Recent Topics
PolishAngel - Engine
by buster - 08/20/19 08:59 AM
Pennzoil Platinum HM 5w20 15 Jeep GC 3.6L
by 1nighttrain - 08/20/19 08:42 AM
Any Midweight Moto Guzzi Fans Here?
by Silverado12 - 08/20/19 08:31 AM
Central AC drain pump fail, flood
by LeakySeals - 08/20/19 06:38 AM
WiFi “bridge” to outbuilding
by dlundblad - 08/20/19 05:00 AM
Rental review : 2019 Dodge Charger
by FirstNissan - 08/20/19 12:14 AM
Truck diesel oil in Lawn mower (SAE30)
by Polyalphaolefin - 08/19/19 11:18 PM
Pinstripes Not Popular on Pickup Trucks?
by LoneRanger - 08/19/19 10:04 PM
More choices
by KeithS_NW_Ohio - 08/19/19 09:43 PM
INEOS to Surpass EXOM in PAO production.
by MolaKule - 08/19/19 09:17 PM
Need a miter saw
by JLawrence08648 - 08/19/19 09:01 PM
Using a 7.1 receiver with only 2 speakers
by Papa Bear - 08/19/19 08:44 PM
HD Sportster 5000 mi Red line PS 20w-50
by shanneba - 08/19/19 07:17 PM
College Football Time
by kstanf150 - 08/19/19 07:17 PM
Eco Plug oil drain plug
by passgas55 - 08/19/19 07:15 PM
Pep Boys Deals
by kstanf150 - 08/19/19 06:43 PM
MB229.5 and MB229.51
by Tikka - 08/19/19 06:35 PM
2019 Mazda 3 Recall....Wheels fall Off!
by Boomer - 08/19/19 05:43 PM
Newest Members
rangeseven, GNH82, BigMike61, 80Boxcar, gangan
69006 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
85 registered members (1foxracing, AdditiveOCD, Aero540T, 1nighttrain, Al, 10 invisible), 1,842 guests, and 21 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics293,554
Posts5,042,242
Members69,004
Most Online3,532
Jul 30th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 7 1 2 7
Toyota oil filter housing rant #3078265 07/27/13 08:05 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
G
greenjp Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
My mother in law comments this morning that she needs to take her 2010 Rav4 4 cylinder in for an oil change, I say don't bother I'll take care of it. (I've done a hundred or so over the years on my Saab, Saturn, couple Hondas, other random cars). Grab 5 qts of Castrol syn-blend and a PureOne filter from Advance for $23 on special. Note that the filter is a cartridge type, no biggie or so I thought.

So I get the car up and find that the filter cartridge is accessed from the underside (doesn't this defeat the apparent purpose?) and has a separate drain plug built into the cap. So I remove that, a little oil drains out. I then realize that there is no obvious way to remove the complete cap to replace the filter. Hop on the internet and determine it requires a special tool.

After a couple fruitless stops at auto parts stores I find myself at the nearest Toyota dealer, buying a friggen $30 wrench attachment, my rear end was quite sore on the drive home. Get home and finish the change without a problem, except that when you do get the filter housing cap off, another load of oil dumps out all over the place, a complete mess.

Now, I have no problem with specialized tools for special jobs (I have a $25 wiper arm puller that I've used exactly 1 time, it was worth every penny) but this is absurd. I'm a mechanical engineer with two master's degrees and I cannot think of a single valid reason for this setup aside from creating a difficulty for the DIY mechanic, thus driving business to dealer service and parts departments.

Immediately prior to working on the Rav4 I did my umpteenth oil change on my 2003 Saab 9-5. Standard screw on filter located on the bottom of the engine, just forward of the sump. Comes off with ease, drains cleanly right into the oil pan. That's the way it should be done.

So to whatever fool(s) at Toyota thought up this thing, go to [censored] shoot

ha ha.

jeff

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078274 07/27/13 08:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,024
R
redhat Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,024
I agree. The same thing happened to yours truly when hopping underneath a friend's Prius for the first time.

I don't see why a 1" nut wouldn't also suffice? ???


19 F150 2.7 - M1EP 5W-30, FL2062, 2k
17 Taurus Limited AWD - M1 5W-20, FL500S, 25k
87 Regal Limited - 20W-50 VR1 WIX 51042
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078281 07/27/13 08:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 23,032
Mr Nice Offline
Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 23,032
You have 2 Masters degrees.
Were you skipping class the day your professor was teaching common sense ?

Just kidding. LOL. smile

I would have not touched her car and let her take it in for an oil change.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078286 07/27/13 08:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,061
T
tommygunn Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,061
I don't know if this will work on your Rav4, but supposedly the new Camry's cartridge oil filter and housing is the same thread and gasket size as the old spin-on filter they used previously.

Therefore, you could convert to the spin-on filter easily.

But of course I don't know if you can do this with a Rav4, but at least 50% possibility you can.


i am a [censored] who hides behind bugmenot.
i also like applying negative pressure to a certain male appendage.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078294 07/27/13 08:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,159
G
GSCJR Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,159
Don't feel bad. Although I did not make a mess changing the filter, a couple of days after I did the OC I noticed oil spots on my driveway. Crawled under and noticed the filter housing is wet, so, I touched up the filter plug a little and wiped it down. A couple days after that episode, I notice the oil spot on the driveway getting bigger. This time I crawl under and the filter housing is wet again. I snug up the filter housing further and wipe it down. Later that week I was in a parking lot and noticed a massive puddle of oil directly below the oil filter housing, I crawl under the vehicle and the housing is dry and there is fresh oil on the ground. I run my fingers in it and smell it, it's not oil, it's clean ATF!, I think to myself, now what? I crawl completely under the hot vehicle and underneath is completely dry now. I suspect that the previous vehicle must have had some ATF poured into it and some spilled over in the parking lot. What are the chances of the ATF spill being right under the oil filter housing? Talk about an instant heart attack!


07 3.5L VQ35DE CEB 5w-30 Defense 6607 145KM
10 3.5L 2GR-FE AGIP SS XL 5w-20 ProSelect 27047 174KM
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: tommygunn] #3078299 07/27/13 08:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 114
U
ukmastermind Offline
Offline
U
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 114
I changed the oil on a '12 Camry 4cyl and the oil filter housing uses the same size, i think (I have a stack of oil filter caps for many makes), as my nissan filter. Aside from that, the plastic drian plug they provide and a 3/8 extension makes the job pretty easy and less messy. Also, the housing is metal. grin

P.S. I know the designs have changed atleast 3 x since 2009? it probably took many designs to finally get it right by 2012.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078301 07/27/13 08:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,514
M
Miller88 Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,514
The reason for these is so they can get more people into the Toyota dealer for oil changes, so people will sit in the show room while their vehicle is being serviced and will buy a new Toyota after 3 years.

All of the manufacturers do it.


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep XJ
01 F-350 4x4 5M
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078334 07/27/13 09:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 181
P
pennzoil_guru Offline
Offline
P
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 181
You can get it off with a standard 65 mm cap wrench IF the last person who did the oil change torqued the housing to the correct 20 ft/lbs. most lube shops and dealers tighten it so much, the standard cap wrench just slips off. I bought a tool off EBay for $19 that grips the raised areas on the housing. I use a torque wrench to tighten it to the 20 ft/lbs. it's easy to remove after that. Toyota claims less waste with this setup vs the old spin on filter. It is a huge PITA to remove it the first time without the tool


2011Toyota Matriix
2016 Nissan Rogue


Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078348 07/27/13 09:48 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,614
F
friendly_jacek Offline
Offline
F
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,614
You would have thought a true BITOGer would like that setup as there is no oil filter cutting to see the media.

The only thing is, it should be at the top of the engine (like VW diesels).

Toyota simply converted a traditional oil filter design to cartridge without moving it.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078396 07/27/13 10:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,509
T
The_Eric Online Content
Online Content
T
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,509
Oh, they're not that complicated.

On those, you remove the small cap on the underside of the cartridge housing. Then you take the plastic spigot adapter (provided with the filter, or at least Wix and Napa Gold) and stick it in the housing to drain it of it's oil. It does take a bit of force (swift application is best) to unseat the seal and snap the adapter in place. It's nice to have a section of hose slipped over the adapter nipple to direct the oil. After that, simply unscrew the housing and change the filter and o-ring.

Now I've used the aftermarket 67mm X 14 flute cap wrenches and they're no good. It's lucky that you ended up at the dealer as the genuine Toyota tool is much nicer.

Torque is 25nm or 18.3 ft/lbs. The poster who said the typical grease monkey will crank them down is right. Those guys do it out of ignorance and fear. Neither is the correct reason.


