K&N vs M1 media permeability data

jason07-1zzfe · Feb 25, 2003

Frazier Air Permeability was tested on both K&N and Mobil-1 oil filter media. Results are in CFM/sq. ft. @ .5 in. of water:

code:

K&N M1

1) 61.51 13.18

2) 64.06 13.18

3) 64.57 14.16

4) 60.46 14.02

AVG: 62.65 13.64

K&N media flows significantly more than Mobil1.

I also did a microscopic examination of the medias. I have a photo of the M1(but nowhere to host) and it is not impressive. M1 claims fiberglass fibers and I saw no evidence of that. Just a basic cellulose/synthetic blend media at an common ratio of about 85/15. K&N seemed to be about the same type but with a different and more consistent size of the cellulose fibers and more open pores.

Thanks to joee12 for providing the K&N filter.

ShootingStar · Feb 25, 2003

WOAH! So the test is saying that the K & N flows about 4 times better than the M1? Since these two filters SEEM to be on the extreme ends of the filtration spectrum for OTC filters, I wonder what a "normal/average" filter would look like. In other words, is the M1 too restrictive or is the K & N passing too much junk?

joee12 · Feb 25, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Jason Troxell:

Thanks to joee12 for providing the K&N filter.

It took three tries, to get a filter to Jason

but the results were well worth the $30 bucks I spent on filters. Jason, thank you very much for conducting this test. I will try to get the pictures posted somehow. -Joe

Patman · Feb 25, 2003

Very cool info! Any chance on doing more testing with other popular filters?

Pablo · Feb 25, 2003

Very interesting indeed.

We can assume that air flow will be as oil flow?

I would surely love to throw an Amsoil OF to this test. I'll pay.

jason07-1zzfe · Feb 25, 2003

Yes I am curious about other filters as well. I'll probably do a BMW filter media. May decide to do a couple more eventually too. Man this may get out of control...so many filters...!

Pablo, yes I see no reason why one media would flow well with air but not flow well with oil and vice versa. Air is a fluid essentially after all(obviously much thinner). I would test Amsoil media if you want to provide the filter.

As far as the K&N passing to much junk...that is a good question. But from analysis posted here and Terry's comments, I think I would choose flow over efficiency for an oil filter.

Greaser · Feb 25, 2003

Interesting to see a few more different filters done to get an average.What was the synthetic media made of in the Mobil if not fibre-glass?If a K&N can have that amount of flow and still get 20-25 microns out,what will the Mobil filter down to?They claim 10 microns.Find it abit unusual to get that much flow and good micron ratings as well...may-be I'm a bit synical from using K&N air filters and getting bad results(fine dust in the intake tube)..even though the air filters and oil filters are produced separately from different maufacturers.Would be nice to see a few more different brand of oil filters done..for sure!

Terry · Feb 26, 2003

M1 uses a polyester "synthetic " and cellulose blend paper, they advertise a glass mix in it but I have not verified that.

MOST oil filter makers buy their filter media/paper stock from the same suppliers.

I was under the impression

that K&N uses a heavy resin impregnated paper that filters real well at 15 to 20 um while allowing ALMOST uninterrupted flow.

dragboat · Feb 26, 2003

Now I am waiting to see how much OIL a AIR filter flows

Just kidding, thanks for the thread .

SilverStreak · Feb 26, 2003

So this confirms the flow claims of K&N. Now the real question becomes, how well does it filter? Again is high flow decent filtering better than high filtering and low flow?

vettenuts · Feb 26, 2003

Thanks for this test and posting the information. Additional tests would be very interesting.

Americanflag · Feb 26, 2003

I have heard the Mobil 1 works better with Mobil 1 synthetic oil. Is this possible? Perhaps the flow is better with synthetic?

GeorgeCLS · Feb 26, 2003

Dr. Lee Swanger (the Diesel Page) performed a very thorough oil filter comparison a while back and as I recall the K&N oil filter came out on the bottom right next to Fram in terms of filtration. Lee used a fairly comprehensive test methodology. The Mobil 1 oil filter came at the top, closely rated with several others. I will see if I can locate the test & results.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

dragboat · Feb 26, 2003

I can tell you the Pure One I used on a new 4 cylinder motor thats tight sure did a fine job for 7300 miles. It was only filtering 3.3 quarts of oil,doubt another 1.5 quarts would make much difference. Now I am back to using my factory filters up. Will see how they do but as time goes by it will loosen up a bit,hopefully not for another 100k or so

Greaser · Feb 26, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeCLS:
Dr. Lee Swanger (the Diesel Page) performed a very thorough oil filter comparison a while back and as I recall the K&N oil filter came out on the bottom right next to Fram in terms of filtration. Lee used a fairly comprehensive test methodology. The Mobil 1 oil filter came at the top, closely rated with several others. I will see if I can locate the test & results.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

I Would like to view this data

Americanflag · Feb 27, 2003

I would like to see any HARD DATA period on the Mobil 1 oil filter.

jason07-1zzfe · Feb 27, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Terry:
...I was under the impression

that K&N uses a heavy resin impregnated paper that filters real well at 15 to 20 um while allowing ALMOST uninterrupted flow.

Yes Poly fibers...

I would believe the almost uninterrupted flow part, but after this test I would have a very hard time believing the K&N will even come close the M1 as far as efficiency goes. In fact it's not possible using the type of media they are. I'd bet money on it.
Not that I think that matters as much. I'd pick K&N over the M1 any day. And I don't think I would ever use M1 now. But maybe a middle ground can be acheived with a basic OEM filter. I plan to test some media soon.

Greaser · Feb 27, 2003

Jason..you stated that the K&N comes no where near filtering ability as compared to the Mobil..of course this is an opinion..but you would pick the K&N over the Mobil...why...flow?What does the Mobil flow as compared to OEM?SAE tests say the Mobil will filter down to 10 micron with good flow.Do we have any data to disprove this?I use the Mobil in my 99 Cherokee with NO change in pressure readings on my dash gauge as compared to OEM...I'm going to try the Bosch Premium on my 01 TJ this week because there does seem to be a slight lag on the gauge as compared to OEM..may-be just a slow sender unit could be the culprit...who knows...but I like the 15 micron rating on the Bosch and will give it a try.

Americanflag · Feb 28, 2003

I very much like the idea of using a superior oil filter. And I would gladly pay the extra money for one.

I am also a fan of Mobil 1 (the company and the oil). However, they have not provided enough data to give me confidence in their filter at this point.

So, because I want to have a good filter, at this point I am staying with the Ford OEM Motorcraft. I think Mobil 1 needs to provide more data on their filter.

When I emailed them as to their flow rate, all they said was 3 gpm.

unDummy · Feb 28, 2003

Went to Kmart today and bought 3 Mobil1 oil filters for my car for $.75 each. Too bad they didn't have more. Find me a better filter for $.75!
Penske/Castrol were about $.40-$1. Grabbed some of those too

And I'll agree with the pessimists out there:
Is there a "frazier oil permeability test"?
And, how did you test the Mobil1 media to conclude that it was 85/15 blend of cellulose and synthetic(whatever synth means)?

K&N vs M1 media permeability data

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