2015 BMW M4

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dparm

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2015 BMW M4 Concept Coupe

Based on what we've seen in previous BMW M "concepts", this is probably 99% representative of the final production model. Full reveal is this weekend.

Rumor is a tri-turbo I-6: 415hp, 400lb-ft of torque. Probably going to be about 300 lbs less than the outgoing E9x series, meaning it could clock in at 3400lbs (yet packing an extra 100lb-ft of torque)!

This "tri-turbo" setup is likely to be the standard twin-turbo (like the new M5 & M6) with an electric turbo assist.

The exhaust/engine sounds I've heard so far are a disappointment, though. It will probably have the ridiculous "engine sound through the stereo" thing, i.e. $1500 in electronics to cancel out 500 lbs of sound deadening. The turbos muffle everything and the amazing rumble of the V8 is of course gone...that seems to be slowly driving the prices UP on the used E9x M3.
 
BMW's last naturally aspirated car on the US market is the 2013 128i. My interest in BMW's model lineup will die with it.

I don't think there's any reason to suspect that the M4 will have to play engine sounds through the stereo. Remember that the 1M is also turbocharged, and it doesn't have that system. The F10 M5 was a different scenario because the F10 is very large and based on the 7-Series (which is inherently quiet with or without sound deadening AFAIK).

This engine will look more like the 1M's than the M5's. It's an inline-6, remember. Which reminds me -- every time I read that this car represents the "return of the inline-6," I want to shake the author for missing the point of nostalgia for the old M3 engines. It's not because they're inline-6s; it's because they're awesome in ways that, incidentally, are impossible to replicate with turbocharging. The S65 ticks those boxes just fine with 8 cylinders in a V.

I strongly suspect that an S65 swap kit will be available for this car before too long. That's what I'd do, anyway...

My outstanding question is whether it'll be available with a manual transmission -- and if so, whether that transmission will be an insultingly old unit like the F10 M5's...

For disclosure, I'm violently allergic to any transmission arrangement that doesn't have a clutch pedal, and I really do think BMW should make a naturally aspirated 9k+ RPM flat-plane crank V8 for cars like this, so I'm probably very biased...
 
Originally Posted By: Hermann
What the heck ever happened to simple.
mad.gif


1. People don't want engines that they have to rev to get power out of.

2. The SUV craze ruined fuel economy and emissions averages, and forced ALL cars to be bigger and heavier for crash compatibility. That means engineers have to do crazy things to keep upping the horsepower ante while improving fuel economy, even on cars that aren't built with the everyday commuter in mind. If there were a lot fewer big vehicles on the road, little or none of this would be necessary.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
BMW's last naturally aspirated car on the US market is the 2013 128i. My interest in BMW's model lineup will die with it.


A lot of interest in a lot of models from a lot of manufacturers will be dying then, because small, forced induction engines will become more and more of the norm.

I love the sound of my 135im, and it has two turbos. An electric turbo (seems like a gas turbine without the power turbine and combustor, operated in reverse) is an interesting concept, complex, but who knows what it does to the sound. Much? Anything?

Lots were fans of BMW I-6 engines and thought that the V8 and V10 engines were a bad deviation from what they should be building.

That sound through the stereo is very silly, IMO.
 
I too would love a simple, down to earth RAW version. None of that 1,000 pounds of luxury stuff they add to it and jack up the price $20,000...
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Hermann
What the heck ever happened to simple.
mad.gif


1. People don't want engines that they have to rev to get power out of.

2. The SUV craze ruined fuel economy and emissions averages, and forced ALL cars to be bigger and heavier for crash compatibility. That means engineers have to do crazy things to keep upping the horsepower ante while improving fuel economy, even on cars that aren't built with the everyday commuter in mind. If there were a lot fewer big vehicles on the road, little or none of this would be necessary.


what would you want separate roads for commercial traffic?
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
I too would love a simple, down to earth RAW version. None of that 1,000 pounds of luxury stuff they add to it and jack up the price $20,000...



