high carbon brake rotors?

[Johnny248]

I just put some brakes on a guys Mountaineer who was fed up with cheap rotors warping over time. We put ProStop platinum high carbon rotors from PepBoys on it. The look like decent rotors. Come coated to prevent rust, thickness seems fine. They claim to be high carbon to reduce noise, overheating, and longer life.

I know other higher end brake company's offer the high carbon rotors, and OEMS use them also. These rotors are still made in China which is pretty normal. They were $66 each which is actually pretty inexpensive. I looked at some other options and the next lowest high carbon rotors I found were some Bosch rotors at $20 more per rotor. I'm wondering if they use "lesser" carbon than other high carbon, or if the metal quality is just not up to par with some of the others. Time will tell, but if they are what they claim, then they are a bargain.

Anyone have any experience or results?

 

[simplistic]

If it sounds to good to be true it probaly is. Quality costs money, and you get what you pay for.

I would have him make sure whoever is rotating his tires are using a torque stick or wrench. I've ran rotors till they were worn to the discard limit without warping by using proper torque and sequence.

 

[CharBaby]

I love the idea of those Pro-Stop Rotors but again, who knows?
For many of my applications, they're way over priced...> $100 each. I can get any other name brand for less on RA or AAP w/code#. PebBoys got nothing that I can't get elsewhere for less. I seldomly shop there plus, their employees are grumpy!

 

[Johnny248]

For his mountaineer and my truck ( that I looked up out of curiosity ) the pro stop platinum rotors were a pretty good deal less than other premium rotors. Applications differ though. I do like that the hats are coated as well as the onside of the finds and back of the rotor also.

 

[Barkleymut]

Originally Posted By: simplistic
If it sounds to good to be true it probaly is. Quality costs money, and you get what you pay for.



And sometimes you just pay for the brand name, Bosch isn't exactly some mysterious backwoods operation with zero marketing costs and dozens of layers of middle management.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
I'm wondering if they use "lesser" carbon than other high carbon, or if the metal quality is just not up to par with some of the others.

I had to laugh when I read this. Not at Johnny, but at Prostop's marketing. I used to be involved in rotor design with respect to alloys. Nearly all rotors I'm familiar with - probably 98% of the vehicle market - are made of grey cast iron. It is probably one of the oldest alloys and is cheap to make. It has roughly 2.5% carbon by weight in the alloy. Rotor chemistry is held to a sweet spot to provide a compromise of many different requirements for performance, and to provide a minimum graphite flake size in the matrix for noise damping characteristics.

For a manufacturer to advertise that their produst is "high carbon" infers either that everyone else doesn't know how to control their alloy chemistry, or that they themselves are poorly controlling their alloy, or that they're lying. There is no advantage to having a "high carbon" rotor. Carbon is an incredibly cheap alloy addition that no steelmaker or foundry would skimp on.

Carbon is carbon. No one carbon is lesser than any other carbon, just as no oxygen is lesser than any other oxygen.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
I'm wondering if they use "lesser" carbon than other high carbon, or if the metal quality is just not up to par with some of the others.

I had to laugh when I read this. Not at Johnny, but at Prostop's marketing. I used to be involved in rotor design with respect to alloys. Nearly all rotors I'm familiar with - probably 98% of the vehicle market - are made of grey cast iron. It is probably one of the oldest alloys and is cheap to make. It has roughly 2.5% carbon by weight in the alloy. Rotor chemistry is held to a sweet spot to provide a compromise of many different requirements for performance, and to provide a minimum graphite flake size in the matrix for noise damping characteristics.

For a manufacturer to advertise that their produst is "high carbon" infers either that everyone else doesn't know how to control their alloy chemistry, or that they themselves are poorly controlling their alloy, or that they're lying. There is no advantage to having a "high carbon" rotor. Carbon is an incredibly cheap alloy addition that no steelmaker or foundry would skimp on.

Carbon is carbon. No one carbon is lesser than any other carbon, just as no oxygen is lesser than any other oxygen.


Thanks for the explanation.

Could you comment on the composition of "damped iron?" I was told that many OEMs utilize damped iron for their rotors, whereas most aftermarket rotors are only using G3000 compliant iron.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
I'm wondering if they use "lesser" carbon than other high carbon, or if the metal quality is just not up to par with some of the others.

I had to laugh when I read this. Not at Johnny, but at Prostop's marketing. I used to be involved in rotor design with respect to alloys. Nearly all rotors I'm familiar with - probably 98% of the vehicle market - are made of grey cast iron. It is probably one of the oldest alloys and is cheap to make. It has roughly 2.5% carbon by weight in the alloy. Rotor chemistry is held to a sweet spot to provide a compromise of many different requirements for performance, and to provide a minimum graphite flake size in the matrix for noise damping characteristics.

For a manufacturer to advertise that their produst is "high carbon" infers either that everyone else doesn't know how to control their alloy chemistry, or that they themselves are poorly controlling their alloy, or that they're lying. There is no advantage to having a "high carbon" rotor. Carbon is an incredibly cheap alloy addition that no steelmaker or foundry would skimp on.

Carbon is carbon. No one carbon is lesser than any other carbon, just as no oxygen is lesser than any other oxygen.


Its been proven that there are a lot of inferior Chinese brake rotors out there that are not the same quality as oem or other rotors. So I wouldn't be surprised my some of the metallurgy that goes on when it comes to cheap rotors.

This is from EBC which is considered a respectable company.

http://ebcbrakes.com/ebc-high-carbon-brake-discs-for-performance-driving/

 

[KrisZ]

I would imagine that the casting process has a lot more to do with quality of rotors than the metallurgy, unless the impurities are out of control.