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Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3079618 07/29/13 08:39 AM
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KrisZ Offline
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Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Originally Posted By: supton
Oh come now. What's the point of using a filter element that can only be gotten to under the vehicle?



You mean like 90% of the vehicles out there? Like I said. I get a kick out of people who should never be working on cars and then think it is "unfair" when they have to get the proper tools for the job. However, most all trades require specialized tools. Plus, checking the ATF level on a Toyota trans is simple...if you have the correct tools and know what you are doing.


Tools do not a good mechanic make. How do you know you should be working on cars?
You may watch that high horse of yours, as it may one day kick you down wink


2015 Grand Caravan 3.6L - 31k miles.
2006 Mazda 3 2.0L - 171k miles
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3079654 07/29/13 09:20 AM
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hatt Offline
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Quote:
I'm a mechanical engineer with two master's degrees

Scenes from the Big Bang Theory keeps appearing in my head. Anyway, OP is a drama queen. It's not that hard. And I have zero master's degrees.

And for having the filter on the top of the engine. Doesn't that make for dry starts? My powerstroke 6.0 filter housing was always dry when I changed it. Clearly oil didn't stay up there when the engine was not running. How do these other designs deal with it?


2013 F150 5.0, Delo XLE CK-4 10W-30, Baldwin B7449
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 10W-30, Mobil1 M1C-251A
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3079659 07/29/13 09:25 AM
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supton Offline
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Good question; no idea. On my VW the filter comes out sopping wet, and I wind up vacuuming out the housing. The oil cooler is right under the filter, and there's a good amount that can get pulled from there.

If I didn't have an idiot light for oil pressure then I'd know how long it took to come up to pressure... crazy

One good side to the top mount is that I can pour a huge amount of oil over the filter, akin to filling a spin on filter. But in this case it's pouring oil into the cooler too.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 187k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 153k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 209k, his
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: supton] #3079846 07/29/13 12:33 PM
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JethroBodine Offline
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Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Originally Posted By: supton
Oh come now. What's the point of using a filter element that can only be gotten to under the vehicle?



You mean like 90% of the vehicles out there? Like I said. I get a kick out of people who should never be working on cars and then think it is "unfair" when they have to get the proper tools for the job. However, most all trades require specialized tools. Plus, checking the ATF level on a Toyota trans is simple...if you have the correct tools and know what you are doing.


What can I say? The last 9 years I've been doing top-side oil changes on my VW. Once I started doing that, I've dreaded going back to having to crawl in the dirt.

Is checking the level that simple? Been a week or two since I read the proceedure. Off the top of my head:

-jumper two pins on the OBDII port together *OR* get a scan tool to monitor ATF temp.
-when the ATF is at 115F or thereabouts, and as long as the temperature is within a 7 degree F window (otherwise, let engine idle or cool until w/in this window):
-crawl under vehicle, remove check level bolt
-if the oil drips out, it is too low
-if it streams out, it is too high
-if the flow coming out is just right, then all is good.
-if you need to add oil, go find a hand pump to add via the fill hole, or find a tube to snake up into the engine bay, and of course watch out for hot exhaust.

I understand why Toyota did away with the dipstick, but that doesn't mean I agree with their decision to do so. Would any of us agree to no longer have an engine oil dipstick?


You never "check" the fluid level on a Toyota sealed trans anymore. You set the level. Do this next time. Level the car when engine is cold. Open fill bolt and add 1/2 quart of ATF. Start car and allow to begin to warm up. IF you have a scan tool that will read the trans temp sensors (doubtful) then use that for ATF temperature to get to 114F. If not use an IR thermometer and scan the trans oil pan until you get a reading of 110F. With the engine idling now pull the drain bolt and allow ATF to drain until it becomes a trickle. Screw drain plug back in and tighten. You have just set the ATF to the correct level. If you are more than 1/2 quart low you may have an issue.

Last edited by JethroBodine; 07/29/13 12:36 PM.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: KrisZ] #3079853 07/29/13 12:39 PM
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JethroBodine Offline
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Originally Posted By: supton
Oh come now. What's the point of using a filter element that can only be gotten to under the vehicle?



You mean like 90% of the vehicles out there? Like I said. I get a kick out of people who should never be working on cars and then think it is "unfair" when they have to get the proper tools for the job. However, most all trades require specialized tools. Plus, checking the ATF level on a Toyota trans is simple...if you have the correct tools and know what you are doing.


