The same was true with my 2009 Mazda 3 with the similar motor. I never replaced the drain plug on my 2009 model and I had it for nearly 160,000 kms (100,000 miles.)


If you have a 2.0L skyactiv, it most definitely has a crush washer on the drain plug. I just did one on Sunday. The washer is aluminum and quite tiny.

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I'm with the crowd that have never replaced a crush washer.
If you don't go crazy tightening the drain plug, they seem to last the life of the engine without leaking.
A shortish ratchet pretty well ensures that you won't overtighten.
I've also never even considered using a torque wrench on a drain plug, although I have a couple of them.


If you tightened the drain plug to specified torque value (29 or 33 ft-lbs depending on the Honda model), the crush washer WILL crush and will be quite deformed after a few oil changes.

I have seen quite a few people tighten the plugs barely snug (and re-use the washer), but it is definitely not the proper practice.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
If you have a 2.0L skyactiv, it most definitely has a crush washer on the drain plug. I just did one on Sunday. The washer is aluminum and quite tiny.


The p/n is 99564-1400, here is the baggy I keep next to my computer, tells you how many I sell. They are not supposed to be reused. BTW the SkyActiv and non SkyActiv engines use the same washer, they have used this washer for years. The only ones with a formed in rubber seal are the Ford clones, Tribute, B-series, etc.

 

[cp3]

I much prefer the GM/Ford style with the built in rubber seal. Have not done the Charger yet so I'm not sure what's there.

My son is several OCIs in on his Mazda3 and I don't believe the washer has been changed.

My buddy's Civic has not been changed, since he started doing them himself at least and that was about 6 years ago. He did mention this past weekend when he changed it that it was seeping slightly.

Originally Posted By: JetStar
I've been doing this a long time and have spare washers on hand for all of my vehicles / bikes. IF when I go to drop the plug, and there is evidence of seepage, I'll replace the washer. If not, then I'll re-use it.


This makes sense to me and what I'll be doing if ever have a car with one.

 

[Mykl]

Up until recently I never replaced the crush washers and never had issues. I've recently started replacing them at every oil change.... because I know I should.

 

[gman2304]

I've never used a crush washer on any of my vehicles oil drain plugs and never had a leak...! I've owned my 95 Nissan d21 4x4 truck since new...I've been so misguided all these years! I'll start using them next oil change. Really...I will!

 

[y_p_w]

I just went out and got a bunch. I had time to kill and was bored, so if I saw an open auto parts store I went in and asked if they had a loose box. Most did - usually just one box, and I was always told that anything else they'd have to ask what vehicle. One Napa store had only a box with loose SAE sizes in copper for a quarter each. I found another place with mostly copper and all at 91 cents. I needed some 18mm for my wife's Civic, so I figured it was cheaper than the $3 that most dealers charge for an equivalent aluminum gasket sold as a bagged single. Also - the prices that Napa online shows are way different than what the store has. When I got there and asked about Honda drain gaskets, the only thing that showed up was a bag of 10 aluminum for more than $6.

Also - I've got some vehicles that take M12 and my Subaru uses an M20, so I ordered two bags of 25 each from Grainger. They were sold as generic sealing washers of 1.5mm thickness. The M12 was pretty cheap, although I paid $2 more for 20mm O.D. (about $7). The M20 was maybe $11.50. I figure I'm set for a while. I don't like paying the dealer more than $1, and the Dorman equivalents I got seem to leak slightly.

So I'm also dealing with M18 gaskets for my wife's Civic's ATF drain plug that are a bit narrower (22mm O.D.) than the OEM 24mm O.D. ones. I've used narrow ones for oil changes. I figure it should be adequate. The guy at the parts counter said not to sweat it - that it should seal just fine.

 

[NormanBuntz]

My personal experience is this. Flat drain plug washers like those on Honda, Acura and Isuzu can be reused. Crush washers like those on Subaru, Nissan and Infiniti should not be reused because they are designed to compress or crush once. And using no crush washer opens the possibilities of an oil leak, a drain plug coming loose or a seized drain plug (allegedly). Washers serve a purpose and are cheap in bags of 10 or 20 on eBay.

 

[hypervish]

I've never replaced a crush washer. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but I can tell you none of them ever leaked any oil.

