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#3128297 - 09/18/13 06:51 AM GF-6 delayed again
jake88 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 146
Loc: MO
http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article002788089.cfm?x=bmM3gHT,bpcHqJDR

Getting a robust new engine oil category, but it is taking a lot longer than expected...

Thoughts?
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#3128338 - 09/18/13 07:37 AM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: jake88]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 6375
Loc: Michigan
I didn't realize how many new tests were being developed for GF-6. And with new tests being developed for PC-11, no wonder things are stretching out. I wonder if this will affect introduction of the 16-weight?
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#3128479 - 09/18/13 10:27 AM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: A_Harman]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13080
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I didn't realize how many new tests were being developed for GF-6. And with new tests being developed for PC-11, no wonder things are stretching out. I wonder if this will affect introduction of the 16-weight?



Unsure. The weighting is an SAE thing so there's technically nothing stopping them from offering it. We already have a few 0w15s.
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#3129280 - 09/19/13 07:05 AM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: dparm]
jake88 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 146
Loc: MO
SAE already approved the 0W-16, but I am not sure that many marketers/OEMs are going to be jumping out there with SAE 0W-16 grades until there is a lot of data on the new engine test stands. The rumor I have heard from industry folks is that the 0W-16 is being met with a lot of skepticism from all but one or two OEMs
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#3131477 - 09/21/13 10:19 AM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: jake88]
RF Overlord Offline


Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 3665
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
We are all "just" getting used to 0W-20...introducing 0W-16 so soon may be premature.

Related question: Since we all accept that these new "thinner' oils were introduced for fuel economy, how much improvement can be squeezed from using ever-thinner oils?

Please note: I am not claiming 5W-20 et. al. have no value other than fuel economy. I accept that it's been proven they are good oils, I just don't know how much more improvement there is to be had from 0W-16? Are we destined to spend $500 more per engine in redesign costs to save 0.01% in fuel costs?
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#3132142 - 09/22/13 07:35 AM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: RF Overlord]
David1 Offline


Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA, FLA
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
We are all "just" getting used to 0W-20...introducing 0W-16 so soon may be premature.

Related question: Since we all accept that these new "thinner' oils were introduced for fuel economy, how much improvement can be squeezed from using ever-thinner oils?

Please note: I am not claiming 5W-20 et. al. have no value other than fuel economy. I accept that it's been proven they are good oils, I just don't know how much more improvement there is to be had from 0W-16? Are we destined to spend $500 more per engine in redesign costs to save 0.01% in fuel costs?



what about 0 w 5

or 0 w 0

is that even possible?

0 w 0

?????????????
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#3133008 - 09/23/13 12:15 AM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: jake88]
901Memphis Online   content


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 12403
Loc: Northern Kentucky
There was a neo 0w5 and maybe more out there for racing.
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#3133010 - 09/23/13 12:19 AM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: jake88]
901Memphis Online   content


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 12403
Loc: Northern Kentucky
http://paceperformance.com/i-6303128-rpm04205-royal-rurple-xpr-3-1-0w5-synthetic-racing-motor-oil-1-gallon-bottle.htmlttp://www.bakerprecision.com/neo/0w5.htm

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=11&pcid=1


http://m.summitracing.com/search/brand/l.../oil-weight/0w5



.
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#3133349 - 09/23/13 11:16 AM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: David1]
NateDN10 Offline


Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 1685
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: David1



what about 0 w 5

or 0 w 0

is that even possible?

0 w 0

?????????????

The "weights" are standards classified by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). SAE 16 is the thinnest and most recent standard. There are no official SAE standards below this. So it's certainly possible to make a thinner oil, it wouldn't have an official SAE number.
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#3133545 - 09/23/13 02:53 PM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: NateDN10]
jake88 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 146
Loc: MO
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Originally Posted By: David1



what about 0 w 5

or 0 w 0

is that even possible?

0 w 0

?????????????

The "weights" are standards classified by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). SAE 16 is the thinnest and most recent standard. There are no official SAE standards below this. So it's certainly possible to make a thinner oil, it wouldn't have an official SAE number.


Indeed, anything lighter than an SAE 16 is not really classified as a multi-grade oil. For instance an oil with a [email protected] of 4.5 would just be labeled as whatever winter-grade number the cold-flow properties dictate (e.g. SAE 0W)
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#3134366 - 09/24/13 11:31 AM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: jake88]
vinu_neuro Offline


Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1061
Loc: Chicago / IN
SAE papers published by big name formulators last year showed very serious durability issues with 16wt, 5-6 times the wear in IVA compared to 20wt.
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#3134518 - 09/24/13 12:51 PM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: vinu_neuro]
jake88 Offline


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 146
Loc: MO
I am in total agreement on the accelerated wear issue. What good is an increase of <1mpg if it significantly shortens the life of the engine?... then again, if I was in the business of selling new engines I may sing a different tune.
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#3134828 - 09/24/13 04:50 PM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: jake88]
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: jake88
I am in total agreement on the accelerated wear issue. What good is an increase of <1mpg if it significantly shortens the life of the engine?... then again, if I was in the business of selling new engines I may sing a different tune.

That <1 mpg for an entire fleet really adds up when it comes to CAFE fines and credits. It's probably cheaper to just replace a few dozen engines than to risk losing credits or paying fines.

Subaru is having consumption issues with the new Forester and Impreza engines that spec 0W-20. I've been reading about engine replacements, re-ring jobs on 2014's, lemon law buy-backs, etc. I guess Subaru/Fuji Heavy still has some work to do on building engines that run on thin oils (although the Euro sub 2.0 engines have specced 0W-20 for years).

I hope GF-6 is delayed or revised to remove 0W-16.

-Dennis


Edited by bluesubie (09/24/13 04:51 PM)
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#3134838 - 09/24/13 04:58 PM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: jake88]
vinu_neuro Offline


Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1061
Loc: Chicago / IN
Honda is biggest proponent I think. Even if it comes through doesn't mean the other OEM's will adopt it.
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04 Honda Accord Coupe V6 6MT | M1 EP 0W-20

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#3135607 - 09/25/13 12:08 PM Re: GF-6 delayed again [Re: jake88]
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: NJ
I guess SoA saw my rant above.

http://techinfo.subaru.com/static/whatsNew.html

02-145-13 Technical Service Bulletin Surface Treatment Change To Oil Control Piston Rings (2012-2013MY Impreza and 2013MY XV Crosstrek) Sep 25, 2013 [View PDF]

02-144-13 Technical Service Bulletin Surface Treatment Change To Oil Control Piston Rings (2012-2014MY Forester) Sep 25, 2013 [View PDF]

Bring on the 0W-16? laugh

-Dennis
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