2005 Lincoln Aviator 4.6 DOHC
2000 Honda Accord 2.3
2001 Hyundai Elantra 2.0
1979 Ford F-150 351M
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078402 07/27/13 10:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,433
D
double vanos Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,433
Exact same thing as my '08 Mazdaspeed 3. For the life of me, I can't imagine why they put that smaller drain screw in the cap - hardly any thing comes out! Then you take off the main cap and look out Nelly here comes 2 cups of oil!

Crazy.

On my new Speed 3 Mazda switched back to the old screw on type filter, thank heavens!


Sabine Schmitz is the Queen of the 'Ring; Svetlana Kapanina is the Queen of the SKIES...
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: double vanos] #3078410 07/27/13 10:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,509
T
The_Eric Online Content
Online Content
T
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,509
Originally Posted By: double vanos
Exact same thing as my '08 Mazdaspeed 3. For the life of me, I can't imagine why they put that smaller drain screw in the cap - hardly any thing comes out! Then you take off the main cap and look out Nelly here comes 2 cups of oil!

Crazy.

On my new Speed 3 Mazda switched back to the old screw on type filter, thank heavens!



It's because there is a spring loaded valve on the other side of that cap. You have to unseat it to drain it.


2005 Lincoln Aviator 4.6 DOHC
2000 Honda Accord 2.3
2001 Hyundai Elantra 2.0
1979 Ford F-150 351M
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078417 07/27/13 10:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,509
T
The_Eric Online Content
Online Content
T
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,509
The drain adapter I'm talking about looks like THIS for the Toyota engine.


2005 Lincoln Aviator 4.6 DOHC
2000 Honda Accord 2.3
2001 Hyundai Elantra 2.0
1979 Ford F-150 351M
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078418 07/27/13 10:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,985
The Critic Offline
Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,985
This system is actually very clean. My 2011 Prius uses the same system.

With the proper cap, turn the cap SLOWLY until the cut-outs line-up with the correct part of the housing. Most of the oil will drain out. When you remove the filter, the mess should be minimal.


2011 Toyota Prius 1.8L - 195K - Idemitsu ZEPRO Adv. Moly 0W-20
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 138K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078442 07/27/13 11:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,050
J
JHZR2 Offline
Global Moderator
Offline
Global Moderator
J
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,050
Stupid, stupid design... Sounds very similar to my wife's vw which is set up the same way. Only difference is that it uses a standard filter socket thing available anywhere.

I love cartridges, but when they are up top like on my Mercedes, BMW and saab cars. Couldn't be a cleaner or more perfect way to change the filter.

The wife's I tears was the worst thou. That filter would spill all over everything and always make a mess. Charm of an engine, fortunately it was easy on oil at 7500 OCIs. Technically the filter was only to be done every other time.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078449 07/27/13 11:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,062
D
dishdude Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,062
Nothing beats the setup on the 2.2/2.4 GM Ecotec. Right on top of the engine, no special tools and not even a drop of oil when changing the cartridge.


2018 Challenger SRT 392 PUP 0w-40 Wix 57899XP
2018 GTI
2019 Tiguan
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078455 07/27/13 11:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
H
HTSS_TR Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
The cartridge filter housing should be on the top of the engine near the front, like the one in 2000 MB E430. It take less than 60 seconds to remove the filter holder, 1-2 minutes to replace the 4 o-rings and the cartridge filter.


'00 MB E430
'04 Honda S2000
'06 Volvo V70
'14 Honda Accord LX
"Throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry" Pope Francis
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: HTSS_TR] #3078602 07/28/13 08:03 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
G
greenjp Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
Heh, good replies everybody.

Eric, those are great tips I'll be sure to follow next time, thanks. It is ironic that you said "it's not that complicated" and then spell out a procedure that is much, much more complicated than necessary on a normal setup wink The fact that you have to follow a procedure like that to change the filter remains unforgivable bop

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078604 07/28/13 08:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,418
E
Eddie Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,418
Same deal with my Mazda CX7 except I used a $5 cap wrench to remove the canister cap. With practive it is a 10 minute filter change job and no spilled oil. Ed


2014 CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078781 07/28/13 12:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 974
T
Tones Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 974
I agree with Ed, every filter requires the right cap wrench, nothing special there. Its not a complicated change. I like it because there is less waste and no oil makes it to the garbage can. BTW, tightening the cap will not help it seal if it is leaking, there is no additional force put on the o-ring.


'18 Subaru Outback
'11 Toyota Corolla
'10 Honda Civic
'16 Ford F-150 Supercab 2.7TT
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078783 07/28/13 12:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,147
S
supton Online Content
Online Content
S
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,147
Love the setup on my vw, no getting under the car at all. Does not sound like I will like it when it comes time to deal with this on my Toyotas though.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 187k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 153k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 209k, his
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: pennzoil_guru] #3079320 07/28/13 09:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 148
L
lenjack Offline
Offline
L
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 148
Isn't it 64mm?


Any automotive problem can be fixed with a big enough hammer.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: lenjack] #3079510 07/29/13 05:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
J
JethroBodine Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
I get a kick out of threads where people who should never be working on cars try to use all of the wrong tools, never consult a service manual and go attempt even the simplest maintenance unsuccessfully and then flame the manufacturer. LOL

3 minutes on Toyota Nation would have given the OP the necessary information. You can get an Assenmacher filter cartridge tool on Amazon. Then if you purchase the factory filter element you get the plastic adapter that allows you to drain the cartridge before unscrewing it.

This is all spelled out with pictures in the factory service manual and probably the vehicle owners manual.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3079525 07/29/13 06:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,147
S
supton Online Content
Online Content
S
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,147
Oh come now. What's the point of using a filter element that can only be gotten to under the vehicle?

I just checked on my Tundra, and it does not spell out how to change the engine oil, just how to check it. Same cartridge setup. I'm not entirely sure that one should be required to obtain a service manual in order to change the oil. That seems just a bit over the top, don't you think?

What's more asisine is Toyota's method for checking ATF level in their WS transmissions...

To be fair, it's not even the OP's vehicle, he was doing a favor for the MIL.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 187k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 153k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 209k, his
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: lenjack] #3079538 07/29/13 06:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,220
C
ChiTDI Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,220
Originally Posted By: lenjack
Isn't it 64mm?


Yes it is.
A 65mm (more common in the toolbox) will work, just adapt for the extra mm. Turn the cap slightly at an angle, put a small piece of sandpaper between the filter and socket, etc...

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: ChiTDI] #3079546 07/29/13 07:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,509
T
The_Eric Online Content
Online Content
T
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,509
Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
Originally Posted By: lenjack
Isn't it 64mm?


Yes it is.
A 65mm (more common in the toolbox) will work, just adapt for the extra mm. Turn the cap slightly at an angle, put a small piece of sandpaper between the filter and socket, etc...


Yep.. I was mistaken on that one. 65mm X 14 flute.


2005 Lincoln Aviator 4.6 DOHC
2000 Honda Accord 2.3
2001 Hyundai Elantra 2.0
1979 Ford F-150 351M
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3079550 07/29/13 07:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,613
K
Kruse Offline
Offline
K
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,613
Originally Posted By: greenjp

So to whatever fool(s) at Toyota thought up this thing, go to [censored] shoot

ha ha.



Look on the bright side. It could have been a Toyota pickup where you had to remove a belly pan to get to the same filter.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: supton] #3079569 07/29/13 07:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
J
JethroBodine Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
Originally Posted By: supton
Oh come now. What's the point of using a filter element that can only be gotten to under the vehicle?



You mean like 90% of the vehicles out there? Like I said. I get a kick out of people who should never be working on cars and then think it is "unfair" when they have to get the proper tools for the job. However, most all trades require specialized tools. Plus, checking the ATF level on a Toyota trans is simple...if you have the correct tools and know what you are doing.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3079572 07/29/13 07:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
J
JethroBodine Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
Here is the "mystery tool"

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015PK3AG


LOL

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3079592 07/29/13 08:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,147
S
supton Online Content
Online Content
S
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,147
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Originally Posted By: supton
Oh come now. What's the point of using a filter element that can only be gotten to under the vehicle?



You mean like 90% of the vehicles out there? Like I said. I get a kick out of people who should never be working on cars and then think it is "unfair" when they have to get the proper tools for the job. However, most all trades require specialized tools. Plus, checking the ATF level on a Toyota trans is simple...if you have the correct tools and know what you are doing.


What can I say? The last 9 years I've been doing top-side oil changes on my VW. Once I started doing that, I've dreaded going back to having to crawl in the dirt.