Tools do not a good mechanic make. How do you know you should be working on cars?
You may watch that high horse of yours, as it may one day kick you down wink


The proper tools are required to do the job correctly. You are simply incorrect. Today's automobiles are much more technically sophisticated that cars used to be. So you should not call out anyone who is simply advocating doing a job correctly because you disagree. BTW, I do not own a horse. Also, you don't own a Toyota so please troll elsewhere.

Last edited by JethroBodine; 07/29/13 12:42 PM.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: hatt] #3079859 07/29/13 12:48 PM
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JethroBodine Offline
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Originally Posted By: hatt
Quote:
I'm a mechanical engineer with two master's degrees

Scenes from the Big Bang Theory keeps appearing in my head. Anyway, OP is a drama queen. It's not that hard. And I have zero master's degrees.

And for having the filter on the top of the engine. Doesn't that make for dry starts? My powerstroke 6.0 filter housing was always dry when I changed it. Clearly oil didn't stay up there when the engine was not running. How do these other designs deal with it?


The 4Runner 4.0L V6 has a top mounted filter. Easy to change. You need a filter with a good ADBV. But if the OP truly has a MS degree then shame on him for not researching further what tools he would need. One look at the filter canister did it for me.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3079874 07/29/13 01:13 PM
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supton Offline
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Originally Posted By: JethroBodine

You never "check" the fluid level on a Toyota sealed trans anymore. You set the level. Do this next time. Level the car when engine is cold. Open fill bolt and add 1/2 quart of ATF. Start car and allow to begin to warm up. IF you have a scan tool that will read the trans temp sensors (doubtful) then use that for ATF temperature to get to 114F. If not use an IR thermometer and scan the trans oil pan until you get a reading of 110F. With the engine idling now pull the drain bolt and allow ATF to drain until it becomes a trickle. Screw drain plug back in and tighten. You have just set the ATF to the correct level. If you are more than 1/2 quart low you may have an issue.


You're overlooking that you can short pins 4&13 on the OBD connector; once done the AT TEMP light will come on when the transmission is up to temp, and flash if the oil is too hot. Thankfully, I have a Scanguage which can read ATF temp also (have to add via an X guage); Ultragauge will read it too if you have a later version (early ones didn't, and you can't add it). Or if I could locate the old WinXP laptop we have (someplace) I could use a knockoff cable from eBay with some older version of Techstream (haven't tried yet). [The last one would be nice, mostly so I could "fix" the annoying seatbelt chime.]

Now that I'm looking at my notes it's a larger temp range, apparently 115F to 133F (46C to 56C), not as tight as I recalled. I do like the idea of adding extra ATF, then letting it drain down--not a bad idea.

Why check level? Only because I'm not quite sold on this being a "lifetime" fluid, much like others aren't. I'm sure it's wonderful stuff, but good for > 100kmiles? I'm pretty sure people here have done UOA's and WS isn't that magical. Even if you are only doing a pan drain you still have to check level afterwards.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 187k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 153k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 209k, his
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3079947 07/29/13 02:30 PM
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hatt Offline
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Originally Posted By: JethroBodine


The 4Runner 4.0L V6 has a top mounted filter. Easy to change. You need a filter with a good ADBV. But if the OP truly has a MS degree then shame on him for not researching further what tools he would need. One look at the filter canister did it for me.
I'm talking about top mounted cartridge filters.


2013 F150 5.0, Delo XLE CK-4 10W-30, Baldwin B7449
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 10W-30, Mobil1 M1C-251A
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: JethroBodine] #3080036 07/29/13 03:37 PM
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threeputtpar Offline
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Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Here is the "mystery tool"

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015PK3AG


LOL


And I remember seeing someone post that you can order it at AAP. The part number is ASSTOY640. Insert dirty joke here. laugh


2013 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite - Havoline 5W-30 Syn / Mobil1 Filter 80k miles
2014 GMC Acadia Denali - SuperTech 5W-30 Syn / Carquest Red 22k miles (yes, that low)
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: threeputtpar] #3080046 07/29/13 03:45 PM
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hatt Offline
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Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Here is the "mystery tool"

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015PK3AG


LOL


And I remember seeing someone post that you can order it at AAP. The part number is ASSTOY640. Insert dirty joke here. laugh

Yep. Be sure to order in person and spell it out slow.