 

[y_p_w]

Got my orders in. I ordered some M14 washers for my wife's Civic. Actually got them at an Acura dealer because they had better online pricing. A Honda dealer had them for 70 cents but this Acura dealer was 31 cents. I also got a couple of oil drain bolts for $1.40 and an automatic transmission drain bolt to replace the one I rounded off when my socket wrench slipped. That thing is a [censored] to take off the first time.

And the order from Grainger was available the same morning. I understand Grainger doesn't always have the best prices, but I wasn't ordering for a business where I'd need 1000 and I didn't have to pay for shipping if I picked up the order in a store. So these were M12 and M20s. Turns out they were distributed by some company called Imperial Supplies LLC (of Green Bay, WI) and are labeled as made in Germany. They don't have a brand new copper luster like a shiny penny (and the M12s look like they've been around for a while), but I suspect that isn't important. When I was bored, I remember doing useless stuff like using metal polish on crush washers that looked dull. It's not like a lot of crush washers where you can tell which side has been the stamped side (slightly convex from the process), although it's like most crush washers where the edge is rough where the stamping process broke it off from the sheet. Both sides have slightly beveled outside edges. A few of these are bent, but I doubt that matters after they get flattened by a drain bolt. The supplier has an online catalog:

http://www.imperialsupplies.com/item/0377330
http://www.imperialsupplies.com/item/0377400

Their catalog refers to them as "vehicle parts & accessories".

http://www.imperialsupplies.com/pdf/vol21/page/N44.pdf

 

[ThirdeYe]

I've always replaced it in my car, but on my friend's 2.4L Camry I had to re-use it. The old one was so stuck to the bolt that I couldn't get it off. It isn't leaking, at least.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
I've always replaced it in my car, but on my friend's 2.4L Camry I had to re-use it. The old one was so stuck to the bolt that I couldn't get it off. It isn't leaking, at least.

What kind of washer? The ones that Toyota recommends are fiber and they shouldn't stick to anything. I've had crush washers stuck to the bolt or the pan. With the pan I might chip it off with a slotted screwdriver. On the bolt I'd use pliers or carefully pry it off with a knife. The factory original ones are often painted on. I did the first oil change on my parents' 2001 Camry (assembled in Kentucky) and that one had an aluminum washer coated with paper on both sides. Most OEM replacement oil pans come complete with a drain plug and washer that are painted on like you'd see from the factory.

 

[wn1998]

I have never changed the crush washer on my wifes versa. She now has almost 60k and no oil leaks. Maybe I'll change it next oil change and let it ride another 60k.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: wn1998
I have never changed the crush washer on my wifes versa. She now has almost 60k and no oil leaks. Maybe I'll change it next oil change and let it ride another 60k.


Sacrilege! You probably don't whip up a $300 SnapOn torque wrench to torque that plug either. Your car must be oblivious to your "unprofessional" conduct with it, other way it would've exploded long time ago

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: wn1998
I have never changed the crush washer on my wifes versa. She now has almost 60k and no oil leaks. Maybe I'll change it next oil change and let it ride another 60k.


Sacrilege! You probably don't whip up a $300 SnapOn torque wrench to torque that plug either. Your car must be oblivious to your "unprofessional" conduct with it, other way it would've exploded long time ago

What can I say, some folks are just lucky...

 

[y_p_w]

Finally opened the bag of M20 copper washers to put in a compartment box I got my my assorted automotive stuff. I said many were bent. They bend back fairly easily. In handling them gently I think I might have slightly bent one or two. These are softer than aluminum. I'm pretty sure these are relatively pure copper, because enough impurities and it would be rigid like an old copper-tin penny.

 

[y_p_w]

Just as an aside, I remember my undergrad introduction to materials class. One prof who taught this class had a favorite demonstration about strain/work hardening. During the class on the subject, he'd bring in a copper rod about 1/2" thick and a foot long. It was soft annealed metal and probably weighed about a pound. He'd find a young woman in the class, and preferably one who was small and didn't look like a workout fiend. He asked her to bend it, and it was pretty easy. Then he would try and find a guy in the class who looked big - someone who looked like he lifted a lot of weights - and asked him to straighten it out. This guy tried and tried and couldn't get it back straight again. I think anyone strong enough to bend it back probably would have snapped it rather than bend it back. It had been strain hardened with a single bend and it wasn't coming back. You get a similar outcome with aluminum by cold working it, such as with cold-forged billets that are then machined into shape.