Is checking the level that simple? Been a week or two since I read the proceedure. Off the top of my head:

-jumper two pins on the OBDII port together *OR* get a scan tool to monitor ATF temp.
-when the ATF is at 115F or thereabouts, and as long as the temperature is within a 7 degree F window (otherwise, let engine idle or cool until w/in this window):
-crawl under vehicle, remove check level bolt
-if the oil drips out, it is too low
-if it streams out, it is too high
-if the flow coming out is just right, then all is good.
-if you need to add oil, go find a hand pump to add via the fill hole, or find a tube to snake up into the engine bay, and of course watch out for hot exhaust.

I understand why Toyota did away with the dipstick, but that doesn't mean I agree with their decision to do so. Would any of us agree to no longer have an engine oil dipstick?

Last edited by supton; 07/29/13 08:16 AM.

2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 187k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 153k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 209k, his
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3079618 07/29/13 08:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,827
K
KrisZ Online Content
Online Content
K
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,827
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Originally Posted By: supton
Oh come now. What's the point of using a filter element that can only be gotten to under the vehicle?



You mean like 90% of the vehicles out there? Like I said. I get a kick out of people who should never be working on cars and then think it is "unfair" when they have to get the proper tools for the job. However, most all trades require specialized tools. Plus, checking the ATF level on a Toyota trans is simple...if you have the correct tools and know what you are doing.


Tools do not a good mechanic make. How do you know you should be working on cars?
You may watch that high horse of yours, as it may one day kick you down wink


2015 Grand Caravan 3.6L - 31k miles.
2006 Mazda 3 2.0L - 171k miles
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3079654 07/29/13 09:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,401
H
hatt Online Content
Online Content
H
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,401
Quote:
I'm a mechanical engineer with two master's degrees

Scenes from the Big Bang Theory keeps appearing in my head. Anyway, OP is a drama queen. It's not that hard. And I have zero master's degrees.

And for having the filter on the top of the engine. Doesn't that make for dry starts? My powerstroke 6.0 filter housing was always dry when I changed it. Clearly oil didn't stay up there when the engine was not running. How do these other designs deal with it?


2013 F150 5.0, Delo XLE CK-4 10W-30, Baldwin B7449
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 10W-30, Mobil1 M1C-251A
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3079659 07/29/13 09:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,147
S
supton Online Content
Online Content
S
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,147
Good question; no idea. On my VW the filter comes out sopping wet, and I wind up vacuuming out the housing. The oil cooler is right under the filter, and there's a good amount that can get pulled from there.

If I didn't have an idiot light for oil pressure then I'd know how long it took to come up to pressure... crazy

One good side to the top mount is that I can pour a huge amount of oil over the filter, akin to filling a spin on filter. But in this case it's pouring oil into the cooler too.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 187k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 153k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 209k, his
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: supton] #3079846 07/29/13 12:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
J
JethroBodine Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Originally Posted By: supton
Oh come now. What's the point of using a filter element that can only be gotten to under the vehicle?



You mean like 90% of the vehicles out there? Like I said. I get a kick out of people who should never be working on cars and then think it is "unfair" when they have to get the proper tools for the job. However, most all trades require specialized tools. Plus, checking the ATF level on a Toyota trans is simple...if you have the correct tools and know what you are doing.


What can I say? The last 9 years I've been doing top-side oil changes on my VW. Once I started doing that, I've dreaded going back to having to crawl in the dirt.

Is checking the level that simple? Been a week or two since I read the proceedure. Off the top of my head:

-jumper two pins on the OBDII port together *OR* get a scan tool to monitor ATF temp.
-when the ATF is at 115F or thereabouts, and as long as the temperature is within a 7 degree F window (otherwise, let engine idle or cool until w/in this window):
-crawl under vehicle, remove check level bolt
-if the oil drips out, it is too low
-if it streams out, it is too high
-if the flow coming out is just right, then all is good.
-if you need to add oil, go find a hand pump to add via the fill hole, or find a tube to snake up into the engine bay, and of course watch out for hot exhaust.

I understand why Toyota did away with the dipstick, but that doesn't mean I agree with their decision to do so. Would any of us agree to no longer have an engine oil dipstick?


You never "check" the fluid level on a Toyota sealed trans anymore. You set the level. Do this next time. Level the car when engine is cold. Open fill bolt and add 1/2 quart of ATF. Start car and allow to begin to warm up. IF you have a scan tool that will read the trans temp sensors (doubtful) then use that for ATF temperature to get to 114F. If not use an IR thermometer and scan the trans oil pan until you get a reading of 110F. With the engine idling now pull the drain bolt and allow ATF to drain until it becomes a trickle. Screw drain plug back in and tighten. You have just set the ATF to the correct level. If you are more than 1/2 quart low you may have an issue.

Last edited by JethroBodine; 07/29/13 12:36 PM.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: KrisZ] #3079853 07/29/13 12:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
J
JethroBodine Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Originally Posted By: supton
Oh come now. What's the point of using a filter element that can only be gotten to under the vehicle?



You mean like 90% of the vehicles out there? Like I said. I get a kick out of people who should never be working on cars and then think it is "unfair" when they have to get the proper tools for the job. However, most all trades require specialized tools. Plus, checking the ATF level on a Toyota trans is simple...if you have the correct tools and know what you are doing.


Tools do not a good mechanic make. How do you know you should be working on cars?
You may watch that high horse of yours, as it may one day kick you down wink


The proper tools are required to do the job correctly. You are simply incorrect. Today's automobiles are much more technically sophisticated that cars used to be. So you should not call out anyone who is simply advocating doing a job correctly because you disagree. BTW, I do not own a horse. Also, you don't own a Toyota so please troll elsewhere.

Last edited by JethroBodine; 07/29/13 12:42 PM.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: hatt] #3079859 07/29/13 12:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
J
JethroBodine Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
Originally Posted By: hatt
Quote:
I'm a mechanical engineer with two master's degrees

Scenes from the Big Bang Theory keeps appearing in my head. Anyway, OP is a drama queen. It's not that hard. And I have zero master's degrees.

And for having the filter on the top of the engine. Doesn't that make for dry starts? My powerstroke 6.0 filter housing was always dry when I changed it. Clearly oil didn't stay up there when the engine was not running. How do these other designs deal with it?


The 4Runner 4.0L V6 has a top mounted filter. Easy to change. You need a filter with a good ADBV. But if the OP truly has a MS degree then shame on him for not researching further what tools he would need. One look at the filter canister did it for me.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3079874 07/29/13 01:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,147
S
supton Online Content
Online Content
S
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,147
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine

You never "check" the fluid level on a Toyota sealed trans anymore. You set the level. Do this next time. Level the car when engine is cold. Open fill bolt and add 1/2 quart of ATF. Start car and allow to begin to warm up. IF you have a scan tool that will read the trans temp sensors (doubtful) then use that for ATF temperature to get to 114F. If not use an IR thermometer and scan the trans oil pan until you get a reading of 110F. With the engine idling now pull the drain bolt and allow ATF to drain until it becomes a trickle. Screw drain plug back in and tighten. You have just set the ATF to the correct level. If you are more than 1/2 quart low you may have an issue.


You're overlooking that you can short pins 4&13 on the OBD connector; once done the AT TEMP light will come on when the transmission is up to temp, and flash if the oil is too hot. Thankfully, I have a Scanguage which can read ATF temp also (have to add via an X guage); Ultragauge will read it too if you have a later version (early ones didn't, and you can't add it). Or if I could locate the old WinXP laptop we have (someplace) I could use a knockoff cable from eBay with some older version of Techstream (haven't tried yet). [The last one would be nice, mostly so I could "fix" the annoying seatbelt chime.]

Now that I'm looking at my notes it's a larger temp range, apparently 115F to 133F (46C to 56C), not as tight as I recalled. I do like the idea of adding extra ATF, then letting it drain down--not a bad idea.

Why check level? Only because I'm not quite sold on this being a "lifetime" fluid, much like others aren't. I'm sure it's wonderful stuff, but good for > 100kmiles? I'm pretty sure people here have done UOA's and WS isn't that magical. Even if you are only doing a pan drain you still have to check level afterwards.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 187k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 153k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 209k, his
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3079947 07/29/13 02:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,401
H
hatt Online Content
Online Content
H
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,401
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine


The 4Runner 4.0L V6 has a top mounted filter. Easy to change. You need a filter with a good ADBV. But if the OP truly has a MS degree then shame on him for not researching further what tools he would need. One look at the filter canister did it for me.
I'm talking about top mounted cartridge filters.


