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#3127268 - 09/17/13 07:44 AM Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE
JZiggy Offline


Registered: 10/12/10
Posts: 759
Loc: GA
Hey guys,

I'm the proud owner of a 1988 4Runner with the 22RE 4-banger. Recently it has been acting up on me (obviously not getting enough attention). I've followed the troubleshooting rabbit trail about as far as it will go so I am looking for advice.

The truck starts and runs perfectly fine when cold. Once hot, the engine will crank over but not start. After it cools for an hour or so, it will restart easily. This issue is very consistent.

When it refuses to hot-start, I can spray a small amount of starting fluid into the throttle body and then it will start and run without issue.

Here are a few things I've ruled out:
- Ignition is good, spark is hot blue even when cranking hot.
- Fuel pressure is good (40psi) [only checked when cold, need to confirm when hot]
- I have swapped/borrowed multiple electronic components and none of them have changed the issue, including: engine coolant sensor, air flow meter, circuit opening relay, ECU, coil & igniter.

It appears that the injectors simply are not firing when the engine is cranking when hot. I just got a stethoscope and will try to better understand what the injectors are doing.

One other oddity is that the engine does crank over slowly. Battery is brand new and reads high voltage. Grounds are good. Starter is brand new. Starter cable has good contact between both battery and starter terminal. Could this be a failing ignition switch?

Any further ideas would be helpful.
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#3127271 - 09/17/13 07:57 AM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: JZiggy]
rjundi Offline


Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 7256
Loc: USA
I have a good memory for useless things. Long ago I had a 89 Pickup with 22re same issue. It related back to the cold start injector working when the engine was warm already essentially floody it. Maybe faulty coolant temp sensor. Good luck
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#3127277 - 09/17/13 08:02 AM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: JZiggy]
JZiggy Offline


Registered: 10/12/10
Posts: 759
Loc: GA
Thanks for the idea. One thing I tried was putting 12V across the cold start injector while hot-cranking. This actually helped it start, so the issue feels more like a lack of fuel than a surplus.

But this does confirm that I need to look more closely into what the cold start injector is doing as well.
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#3127314 - 09/17/13 08:43 AM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: JZiggy]
Danno Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 1341
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
Suggest checking that fuel pressure when hot. Could be a faulty fuel pump.

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#3127356 - 09/17/13 09:20 AM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: Danno]
nitehawk55 Offline


Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1078
Loc: Ontario , Canada
Originally Posted By: Danno
Suggest checking that fuel pressure when hot. Could be a faulty fuel pump.


I was going to suggest fuel pump as well .
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#3127508 - 09/17/13 12:03 PM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: JZiggy]
meep Offline


Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Southeast
or pressure regulator. or if that engine has the rubber pulsation damper, that thing could be cracking and losing fuel pressure as well.

might try experimenting by keying on/off a few times to build pressure, then crank.

love the 22RE....
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#3127518 - 09/17/13 12:12 PM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: JZiggy]
JZiggy Offline


Registered: 10/12/10
Posts: 759
Loc: GA
Thanks, already getting some great ideas from you guys. Will keep you updated as I troubleshoot more today.
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#3127987 - 09/17/13 08:08 PM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: JZiggy]
JZiggy Offline


Registered: 10/12/10
Posts: 759
Loc: GA
Fuel pressure is good when the engine is hot or cold.

I can hear the injectors clearly with a stethoscope. When the engine is cranking, hot or cold, they do not fire. Once it starts, they rattle away like they should.

My theory is that the cold start injector helps it get going when cold. Once hot it doesn't kick on so the engine has no fuel at all.
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#3128769 - 09/18/13 04:00 PM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: JZiggy]
another Todd Offline


Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 2087
Loc: Lakeside CA
I had the exact same problem with a 1982 Celica with a 22R. The problem in my case was a bad ignition pickup in the distributor. You can test it by getting it hot so it fails, then spray the pick up under the rotor with a NON FLAMMABLE liquid with a low boiling point to quickly cool the part then try it. Back then I used Freon, but now you will have to find something similar, like CO2, and make sure you spray it with liquid, the gas won't cool much.
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#3128771 - 09/18/13 04:02 PM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: JZiggy]
another Todd Offline


Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 2087
Loc: Lakeside CA
duplicate post deleted.


Edited by another Todd (09/18/13 04:02 PM)
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#3128784 - 09/18/13 04:16 PM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: JZiggy]
JZiggy Offline


Registered: 10/12/10
Posts: 759
Loc: GA
Thanks Todd. I had ruled out the dizzy because I was getting spark. I suppose it could also affect the signal to the ECU regarding the injectors.
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#3129734 - 09/19/13 02:50 PM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: another Todd]
paulo57509 Offline


Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 1909
Loc: Tracy, CA
Originally Posted By: another Todd
I had the exact same problem with a 1982 Celica with a 22R. The problem in my case was a bad ignition pickup in the distributor. You can test it by getting it hot so it fails, then spray the pick up under the rotor with a NON FLAMMABLE liquid with a low boiling point to quickly cool the part then try it. Back then I used Freon, but now you will have to find something similar, like CO2, and make sure you spray it with liquid, the gas won't cool much.


My off topic reply for the day:

You can use those canned air dusters. Just spray them inverted and you'll get a really nice frosty stream.
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#3129754 - 09/19/13 03:21 PM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: JZiggy]
another Todd Offline


Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 2087
Loc: Lakeside CA
Yeah, if your getting spark, that should rule out the pick up. Good luck.
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#3130397 - 09/20/13 07:48 AM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: JZiggy]
JZiggy Offline


Registered: 10/12/10
Posts: 759
Loc: GA
Update:

Fuel pressure is perfect.
Spark is good.
Injectors get a signal (verified with noid light) but do not fire when engine is cranking. It has nothing to do with hot/cold.

If the injector solenoid resistor is bypassed (thereby eliminating ~3 ohms from the circuit), the injectors fire perfectly.

Since the resistor readings are in spec, my gut tells me now that it is the ECU. The leads that go to the ECU get a solid 12V where it needs it and have very good grounds also where it needs it.
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#3132395 - 09/22/13 12:53 PM Re: Bizarre Starting Issue - 22RE [Re: JZiggy]
kc8adu Offline


Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 551
Loc: dayton oh
i would look to the coolant temp sensor first.
ecm bases its startup strategy by it.
would you believe that more than half of the ecm's sent to me for repair have nothing wrong with them?

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