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Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315071 04/02/03 02:35 AM
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RobZ71LM7 Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Oldswagon:
Will the removable threads allow for the install of a 13/16"-16 thread filter? If so, then couldn't the tests be carried out with a GM style filter that has no bypass? AC PF-35 filter equivilants would be ideal as it takes both the bypass and the ADBV out of the filter. Plus, PF-35 style filters should be made by almost every filter company, and are generally easily available.

Ditto using PF35's/1218's would take a lot of guesswork out of the equation. I would gladly pay for and mail a couple filters to be tested if fundsare short.

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315072 04/05/03 09:52 PM
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myckee Offline
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I know you are busy, but when you get the time, could you do a test of one of the Fram Racing filters( HP1, etc)? They claim more flow. It will be interesting to see how these compare with the other fram filters you have tested.

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315073 04/05/03 11:00 PM
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BOBISTHEOILGUY Offline OP
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I just got the heater for the oil but have to run down and get a thermistat to install it. I've been working on building a variable 90volt p/s. been hard to find heavy enough diodes but I think I have it licked as I put my design on the motor today and it took off, so now I'm going back out there and doing the finishing touches like a more permenant wiring and such, installing the amp gauge and so forth. anyway, bear with me, hopefully be fully functional soon. Then we can talk about expanding out tests once we get complete with what I'm working with. Thanks.

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315074 04/06/03 03:30 AM
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Michael SR Offline
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looks like we're getting good, scientific data regarding filter flow. how about if someone else picks up where that leaves off and measures filtering ability?

is the problem with that the expenditure in oil analyses? or is there a free way for someone to figure out how many particles... hmmm... if we dumped a huge amount of dirt into the oil, would it be enough to see a weight change in the filter?

-michael

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315075 04/07/03 05:10 AM
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Daniel J. Stern Offline
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Howdy, all. First post here, glad I found the board.

I'm particularly intrigued with the tests you're doing, and will be most keen to see how the test protocol develops (hot oil, longer-duration tests, figuring out how to watch the bypass valve, etc.

I noted with particular interest the following statement in another thread:

quote:

When we test thousands of oil filters, using a more sophisticated version of your test procedures that accounts for variables, etc....we find that the problem is that the filters fall apart internally...and the media just
is not filtering the oil...its going around it or through the
gaps/penetrations

I'd hope that most any reasonably reputably-branded filter would not experience mechanical failure or breach like this when running cold oil for a limited time. I suspect that the internal damage described here occurs with hot oil over time, so the villified "cut 'em open and have a look" tests might not be a bad idea at intervals analogous to a typical tour of duty on an engine.

I'm a little dismayed that people (on Usenet, particularly) are already basing pronouncements of overall filter efficacy on this test, which has really only just got under way and hasn't yet returned any data that could support a conclusion about which filter is better than whichever other. Hopefully they'll continue to monitor these tests so they can update their recommendations as the data evolve.

Finally, I'm not sure, but it looks as though you may have chosen the filter design you're testing only because it fits your particular car. Nothing wrong with that! Two things, though:

First, remember to be wary of judging any filter in any manufacturer's line by the results produced by any other filter in that same manufacturer's line! Such comparisons are very frequently invalidated by vast differences in filter construction, materials, etc. within any manufacturer's line.

Also, I'd submit that you may want to run tests on one of the most popularly-used automotive oil filter types, the PH8A (Fram)/FL1A (Motorcraft)/L300001 (Purolator)/PF2 (AC)/etc. If you do so, my comparatively-obscure submission for inclusion in this category is the Chrysler Mopar 53020311, severe-duty oil filter. This filter is factory equipment on the V10-powered Dodge Rams, and my tests over the years, though considerably less scientific than those you're doing now, suggested excellent performance from it. I do know its baseplate is of a special low-restriction design, and would be curious to see how this affects its pressure-drop characteristics. These filters come from a Chrysler or Dodge dealer; I bought two this morning for $4.69/ea (US equivalent; I'm in Canada).

Finally, a thought about bypass valves: it would be interesting to compare the pressure drop figures obtained with cold oil to the bypass valve opening pressure spec for this filter design. That way, even before any method is developed for determining the status of the bypass valve, you could get a solid idea of whether each filter could be presumed to be operating in bypass mode (the alternative: An improperly-calibrated bypass.).