2013 F150 5.0, Delo XLE CK-4 10W-30, Baldwin B7449
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 10W-30, Mobil1 M1C-251A
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3080036 07/29/13 03:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,095
T
threeputtpar Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,095
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Here is the "mystery tool"

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015PK3AG


LOL


And I remember seeing someone post that you can order it at AAP. The part number is ASSTOY640. Insert dirty joke here. laugh


2013 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite - Havoline 5W-30 Syn / Mobil1 Filter 80k miles
2014 GMC Acadia Denali - SuperTech 5W-30 Syn / Carquest Red 22k miles (yes, that low)
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: threeputtpar] #3080046 07/29/13 03:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,401
H
hatt Online Content
Online Content
H
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,401
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Here is the "mystery tool"

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015PK3AG


LOL


And I remember seeing someone post that you can order it at AAP. The part number is ASSTOY640. Insert dirty joke here. laugh

Yep. Be sure to order in person and spell it out slow.


2013 F150 5.0, Delo XLE CK-4 10W-30, Baldwin B7449
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 10W-30, Mobil1 M1C-251A
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: supton] #3080128 07/29/13 05:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
J
JethroBodine Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine

You never "check" the fluid level on a Toyota sealed trans anymore. You set the level. Do this next time. Level the car when engine is cold. Open fill bolt and add 1/2 quart of ATF. Start car and allow to begin to warm up. IF you have a scan tool that will read the trans temp sensors (doubtful) then use that for ATF temperature to get to 114F. If not use an IR thermometer and scan the trans oil pan until you get a reading of 110F. With the engine idling now pull the drain bolt and allow ATF to drain until it becomes a trickle. Screw drain plug back in and tighten. You have just set the ATF to the correct level. If you are more than 1/2 quart low you may have an issue.


You're overlooking that you can short pins 4&13 on the OBD connector; once done the AT TEMP light will come on when the transmission is up to temp, and flash if the oil is too hot. Thankfully, I have a Scanguage which can read ATF temp also (have to add via an X guage); Ultragauge will read it too if you have a later version (early ones didn't, and you can't add it). Or if I could locate the old WinXP laptop we have (someplace) I could use a knockoff cable from eBay with some older version of Techstream (haven't tried yet). [The last one would be nice, mostly so I could "fix" the annoying seatbelt chime.]

Now that I'm looking at my notes it's a larger temp range, apparently 115F to 133F (46C to 56C), not as tight as I recalled. I do like the idea of adding extra ATF, then letting it drain down--not a bad idea.

Why check level? Only because I'm not quite sold on this being a "lifetime" fluid, much like others aren't. I'm sure it's wonderful stuff, but good for > 100kmiles? I'm pretty sure people here have done UOA's and WS isn't that magical. Even if you are only doing a pan drain you still have to check level afterwards.


I know about the pin connectors but use a IR thermometer because I usually have to do the job alone. It's a PIA to get up from under the car and watch the light.

But you can shut off the seat belt chime. You program it off with the odometer display. Go on Toyota Nation and look it up. I have shut it off on my last 3 vehicles. BTW WS is not a lifetime fluid. I won't go past 70k.

Last edited by JethroBodine; 07/29/13 05:29 PM.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: hatt] #3080133 07/29/13 05:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
J
JethroBodine Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Here is the "mystery tool"

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015PK3AG


LOL


And I remember seeing someone post that you can order it at AAP. The part number is ASSTOY640. Insert dirty joke here. laugh

Yep. Be sure to order in person and spell it out slow.


LOL...... crackmeup

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3080271 07/29/13 08:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,008
S
sciphi Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,008
One of the many things Chevy (well, Opel, Holden, and GM Korea) got right was putting a cartridge filter onto the Cruze. 24mm socket to get the cap off. Then replace the gasket, snap in the new filter, line it up, and snug it down until it is just barely tight.

Toyota needing a special adapter is silly.


2013 Toyota RAV4 XLE
2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: sciphi] #3080281 07/29/13 08:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
J
JethroBodine Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
Originally Posted By: sciphi
One of the many things Chevy (well, Opel, Holden, and GM Korea) got right was putting a cartridge filter onto the Cruze. 24mm socket to get the cap off. Then replace the gasket, snap in the new filter, line it up, and snug it down until it is just barely tight.

Toyota needing a special adapter is silly.


You don't have to have one. But the assenmacher one is cast aluminum and makes it really simple. It is an aftermarket tool. It pretty much eliminates the chance of ruining any of the filter cartridges.

Last edited by JethroBodine; 07/29/13 08:37 PM.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3080333 07/29/13 09:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,707
Hootbro Offline
Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,707
Total non issue if you had done your research and prep ahead of time.

All three of my Toyotas are cartridge filters and I do not find them to be a pain at all. Sure it is a few more steps and prep work but it is not like trying to split the atom in terms of difficulty.


2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon 3.6L (Factory Fill 0W-20)
2017 Jeep Renegade Latitude 2.4L (Idemitsu 0W-20)

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3080492 07/30/13 06:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,147
S
supton Online Content
Online Content
S
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,147
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine

But you can shut off the seat belt chime. You program it off with the odometer display. Go on Toyota Nation and look it up. I have shut it off on my last 3 vehicles. BTW WS is not a lifetime fluid. I won't go past 70k.


Thanks; will look into that (usually only drive truck on weekends).

Was hoping to change the 75kmile WS in the truck this summer, but just not going to happen too soon. I was going to but got overwhelmed by the task. Maybe in a couple weeks I will. What is your thought on WS vs Maxlife, if I may ask? Maxlife is about half the price.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 187k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 153k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 209k, his
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: supton] #3081082 07/30/13 05:21 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
G
greenjp Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
Heh, there are always a few of 'em.

Yes I have two Master's degrees, University of Maryland and Naval Postgraduate School. It makes me a well educated engineer but not an auto mechanic wink But, I'm certainly competent enough to change the oil on a car (see the hundred or so oil changes I've done and numerous other much more complex jobs on cars and motorcycles), and in hindsight I should have spent a little time researching this job ahead of time (as supton says, the owner's manual which I did consult provides no information).

However the point of my rant (which some of you didn't entirely get) was that there is no justifiable reason for an oil change job to require research - there are better ways for the manufacturer to design this particular maintenance procedure. The other cars I've done with cartridge filters didn't involve special tools or extra steps. It's a bad design.

Now bring on some more insults LOL

jeff

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3081111 07/30/13 05:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,322
P
PandaBear Offline
Offline
P
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,322
There are $10 tool in Toyota dealership made out of stamp steel that work just as great. I've bought a bunch and sold a bunch (but not enough profit to keep doing it anymore) and no one has ever came back to complain.


"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3081659 07/31/13 08:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
J
JethroBodine Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
Originally Posted By: greenjp

It's a bad design.


Define "bad".......... LOL

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: PandaBear] #3081661 07/31/13 08:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
J
JethroBodine Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
There are $10 tool in Toyota dealership made out of stamp steel that work just as great. I've bought a bunch and sold a bunch (but not enough profit to keep doing it anymore) and no one has ever came back to complain.



IIRC I have had to buy an oil filter wrench for many of my cars, boats and motorcycles...must be a lot of "bad" designs out there..... LOL

Oh darn...needed a 14MM wrench to loosen the drain bolt. They really should put a fumoto valve on all cars so you don't need tools at all.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3081678 07/31/13 08:44 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
G
greenjp Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
Like I said there's always a few of 'em shrug Glad I'm amusing you Jethro, keep working on your logical fallacies.

It's a bad design because it requires the following:
- special tool
- extra training
- unnecessarily complex procedure

As I've repeated and you've failed to absorb, a "good" filter design requires standard tools (this one was not found in my reasonbly extensive collection or at three auto parts stores, could only find the $30 one at the Toyota dealer. This alone establishes that this isn't exactly a standard item), no training (ie any half-competent person could figure it out without referencing a manual or the web, this is a routine maintenance operation), and fewer steps. I'll spare a lecture on design for maintainability and usability.

See the process on the GM Ecotecs, my old Saab, BMWs, MBs as referenced by previous posters for better examples. My motorcycle has a cartridge filter and it's extremely simple to replace. I get that you don't think this procedure is all that bad and perhaps it really isn't, but that doesn't change the fact that much better designs exist and no one has yet provided a decent justification for this one.

Now bring on some more lame putdowns! LOL

jeff

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3081705 07/31/13 09:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,974
K
kschachn Offline
Offline
K
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,974
Insults. Yeah, that's the way people who are insecure handle criticism of their beliefs.

But to the point, how do you know there is "no justifiable reason" for the design of this oil filter housing? So what if the other cars you have worked on don't have this design? What do you know about Toyota engineering? If that oil filter housing causes you so much grief you should never work on a BMW with all their "superior German engineering". You will have a stroke before you are done trying to remove the plastic radiator clips.