2013 F150 5.0, Delo XLE CK-4 10W-30, Baldwin B7449
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 10W-30, Mobil1 M1C-251A
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: supton] #3080128 07/29/13 05:27 PM
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JethroBodine Offline
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Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine

You never "check" the fluid level on a Toyota sealed trans anymore. You set the level. Do this next time. Level the car when engine is cold. Open fill bolt and add 1/2 quart of ATF. Start car and allow to begin to warm up. IF you have a scan tool that will read the trans temp sensors (doubtful) then use that for ATF temperature to get to 114F. If not use an IR thermometer and scan the trans oil pan until you get a reading of 110F. With the engine idling now pull the drain bolt and allow ATF to drain until it becomes a trickle. Screw drain plug back in and tighten. You have just set the ATF to the correct level. If you are more than 1/2 quart low you may have an issue.


You're overlooking that you can short pins 4&13 on the OBD connector; once done the AT TEMP light will come on when the transmission is up to temp, and flash if the oil is too hot. Thankfully, I have a Scanguage which can read ATF temp also (have to add via an X guage); Ultragauge will read it too if you have a later version (early ones didn't, and you can't add it). Or if I could locate the old WinXP laptop we have (someplace) I could use a knockoff cable from eBay with some older version of Techstream (haven't tried yet). [The last one would be nice, mostly so I could "fix" the annoying seatbelt chime.]

Now that I'm looking at my notes it's a larger temp range, apparently 115F to 133F (46C to 56C), not as tight as I recalled. I do like the idea of adding extra ATF, then letting it drain down--not a bad idea.

Why check level? Only because I'm not quite sold on this being a "lifetime" fluid, much like others aren't. I'm sure it's wonderful stuff, but good for > 100kmiles? I'm pretty sure people here have done UOA's and WS isn't that magical. Even if you are only doing a pan drain you still have to check level afterwards.


I know about the pin connectors but use a IR thermometer because I usually have to do the job alone. It's a PIA to get up from under the car and watch the light.

But you can shut off the seat belt chime. You program it off with the odometer display. Go on Toyota Nation and look it up. I have shut it off on my last 3 vehicles. BTW WS is not a lifetime fluid. I won't go past 70k.

Last edited by JethroBodine; 07/29/13 05:29 PM.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: hatt] #3080133 07/29/13 05:31 PM
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JethroBodine Offline
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Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
Here is the "mystery tool"

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015PK3AG


LOL


And I remember seeing someone post that you can order it at AAP. The part number is ASSTOY640. Insert dirty joke here. laugh

Yep. Be sure to order in person and spell it out slow.


LOL...... crackmeup

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3080271 07/29/13 08:24 PM
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sciphi Offline
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One of the many things Chevy (well, Opel, Holden, and GM Korea) got right was putting a cartridge filter onto the Cruze. 24mm socket to get the cap off. Then replace the gasket, snap in the new filter, line it up, and snug it down until it is just barely tight.

Toyota needing a special adapter is silly.


2013 Toyota RAV4 XLE
2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: sciphi] #3080281 07/29/13 08:36 PM
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JethroBodine Offline
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Originally Posted By: sciphi
One of the many things Chevy (well, Opel, Holden, and GM Korea) got right was putting a cartridge filter onto the Cruze. 24mm socket to get the cap off. Then replace the gasket, snap in the new filter, line it up, and snug it down until it is just barely tight.

Toyota needing a special adapter is silly.


You don't have to have one. But the assenmacher one is cast aluminum and makes it really simple. It is an aftermarket tool. It pretty much eliminates the chance of ruining any of the filter cartridges.

Last edited by JethroBodine; 07/29/13 08:37 PM.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3080333 07/29/13 09:24 PM
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Hootbro Offline
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Total non issue if you had done your research and prep ahead of time.

All three of my Toyotas are cartridge filters and I do not find them to be a pain at all. Sure it is a few more steps and prep work but it is not like trying to split the atom in terms of difficulty.


2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon 3.6L (Factory Fill 0W-20)
2017 Jeep Renegade Latitude 2.4L (Idemitsu 0W-20)

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