DS

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315076 04/07/03 05:40 AM
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Pablo Offline
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Mr Stern, sir. Good first post.

The only problem with you: You're another stinkin' Volvo owner!! [Embarrassed]

[Welcome!]

[Patriot]

Paul Seminara

[ April 07, 2003, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315077 04/07/03 06:30 AM
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Larry B. Offline
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Hello ,
As far as all the testing has been done , I am a bit confused , Should one consider using a filter with a greater drop in pressure at output thus indicating better filtration or should one consider a filter with less of a pressure drop at output due to better flow rate and better lubrication .. hmmm I will say I have been using a basic fram filter and have always heard a slight carckle upon start up , then switched to a motorcraft and hear nothing at startup .. comments Larry B. [Roll Eyes]

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315078 04/07/03 06:38 AM
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digitaldrifter91 Offline
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so many varibles like pressure and filtration makes it diffucult to actually choose the "best filter" in my world i am trying to go inbetween filtration and efficiency...still havent found the answer.

i used to use a fram and did get cracks on start up...bosch a little too..but not purolator. but im going to try them all.

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315079 04/07/03 08:31 AM
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Ken2 Offline
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Larry,
The decision is more complex. Filters can have high filtration efficiency and good flow if the filter maker chooses to use a better (higher priced) filter media. The size of the holes in the media determines the filtration efficiency. the number of holes of the correct size determines the flow.

We need test data that shows both pressure drop with hot oil to determine flow and particle counts to determine filtration efficiency.


Ken

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315080 04/07/03 09:16 AM
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Fillherup Offline
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Does this make sense?

On filtering vs flow rate, some of the filters tested have SAE rating for J806 or J1858. For example, the PUREONE has a beta ratio of 7.2 at 10 microns (J1858).

So just using the flow rates is a pretty good start, i.e you can start filling in a martix of flows vs filtering for the known filtering rates of the tested filters and get a overall picture of some of the tradeoffs of filter design, I hope.

Myself, I am hoping the hot flow rate of the PUREONE is better, since is has good filtering and is reasonably priced. The cold rate concerns me.

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315081 04/07/03 09:36 AM
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turbochem Offline
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quote:
The only problem with you: You're another stinkin' Volvo owner!!
I think the "problem" is that you advertise this place on other boards..... [Wink] You know, ones that talk about the best building material ever.....BRICK!! [Smile] Which, BTW, I haven't visited in forever!!

At least that's how I think I "found" this site... [I dont know]

It's all your fault....you Amsoil pusher!! [Patriot]

Al would be proud..... [Cheers!]

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315082 04/08/03 02:39 AM
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Daniel J. Stern Offline
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Pablo writes:

Mr Stern, sir. Good first post.

You take that back!

The only problem with you: You're another stinkin' Volvo owner!!

Wellll....kinda sorta not as much any more. I sold my 245Ti a day before the war started, and I haven't driven my 164 since last century. It's undergoing slow-as-petroleum-SAE-50-in-Alaska-in-January restification at OJ Rallye in Wisconsin.


DS

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315083 04/08/03 06:38 AM
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TheTanSedan Offline
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The Daniel Stern, the minor god of light and great headlamp relay kits? I can overlook the Volvo thing since you mentioned the DODGE! (He's got a great site, guys, PM me if you want the link).

As to filter submissions, Bob, if you would please be so kind as to indicate your desire, I'd be glad to send along a BALDWIN B2-HPG and a DONALDSON 169071 as my recent post wants information I'll likely not get otherwise for a PH8A substitution.

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315084 04/13/03 07:17 AM
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pedaltothemetal Offline
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This is a cool test to find the least restrictive filter. However the main restriction is the engine(hot or cold running), and unless the filter is extremely clogged and goes to bypass mode, there will always be enough filtered oil for the engine. So I'm interested in how many miles a filter will become dirty enough so it becomes the restriction and not the engine. Testing dirty high mileage filters will be intresting which ones can go the distance of extended drains.

Leo

Re: BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS #315085 04/13/03 09:47 AM
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OneQuartLow Offline
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Leo, pressure drop affects flow. Reaching bypass pressure differential earlier means there's more pressure drop across the filter and less flow at the same rpm. You're right, filtering efficiency is also important but that's another test.

David

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