I guess those two masters degrees qualified you to read minds, or think you understand engine design better than Toyota.

And that's not an insult, it is a logical conclusion from your statements.

Originally Posted By: greenjp
However the point of my rant (which some of you didn't entirely get) was that there is no justifiable reason for an oil change job to require research - there are better ways for the manufacturer to design this particular maintenance procedure. The other cars I've done with cartridge filters didn't involve special tools or extra steps. It's a bad design.

Now bring on some more insults LOL

jeff


1994 BMW 530i, 246K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 420K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 281K
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: kschachn] #3081752 07/31/13 09:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,707
Hootbro Offline
Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,707
Originally Posted By: kschachn

I guess those two masters degrees qualified you to read minds, or think you understand engine design better than Toyota.

And that's not an insult, it is a logical conclusion from your statements.



People that flaunt their Academia credentials in that regard are setting up the preface that they know better and all other viewpoints are invalid. Common among engineers as I am one myself. I work with other engineers who have 140+ IQ's but wear shoes with Velcro strap laces.


2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon 3.6L (Factory Fill 0W-20)
2017 Jeep Renegade Latitude 2.4L (Idemitsu 0W-20)

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: Hootbro] #3081799 07/31/13 10:38 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
G
greenjp Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
And the hits keep coming. Funny how a simple story of frustration told with some hyperbole brings out the best in people hide

As I said, those two master's degrees make me nothing more than a well-educated engineer - certainly not a mind reader and I've already admitted it doesn't make me a mechanic. I'm happy to take my cars or bike in to a shop when I think a diagnosis or job is beyond my abilities (ie I know when other people know better than me). Simply mentioned it to establish that I have some reason for thinking I have insight into good design practices, just like saying that I've done a hundred oil changes establishes that I know how to change oil. You guys imagined & projected the rest.

As for thinking I know more than Toyota regarding engine design, I certainly wouldn't and didn't say that, you keep putting words in my mouth. We're only talking about oil filters here, and as I've said ad nauseum countless better examples exist and that's enough for me to render a judgement. I've yet to be presented with a single reason for why the Toyota design is a good alternative to the others. I guess I can't comment on this until someone from Toyota engineering chimes in?

To listen to some of you, it would be improper to question the design of anything on these cars - if BMW's radiator clips are stroke-inducing doesn't that suggest there's a better way? Could the same not be true of Toyota's oil filter housing? Haven't you ever found a procedure on one car to be more difficult and frustrating than the same on another? Been frustrated by some proprietary component?

FWIW I've found the cartridge filter on my aunt's 90's era 5 series to be perfectly good - easy access from the top, opens with a simple wrench, doesn't spill a drop. And replacing the window rollers on it wasn't any more difficult than the power window repairs I've done on other cars. Don't have much more experience with BMWs to evaluate the rest of their superior German engineering though grin

jeff

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3082035 07/31/13 03:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
J
JethroBodine Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
Originally Posted By: greenjp

It's a bad design because it requires the following:
- special tool
- extra training
- unnecessarily complex procedure


special tool- I have used a strap wrench on them
extra training- wrapping the strap wrench around the canister OR pushing the tool onto the canister.
unnecessarily complex procedure- lefty loosey/righty tighty

Ok you win........ LOL

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: kschachn] #3083436 08/02/13 01:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 656
M
moving2 Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 656
Originally Posted By: kschachn
How do you know there is "no justifiable reason" for the design of this oil filter housing? So what if the other cars you have worked on don't have this design? What do you know about Toyota engineering?


kschachn- and how do you know Toyota didn't use this design to lead more people into their dealerships for service / tools? This seems to be the more common sense answer vs. your hand-waving "magical engineering" assumption. Afterall, making the oil filter work with a standard oil filter wrench isn't rocket science.


'97 Lexus LX450 135K- PU 5w40
'94 Lexus LS400 111K- PU 5w40
'63 Dodge Travco 25K- Rotella T6 5w40
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3083437 08/02/13 02:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 656
M
moving2 Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 656
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine

special tool- I have used a strap wrench on them
extra training- wrapping the strap wrench around the canister OR pushing the tool onto the canister.
unnecessarily complex procedure- lefty loosey/righty tighty

Ok you win........ LOL


JethroBodine- and with all your ad hominem attacks and humorless insults, you lose.

greenjp's points stand:
Originally Posted By: greenjp

It's a bad design because it requires the following:
- special tool
- extra training
- unnecessarily complex procedure


Earlier Toyotas are much more easily serviced when it comes to things like oil changes and tranny fluid, and it has little to do with this magical oil filter related "technical sophistication" that you have yet to describe. It has more to do with bringing more customers in to dealerships. The fact you choose to ignore this possibility and instead point to some hand-waving "technical sophistication" without explanation only exposes your ignorance.

It's also funny (no, not really) that you never mentioned using a strap wrench in your earlier post, instead pointing to an aftermarket tool. You only bring it up now for another failed attempt at an insult. Sorry, you lose all around, my friend.


'97 Lexus LX450 135K- PU 5w40
'94 Lexus LS400 111K- PU 5w40
'63 Dodge Travco 25K- Rotella T6 5w40
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: moving2] #3083511 08/02/13 06:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,707
Hootbro Offline
Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,707
Originally Posted By: moving2

kschachn- and how do you know Toyota didn't use this design to lead more people into their dealerships for service / tools? This seems to be the more common sense answer vs. your hand-waving "magical engineering" assumption. Afterall, making the oil filter work with a standard oil filter wrench isn't rocket science.



Toyota and other car makers are going to cartridge style filters because it is "greener" in terms of wast and recycle costs.

Processing traditional metal can filters for recycling is a pain as most still retain quite a bit oil that has to be squeezed out and then the media separated from metal can for the metal to be recycled.


2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon 3.6L (Factory Fill 0W-20)
2017 Jeep Renegade Latitude 2.4L (Idemitsu 0W-20)

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: Hootbro] #3083537 08/02/13 07:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
J
JethroBodine Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 449
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: moving2

kschachn- and how do you know Toyota didn't use this design to lead more people into their dealerships for service / tools? This seems to be the more common sense answer vs. your hand-waving "magical engineering" assumption. Afterall, making the oil filter work with a standard oil filter wrench isn't rocket science.



Toyota and other car makers are going to cartridge style filters because it is "greener" in terms of wast and recycle costs.

Processing traditional metal can filters for recycling is a pain as most still retain quite a bit oil that has to be squeezed out and then the media separated from metal can for the metal to be recycled.



+1 Exactly....that apparently has eluded some "engineers".

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3083777 08/02/13 12:23 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
G
greenjp Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
The reduction in materials use with a cartridge filter is a legitimate improvement, however that in itself is no justification for Toyota's particular implementation, which is the subject of the discussion. See GM, BMW, Mercedes, et al for a canister filter implementation that achieves this benefit while avoiding the pitfalls of Toyota's.

jeff

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3083779 08/02/13 12:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 656
M
moving2 Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 656
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: moving2

kschachn- and how do you know Toyota didn't use this design to lead more people into their dealerships for service / tools? This seems to be the more common sense answer vs. your hand-waving "magical engineering" assumption. Afterall, making the oil filter work with a standard oil filter wrench isn't rocket science.



Toyota and other car makers are going to cartridge style filters because it is "greener" in terms of wast and recycle costs.

Processing traditional metal can filters for recycling is a pain as most still retain quite a bit oil that has to be squeezed out and then the media separated from metal can for the metal to be recycled.



+1 Exactly....that apparently has eluded some "engineers".


And, of course, both of your responses grasp at low hanging fruit while totally avoiding the main point: the design choice to require a special tool vs. more standard tools. It's no surprise that this point evades "non-engineers" who prefer to hand wave about a "technical sophistication" that they are unqualified, and apparently unable, to describe. Cheers2


'97 Lexus LX450 135K- PU 5w40
'94 Lexus LS400 111K- PU 5w40
'63 Dodge Travco 25K- Rotella T6 5w40
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: The Critic] #3085613 08/04/13 03:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 943
C
ChrisW Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 943
Originally Posted By: The Critic
This system is actually very clean. My 2011 Prius uses the same system.

With the proper cap, turn the cap SLOWLY until the cut-outs line-up with the correct part of the housing. Most of the oil will drain out. When you remove the filter, the mess should be minimal.



This. I learned about the line-up method by looking at the Toyota filter box. I find that about the same amount of oil spills out of the vertical canister filter on my Mazda6 as does on my lady's IS250 when doing changes. Oil changes are 'messy' regardless of filter design in my opinion. However, being that the cartridge housing is horizontal, I find it a tad less messy than my vertically mounted filter on my Mazda6; when loosening the filter on my mazda, the oil spills on the side of the can and gets all over the can. With the Lexus, if you loosen carefully enough it can drain without any oil spilling out onto the cap.