They sort of offered that towards the end of the current E92 run. The car could be ordered with manual non-heated cloth seats, non-adjustable suspension, 18" wheels, non-metallic paint, no keyless entry, no navigation, etc. Go to BMW's website, do a "BYO" and pick no options. Saves you about $16k over a fully loaded one.

They also offered the more track-focused GTS, CRT, and Lime Rock versions (though not in all geographies).
 
They have evolved to a more profitable and less particular client base. Their newer models have little to offer the older enthusiast, but instead appeal to the gadget crowd who is far more interested in the toys to play with instead of driving.

As stated above, just more food for the service department, ridiculously complicated vehicles at ridiculous prices. Maybe at some point they will adopt the 'retro' craze and turn out some replica 2002's? Oh well, we can dream...
 
Meh I don't understand the point of all those turbo's, throttle response? Seems like they could simplify things and acheive the same thing with a single variable vane turbo...or just do what BMW does best and build a sublime NA I6 that revs to the sky and sounds amazing.

Either way I'll take the C63 AMG thanks, AMG doesn't have to pipe the exhaust sound into the cabin. That NA V8 sounds filthy, more so with the upgraded SLS guts and an open exhaust.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
I too would love a simple, down to earth RAW version. None of that 1,000 pounds of luxury stuff they add to it and jack up the price $20,000...


Buy an older M3 or M5. I still think BMW reached their peak in 2000 and now just add gadget [censored] to appeal to the Xbox gen who really don't want to drive.

A late 80's M6 is still my idea of the perfect BMW GT car, and in 10 years will be worth more than a new M anything.
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Meh I don't understand the point of all those turbo's, throttle response?



They want to reduce the "negatives" of a turbo (namely lag) while building on the positives (efficiency/more power from a small motor). Can't say I blame them given the increasingly-strict EPA requirements for fuel economy.

BMW is all about "efficient dynamics" now. A turbo makes a motor more efficient -- their engineers would argue they can get as much power as a V8 with a V6, so why not do it?
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Hermann
What the heck ever happened to simple.
mad.gif


1. People don't want engines that they have to rev to get power out of.

...

I do. It's thrilling.
 
Originally Posted By: gofast182
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Hermann
What the heck ever happened to simple.
mad.gif


1. People don't want engines that they have to rev to get power out of.

...

I do. It's thrilling.


Yep. A smooth progression of building power that climbs steadily to a wailing redline shift is a thrill that never gets old for some of us.

I personally avoid boosted motors. Their table flat torque curves just don't give me what I want.
 
I don't think there are enough turbos. Maybe they should have one or two for each cylinder. Yeah, a twin compressor sequential turbo for each cylinder is more the German way
27.gif
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Meh I don't understand the point of all those turbo's, throttle response? Seems like they could simplify things and acheive the same thing with a single variable vane turbo...or just do what BMW does best and build a sublime NA I6 that revs to the sky and sounds amazing.

Either way I'll take the C63 AMG thanks, AMG doesn't have to pipe the exhaust sound into the cabin. That NA V8 sounds filthy, more so with the upgraded SLS guts and an open exhaust.



A guy in my building has a C63 and it does sound pretty nasty. You can hear him coming from about 5 blocks away.

My personal favorite exhaust note has to be the Ferrari F430. It just sounds like pure-tuned excellence.
 
In some countries, cars are taxed by engine size, and creates an incentive to make denser engines.

I discussed this with some of my auto teachers and they found it interesting. I compared a 2002 Nissan Maxima against a 2002 Mazda Millennia SC. In the USA, you would pay $3000 just to have an extra complex engine, but somewhere else, you might save $3000+ in regulatory fees.

Other times, motorsports have rules for how you can make a N/A engine versus how you can make a turbo engine, and they sometimes need a street legal version of the race engine.
 
Originally Posted By: artificialist

Other times, motorsports have rules for how you can make a N/A engine versus how you can make a turbo engine, and they sometimes need a street legal version of the race engine.


The BMW S65 & S85 are actually race-derived. They're even made in the same factory as the BMW F1 motors.
 
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