09 Mazda6 GT 3.7 89k PYB-SN 5W20 Wix 51516
10 Mazda3 GT 2.5 40k QSUD 0W20 Wix 51348
10 Mazda3 S 2.5 28k QSUD 0W20 Wix 51348
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: ChrisW] #3159612 10/18/13 06:53 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
G
greenjp Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
Round 2...

MIL racking up the miles requested another change for the RAV4 this week. Now equipped with the official Toyota filter housing cap and The_Eric's helpful tips it was considerably less frustrating than the first go-around.

A couple things I noticed this time:
- when initially removing the little metal plug from the cap, the entire housing loosened. I had to put the cap on, tighten it, then the metal plug loosened by itself. I suppose this could have been a result of not torquing each one correctly during the last job? Note, the housing cap has a sticker on it warning against the use of a torque wrench to tighten, and Toyota's manuals and maintenance booklet proved useless, providing no info.
- the cap has two pairs of three slots on opposite sides that appear like they should line up with a set of tabs on the filter housing, but the cap doesn't actually go onto the housing far enough for them to engage. Is that how it's supposed to be?
- Despite my relative hack-job the first go around, there weren't any leaks around the filter housing so that was nice. Despite draining it for 5+ minutes there was still quite a bit of oil within the housing, not so much a spill issue just oil all over the place so still sorta messy to replace the filter, put the new o-ring on, etc. I still fail to see the logic of this design vs. a top mounted cartridge or classic spin on type.

Thanks to those who provided helpful advice Cheers2


jeff

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3159633 10/18/13 07:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,509
T
The_Eric Online Content
Online Content
T
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,509
Good to hear that you're having a better go of it this time.

You're saying that the housing warns NOT to torque it on? Odd. All the housings I've seen have the correct torque molded into them. Should be 25nm or 18.3 lbs. Since my 3/8" torque wrench doesn't read n/m, I set for 18lbs and tighten.

I've also seen the tabs on the side. I know some filter wrenches drive from them and there's also a spring loaded tang on some oil filter mounts that will catch one of the tabs.

As for the metal cap, it's happened to me too. But only when I snug it a little too much. If a quick lube place did the last oil change, then it doesn't happen because the housing is so darned tight that the plug would never loosen it. The reality is that it really doesn't need to be very tight. Heck, it likely doesn't need to be there at all since there's a spring loaded valve in the housing.

Lastly I'm surprised that there was a significant amount of oil in the housing after draining. Usually I let it drain for a minute or so, then loosen the housing. There will be oil in it, but it's always been nominal- not enough to make a mess.

Anyway, good luck on future changes!


2005 Lincoln Aviator 4.6 DOHC
2000 Honda Accord 2.3
2001 Hyundai Elantra 2.0
1979 Ford F-150 351M
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3159740 10/18/13 09:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 443
gaijinnv Offline
Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 443
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Round 2...

MIL racking up the miles requested another change for the RAV4 this week. Now equipped with the official Toyota filter housing cap and The_Eric's helpful tips it was considerably less frustrating than the first go-around.

A couple things I noticed this time:
- when initially removing the little metal plug from the cap, the entire housing loosened. I had to put the cap on, tighten it, then the metal plug loosened by itself. I suppose this could have been a result of not torquing each one correctly during the last job? Note, the housing cap has a sticker on it warning against the use of a torque wrench to tighten, and Toyota's manuals and maintenance booklet proved useless, providing no info. The little metal plug should be tightened to 9 ft/lb and the housing should be tightened to 18 ft/lb. You should use a torque wrench to obtain the correct torques.
- the cap has two pairs of three slots on opposite sides that appear like they should line up with a set of tabs on the filter housing, but the cap doesn't actually go onto the housing far enough for them to engage. Is that how it's supposed to be? Yes, this is how it is supposed to be. Those pairs of slots will engage a metal spring clip as a safeguard against the housing coming loose. Often, the metal clip is ignored when loosening the housing and is deformed so it will no longer engage the housing. If this is the case, it is no big deal, but the clip should be bent back so it does properly engage.
- Despite my relative hack-job the first go around, there weren't any leaks around the filter housing so that was nice. Despite draining it for 5+ minutes there was still quite a bit of oil within the housing, not so much a spill issue just oil all over the place so still sorta messy to replace the filter, put the new o-ring on, etc. I still fail to see the logic of this design vs. a top mounted cartridge or classic spin on type. When draining the housing, after removing the little metal plug, the drain adapter which comes with the filter must be pushed all the way into the housing to properly drain. When pushed all the way in, a spring-loaded valve is opened allowing complete drainage of the housing. Sounds like you did not push the drain adapter all the way in.

Thanks to those who provided helpful advice Cheers2


jeff


I agree it is a more complicated setup than a simple spin-on filter, but all the vagaries and variabilities of ADBV construction and material, springs, filter support and flow design are eliminated. The engineer in me loves the Toyota design - the old man in me hates getting on my back and dealing with it.

thumbsup


USN NAVSECGRU 1970-1974
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3165343 10/23/13 06:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 250
M
My442 Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 250
I have a 2013 Tundra. Having been an oil changer for the last 45 years, I decided to research how to do it.

1. It has a large skid plate with 8 bolts - easy to remove.

2. The oil filter housing has an aluminum cap that covers the drain hole for the housing - also easy to remove.

3. The Toyota filter comes with a plastic drain tube that needs to be inserted into the housing. If you take a glass beer bottle and insert the plastic tube in it, you can push the tube into the housing, and catch all of the oil. No mess.

4. I bought the Assenmacher filter tool off of Amazon. Makes removing the housing easy.

So, I would rate the oil change somewhat more difficult than a spin on cartridge filter, but not horrible....except it takes 8.5 quarts of oil.

Last edited by My442; 10/23/13 06:07 PM.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: My442] #3165494 10/23/13 08:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,180
H
hattaresguy Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,180
Its a Toyota, they don't need oil changes...

The Germans perfected the filter setup, everyone else needs to figure it out and just copy them already. Nice cartridge right on the front, use the plastic bag trick and you don't even need gloves and don't lose 1 drop of oil!

Manufactures do it for cost. On my truck for example the filter is way up in a stupid place. It would have cost GM probably $10 to put a nice remote set up on but field maintenance is not a big concern for them since most people sub oil changes out.

Toyota's set up sounds needlessly complicated.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: hattaresguy] #3165667 10/23/13 10:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Its a Toyota, they don't need oil changes...

The Germans perfected the filter setup, everyone else needs to figure it out and just copy them already. Nice cartridge right on the front, use the plastic bag trick and you don't even need gloves and don't lose 1 drop of oil!

Manufactures do it for cost. On my truck for example the filter is way up in a stupid place. It would have cost GM probably $10 to put a nice remote set up on but field maintenance is not a big concern for them since most people sub oil changes out.

Toyota's set up sounds needlessly complicated.


Agreed. changing the oil on my BMW's is a BREEZE, and the least messy of any vehicle I've ever owned.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: OVERKILL] #3165709 10/23/13 11:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
H
HTSS_TR Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Its a Toyota, they don't need oil changes...

The Germans perfected the filter setup, everyone else needs to figure it out and just copy them already. Nice cartridge right on the front, use the plastic bag trick and you don't even need gloves and don't lose 1 drop of oil!

Manufactures do it for cost. On my truck for example the filter is way up in a stupid place. It would have cost GM probably $10 to put a nice remote set up on but field maintenance is not a big concern for them since most people sub oil changes out.

Toyota's set up sounds needlessly complicated.


Agreed. changing the oil on my BMW's is a BREEZE, and the least messy of any vehicle I've ever owned.

Do you use a fluid extractor ?

Of all my cars, the E430 is easiest to change oil and filter.


'00 MB E430
'04 Honda S2000
'06 Volvo V70
'14 Honda Accord LX
"Throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry" Pope Francis
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: HTSS_TR] #3165714 10/23/13 11:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Its a Toyota, they don't need oil changes...

The Germans perfected the filter setup, everyone else needs to figure it out and just copy them already. Nice cartridge right on the front, use the plastic bag trick and you don't even need gloves and don't lose 1 drop of oil!

Manufactures do it for cost. On my truck for example the filter is way up in a stupid place. It would have cost GM probably $10 to put a nice remote set up on but field maintenance is not a big concern for them since most people sub oil changes out.

Toyota's set up sounds needlessly complicated.


Agreed. changing the oil on my BMW's is a BREEZE, and the least messy of any vehicle I've ever owned.

Do you use a fluid extractor ?

Of all my cars, the E430 is easiest to change oil and filter.


Nope, just the drain plug under the trap door on the bottom of the underbody panel.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: OVERKILL] #3165966 10/24/13 09:11 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
G
greenjp Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
Forgot to reply when I posted last week...

Eric, it's not the filter housing that says not to use a torque wrench, but rather the housing cap wrench itself. There's a sticker on it. I have not noticed any text molded into the housing itself, I'll take a look for it next time.

Regardless, thanks both of you for the info on the correct torque specs for the drain plug and housing. I have an in-lbs torque wrench so shouldn't have a problem with it.

As for the little plastic drain gizmo, the one that came with the PureOne filter was threaded such that it is screwed in the same way as the drain plug. I turned it all the way in and let it drain for 5+ minutes. As I said the bulk of the oil was removed yet the inside of the housing was still quite an oily mess (as I'd expect given there's a soaked filter inside).

Quote:
hattaresguy:
Toyota's set up sounds needlessly complicated.

Though my second experience was much improved thanks to the "training" I've recieved, I still come back to this same opinion. There are better ways to implement this feature (removable oil filter). Sure maybe it's not so bad once you get the hang of it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be easier if there's a better way. The whole set up with the separate drain plug, special wrench, o-rings, etc seems rather Rube Goldberg-esque when you've done the same job on other cars.

jeff

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3166083 10/24/13 11:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 443
gaijinnv Offline
Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 443
Originally Posted By: greenjp


As for the little plastic drain gizmo, the one that came with the PureOne filter was threaded such that it is screwed in the same way as the drain plug. I turned it all the way in and let it drain for 5+ minutes. As I said the bulk of the oil was removed yet the inside of the housing was still quite an oily mess (as I'd expect given there's a soaked filter inside).

jeff


Toyota filters, both standard and TRD high performance, come with a push-in type "gizmo" which effectively drains the oil from the housing:



thumbsup


USN NAVSECGRU 1970-1974
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3166334 10/24/13 02:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,180
H
hattaresguy Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,180
The very fact that you have to get underneath the car and they have the cartridge mounted where the oil drains out if you don't use a special tool shows its a poorly thought out design. Some engineer got carried away and no one was around to reign him back in.



This is the proper way to mount a cartridge filter, as soon as you crack the seal oil drains down into the crankcase where it belongs. Its also in a very serviceable location. (notice all the fluids that require checks PS fluid, coolant, oil are located in the same square for fast and easy top off) That's about where I would mount a remote filter on my Chevy if I ever get ambitious enough.

Field serviceability is big for those who actually do the work. If you look at larger engines and equipment this becomes a big deal, especially on boats.

As a result of excellent field serviceability you can change the oil without getting under the car, and quite frankly in your best cloths if you so desired its that clean and fast.

Last edited by hattaresguy; 10/24/13 02:30 PM.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3166341 10/24/13 02:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
Very similar to BMW:



Fill cap is on the left valve cover in the above image. Cartridge is on the right side of the engine.

You can use an extractor down the dipstick tube if you desire and remain perfectly clean. I've been too cheap to buy an extractor so I use the drain plug.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: OVERKILL] #3166370 10/24/13 02:55 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
G
greenjp Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
Also note in that BMW photo that the filter housing has accomodations for both a special cap wrench (or at least it appears that way) as well as a standard socket, albeit a large one. I've used slip-joint channelocks on my Aunt's old 530.

jeff

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3166382 10/24/13 03:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,760
G
gman2304 Online Content
Online Content
G
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,760
The first oil change on my wifes 06 Toyota Avalon I used a strap wrench...worked like a charm. The problem is the King Kong types get carried away and then you will need the "$pecial wrench".

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3166400 10/24/13 03:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Also note in that BMW photo that the filter housing has accomodations for both a special cap wrench (or at least it appears that way) as well as a standard socket, albeit a large one. I've used slip-joint channelocks on my Aunt's old 530.

jeff


Yup, IIRC, it is 24mm. I just use a 1/2" ratchet with the necessary socket on it.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3166408 10/24/13 03:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,797
M
Mykl Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,797
If a proprietary, non standard tool is required for the relatively simple task of changing the oil, the manufacturer is doing it wrong.

I would argue the same for transmission fluid.


'10 Volkswagen GTI
'07 Toyota Camry XLE V-6
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: supton] #3166424 10/24/13 03:34 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,489
U
UG_Passat Offline
Offline
U
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,489
Originally Posted By: supton
Good question; no idea. On my VW the filter comes out sopping wet, and I wind up vacuuming out the housing. The oil cooler is right under the filter, and there's a good amount that can get pulled from there.


That's because you only experienced the new version of the cartridge filter, where it has an actual necessary orientation, as it had a solid "dam" area in the center support tube. This prevented from having all of the oil draining back into the sump.

THe older version of that filter did not have that dam, so there was no orientation needed.


2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: hattaresguy] #3166471 10/24/13 04:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,707
Hootbro Offline
Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,707
Some of you guys need your "man card" revoked whining about this. Acting like the very minimal extra care to remove skid plates and removing the cartridge filter is going to get your polo shirt and khaki pants dirty.

Jeez, put down your Pumpkin Spiced Latte and get both hands dirty and quit whining it is not like MB or BMW.


2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon 3.6L (Factory Fill 0W-20)
2017 Jeep Renegade Latitude 2.4L (Idemitsu 0W-20)

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: Hootbro] #3166476 10/24/13 04:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Some of you guys need your "man card" revoked whining about this. Acting like the very minimal extra care to remove skid plates and removing the cartridge filter is going to get your polo shirt and khaki pants dirty.

Jeez, put down your Pumpkin Spiced Latte and get both hands dirty and quit whining it is not like MB or BMW.


Says the guy with three Toyota's wink


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: OVERKILL] #3166485 10/24/13 04:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,707
Hootbro Offline
Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,707
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


Says the guy with three Toyota's wink


This guy with three Toyota's and three cartridge filter setups, does his own oil changes and does not whine about it.


2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon 3.6L (Factory Fill 0W-20)
2017 Jeep Renegade Latitude 2.4L (Idemitsu 0W-20)

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: Hootbro] #3166490 10/24/13 04:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,264
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


Says the guy with three Toyota's wink


This guy with three Toyota's and three cartridge filter setups, does his own oil changes and does not whine about it.


Well I'm the guy with 2x BMW's that take cartridges and 1x Ford 4x4 with a front diff in the way that takes an FL-820S and who ALSO does his own oil changes and doesn't whine about it wink But it doesn't mean I can't critique what other marques have done to make a change on their vehicles a bigger PITA than it needs to be wink


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: Hootbro] #3166492 10/24/13 04:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,612
S
SatinSilver Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,612
wink

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: Mykl] #3166515 10/24/13 05:16 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,956
Y
y_p_w Offline
Offline
Y
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,956
Originally Posted By: Mykl
If a proprietary, non standard tool is required for the relatively simple task of changing the oil, the manufacturer is doing it wrong.

I would argue the same for transmission fluid.

I have some doozies.

At least for my 2004 WRX, the manual transmission drain bolt had a T-70 Torx head. Hard time finding it back in 2004 and I ended up spending almost $30 on a fancy German made one. It's now pretty easy to find for less than $10. I remember contacting Lisle to ask if they would consider it, and they said they never heard of an application for a T-70. They have one now. It's used on some other stuff, including the front diff in some Subarus.

And when I worked on bicycles, I built my own wheel with a fancy Campagnolo front hub I bought on eBay. It was beautiful polished aluminum but I wanted to rebuild it. It had these unique dust caps and I ended up scratching them trying to remove them with a common tools. Turns out there was a specialty tool just for this particular part. The hub was only a design for a couple of years. I paid a shop $5 just to take it off without scratching it more.



This was the tool to remove the dust cap:


Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: Hootbro] #3166546 10/24/13 05:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,180
H
hattaresguy Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,180
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Some of you guys need your "man card" revoked whining about this. Acting like the very minimal extra care to remove skid plates and removing the cartridge filter is going to get your polo shirt and khaki pants dirty.

Jeez, put down your Pumpkin Spiced Latte and get both hands dirty and quit whining it is not like MB or BMW.


I appreciate good designs and point out poor ones regardless of who designs them.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: Hootbro] #3166554 10/24/13 05:50 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
G
greenjp Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,380
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Some of you guys need your "man card" revoked whining about this. Acting like the very minimal extra care to remove skid plates and removing the cartridge filter is going to get your polo shirt and khaki pants dirty.

Jeez, put down your Pumpkin Spiced Latte and get both hands dirty and quit whining it is not like MB or BMW.

Sure tough guy, come and get it LOL

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: hattaresguy] #3166759 10/24/13 08:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,133
A
antiqueshell Offline
Offline
A
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,133
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Some of you guys need your "man card" revoked whining about this. Acting like the very minimal extra care to remove skid plates and removing the cartridge filter is going to get your polo shirt and khaki pants dirty.

Jeez, put down your Pumpkin Spiced Latte and get both hands dirty and quit whining it is not like MB or BMW.


I appreciate good designs and point out poor ones regardless of who designs them.



Absolutely correct, this is the way it SHOULD BE.

Apologists need not apply.

I am a "fan" of VW products..... HOWEVER I am actually MORE critical of their design and engineering compared to other competing brands because HOPEFULLY consumer input does have an influence on the design of future products.

The companies will not respond to input if the consumer doesn't offer it up, and supplying it in a persistent manner as well is actually the best way to approach manufacturers. the squeaky wheel really does get the oil.

Last edited by antiqueshell; 10/24/13 08:22 PM.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: hattaresguy] #3166846 10/24/13 09:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
H
HTSS_TR Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Some of you guys need your "man card" revoked whining about this. Acting like the very minimal extra care to remove skid plates and removing the cartridge filter is going to get your polo shirt and khaki pants dirty.

Jeez, put down your Pumpkin Spiced Latte and get both hands dirty and quit whining it is not like MB or BMW.

The splash shield under the Volvo V70 is BIG, hold up by 7-8 bolts. Remove it isn't bad but reinstall is pain in the bud.


'00 MB E430
'04 Honda S2000
'06 Volvo V70
'14 Honda Accord LX
"Throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry" Pope Francis
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #4976444 01/11/19 07:54 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 887
A
anndel Offline
Offline
A
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 887
I've been doing changes on our 2005 Toyota Avalon since 2005 and that car came with the cartridge-type filter. I use a 3/8 in drive ratchet to remove the cap and the plastic nipple to drain the filter housing. Then I grab the biggest Channellock I have and remove the housing (by the numerous scratches on the aluminum housing). I just bought a Motivx tool a couple year ago along with the drain hose you screw into the housing to drain it. Yeah a bit more work than the can filters and messier but not a show stopper.

Last edited by anndel; 01/11/19 07:56 PM.

1993 Toyota 4x4 p/u, 2.4L 22RE 4 cyl - M1 EP 10W-30, Fram UG Filter
2005 Toyota Avalon XL, 3.5L V6, Amsoil XL 5W-30, Amsoil Filter
2014 Toyota Tacoma 4.0L V6, Amsoil SS 5W-30, Yota OEM Filter
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #4977047 01/12/19 02:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 453
P
pezzy669 Offline
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 453
Going to agree with OP that the design is overall not user friendly, however the Germans are not immune as my '06 Jetta 2.5 had a similar cartridge system accessed from underneath that caused spillage. The TDI's had a top mount cartridge that was no mess, same with most if not all BMW's and Mercedes.

My '03 Golf TDI, '09 MB C300 and now my '11 MB E350 all have top mount filters where when you unscrew the cap it opens the anti-drainback valve and drains the filter housing down to the pan as soon as you have the cap loose. My process was to just get the housing fully unscrewed and leave it sitting for a few minutes for the filter and housing to drip a little bit longer. Makes refilling the oil easier too as you had this massive filter housing to pour oil into that drains pretty rapidly into the pan, never used the oil fill neck except for topping off.


2012 Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen TDI - 66k
2011 Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen TDI - 46k
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #4977067 01/12/19 02:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,674
E
edyvw Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,674
Same thing on 2GR-FE V6 in my Sienna. Poor average driver of Toyota still thinks they are lucky, as it must be more difficult and expensive on Euro cars.
On Tiguan it is a breeze and more importantly, no mess.
But that on a side. Which idiot put that filter housing so close to the ground is beyond my understanding.


15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #5030240 03/03/19 02:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,398
B
beanoil Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,398
Spin On Conversion for Toyota

Lovely spouse wants a new van, the Sienna with Access Seat fills the bill perfectly.
Still that same goofy filter cap and cartridge in the 2019, so the BITOG in me went looking.
I may have to convert that thing when we get it, and if it's as difficult as indicated.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #5030411 03/03/19 05:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,809
J
JeffKeryk Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,809
As long as you don't over tighten it (18 pound feet I believe) and use use a good tool, they ain't that bad.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JeffKeryk] #5030436 03/03/19 05:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,526
H
HangFire Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,526
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
As long as you don't over tighten it (18 pound feet I believe) and use use a good tool, they ain't that bad.

Yeah I'm not in love with it on my Corolla, but I'll put up with it in exchange for the spotless reliability over 188K miles.


Various musings: http://hangfire.net
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #5030530 03/03/19 06:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,456
G
Gokhan Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,456
Originally Posted by greenjp
My mother in law comments this morning that she needs to take her 2010 Rav4 4 cylinder in for an oil change, I say don't bother I'll take care of it. (I've done a hundred or so over the years on my Saab, Saturn, couple Hondas, other random cars). Grab 5 qts of Castrol syn-blend and a PureOne filter from Advance for $23 on special. Note that the filter is a cartridge type, no biggie or so I thought.

So I get the car up and find that the filter cartridge is accessed from the underside (doesn't this defeat the apparent purpose?) and has a separate drain plug built into the cap. So I remove that, a little oil drains out. I then realize that there is no obvious way to remove the complete cap to replace the filter. Hop on the internet and determine it requires a special tool.

After a couple fruitless stops at auto parts stores I find myself at the nearest Toyota dealer, buying a friggen $30 wrench attachment, my rear end was quite sore on the drive home. Get home and finish the change without a problem, except that when you do get the filter housing cap off, another load of oil dumps out all over the place, a complete mess.

Now, I have no problem with specialized tools for special jobs (I have a $25 wiper arm puller that I've used exactly 1 time, it was worth every penny) but this is absurd. I'm a mechanical engineer with two master's degrees and I cannot think of a single valid reason for this setup aside from creating a difficulty for the DIY mechanic, thus driving business to dealer service and parts departments.

Immediately prior to working on the Rav4 I did my umpteenth oil change on my 2003 Saab 9-5. Standard screw on filter located on the bottom of the engine, just forward of the sump. Comes off with ease, drains cleanly right into the oil pan. That's the way it should be done.

So to whatever fool(s) at Toyota thought up this thing, go to [censored] shoot

ha ha.

jeff

Well, if you want to call a cap-style oil-filter wrench a special service tool... It's the same one as for the Toyota spin-on oil filters. I have a half-a-dozen varieties of them. You can get cheaper ones at car-parts stores but not all work well. I had no problem changing the oil on my 2009 Corolla with the old cap wrench I had for spin-on filters but it felt like my shoulder blade would separate to get to the oil-filter cap because it was a long reach without raising the car.

I do like the spin-on filters because you can go with different varieties and oversized ones. Also, you don't have to worry about your housing cap breaking one day in the middle of an oil change.


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 276,000 M
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 SN PLUS (PAO-and-AN-based)
Fram Ultra XG3600 filter (full synthetic), 90430-12031 drain gasket (rubber on aluminum)
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #5030533 03/03/19 06:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 285
R
Railrust Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 285
I absolutely hate these things. I owned a Lexus LS460 for five years and I dreaded changing the oil on that thing...it was a mess, things could get aggravating and it just bugs me that all they had to do was put a simple spin on filter on the thing and it's a two minute job. But no, had to turn something so simple into a sloppy agrivating mess.

My new car no longer has this setup and oil changes are somewhat enjoyable again. I may install a fumoto valve and really spoil myself.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #5030855 03/04/19 12:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,304
C
CR94 Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,304
Aside from being in an inconvenient location (unless you have the car up high on a lift) the cartridge on 1.8L Toyotas (Corolla, Prius, et al.) seems easy enough to me. It does not have the extra drain complication of the larger version on Camrys and such. It's designed to drain the filter housing when the cap is partially removed, much as a horizontally oriented spin-on does.

The only grounds I see for a rant are that I must raise the car at least slightly to crawl underneath, then deal with the stupid, balky plastic push pins to gain access to the filter and drain plug.


2011 Toyota Prius now at 102K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #5031035 03/04/19 09:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 484
K
klt1986 Offline
Offline
K
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 484
I have been using the Motivx wrench on my Tundra and find it works really well. I kind of like being able to drain the cartridge housing before removal and find the oil change is less messy albeit, more time consuming.


Motivx


I like the looks of the Baxter filter adapter/relocator but they are really proud of it! If using the screw in adapter I wonder what spin on filter you would then use on a Toyota 5.7L?

Page 1 of 7 1 2 7
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™