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Toyota oil filter housing rant #3078265
07/27/13 07:05 PM
07/27/13 07:05 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,330
Germantown, MD
greenjp Offline OP
greenjp  Offline OP
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,330
Germantown, MD
My mother in law comments this morning that she needs to take her 2010 Rav4 4 cylinder in for an oil change, I say don't bother I'll take care of it. (I've done a hundred or so over the years on my Saab, Saturn, couple Hondas, other random cars). Grab 5 qts of Castrol syn-blend and a PureOne filter from Advance for $23 on special. Note that the filter is a cartridge type, no biggie or so I thought.

So I get the car up and find that the filter cartridge is accessed from the underside (doesn't this defeat the apparent purpose?) and has a separate drain plug built into the cap. So I remove that, a little oil drains out. I then realize that there is no obvious way to remove the complete cap to replace the filter. Hop on the internet and determine it requires a special tool.

After a couple fruitless stops at auto parts stores I find myself at the nearest Toyota dealer, buying a friggen $30 wrench attachment, my rear end was quite sore on the drive home. Get home and finish the change without a problem, except that when you do get the filter housing cap off, another load of oil dumps out all over the place, a complete mess.

Now, I have no problem with specialized tools for special jobs (I have a $25 wiper arm puller that I've used exactly 1 time, it was worth every penny) but this is absurd. I'm a mechanical engineer with two master's degrees and I cannot think of a single valid reason for this setup aside from creating a difficulty for the DIY mechanic, thus driving business to dealer service and parts departments.

Immediately prior to working on the Rav4 I did my umpteenth oil change on my 2003 Saab 9-5. Standard screw on filter located on the bottom of the engine, just forward of the sump. Comes off with ease, drains cleanly right into the oil pan. That's the way it should be done.

So to whatever fool(s) at Toyota thought up this thing, go to [censored] shoot

ha ha.

jeff

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078274
07/27/13 07:19 PM
07/27/13 07:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,954
WNY
redhat Offline
redhat  Offline
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,954
WNY
I agree. The same thing happened to yours truly when hopping underneath a friend's Prius for the first time.

I don't see why a 1" nut wouldn't also suffice? ???


17 Taurus Limited AWD - Dealer Fill of MCSB 5W-20 FL500S, 16k
14 Civic EX Coupe - NAPA Syn 0W-20 TG7317, 64k
09 Accord Sedan 5MT - Traveler 15W-40 XG7317, 151k
87 Regal Limited - 20W-50 VR1 WIX 51042
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078281
07/27/13 07:27 PM
07/27/13 07:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,119
Orlando, FL
Mr Nice Offline
Mr Nice  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,119
Orlando, FL
You have 2 Masters degrees.
Were you skipping class the day your professor was teaching common sense ?

Just kidding. LOL. smile

I would have not touched her car and let her take it in for an oil change.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078286
07/27/13 07:29 PM
07/27/13 07:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,061
usa
tommygunn Offline
tommygunn  Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,061
usa
I don't know if this will work on your Rav4, but supposedly the new Camry's cartridge oil filter and housing is the same thread and gasket size as the old spin-on filter they used previously.

Therefore, you could convert to the spin-on filter easily.

But of course I don't know if you can do this with a Rav4, but at least 50% possibility you can.


i am a [censored] who hides behind bugmenot.
i also like applying negative pressure to a certain male appendage.
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078294
07/27/13 07:40 PM
07/27/13 07:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,090
Ontario, Canada
GSCJR Offline
GSCJR  Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,090
Ontario, Canada
Don't feel bad. Although I did not make a mess changing the filter, a couple of days after I did the OC I noticed oil spots on my driveway. Crawled under and noticed the filter housing is wet, so, I touched up the filter plug a little and wiped it down. A couple days after that episode, I notice the oil spot on the driveway getting bigger. This time I crawl under and the filter housing is wet again. I snug up the filter housing further and wipe it down. Later that week I was in a parking lot and noticed a massive puddle of oil directly below the oil filter housing, I crawl under the vehicle and the housing is dry and there is fresh oil on the ground. I run my fingers in it and smell it, it's not oil, it's clean ATF!, I think to myself, now what? I crawl completely under the hot vehicle and underneath is completely dry now. I suspect that the previous vehicle must have had some ATF poured into it and some spilled over in the parking lot. What are the chances of the ATF spill being right under the oil filter housing? Talk about an instant heart attack!


03 3.0L 1MZ-FE QSGB 5w-30 ProSelect 21348 256KM
10 3.5L 2GR-FE CEB 0w-20 Defense DL9972 156KM
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: tommygunn] #3078299
07/27/13 07:43 PM
07/27/13 07:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 114
Los Angeles, CA
ukmastermind Offline
ukmastermind  Offline
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 114
Los Angeles, CA
I changed the oil on a '12 Camry 4cyl and the oil filter housing uses the same size, i think (I have a stack of oil filter caps for many makes), as my nissan filter. Aside from that, the plastic drian plug they provide and a 3/8 extension makes the job pretty easy and less messy. Also, the housing is metal. grin

P.S. I know the designs have changed atleast 3 x since 2009? it probably took many designs to finally get it right by 2012.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078301
07/27/13 07:47 PM
07/27/13 07:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,045
Central NY
Miller88 Offline
Miller88  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,045
Central NY
The reason for these is so they can get more people into the Toyota dealer for oil changes, so people will sit in the show room while their vehicle is being serviced and will buy a new Toyota after 3 years.

All of the manufacturers do it.


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep XJ
01 F-350 4x4 5M
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078334
07/27/13 08:31 PM
07/27/13 08:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 181
Northern York Region, Ontario,...
pennzoil_guru Offline
pennzoil_guru  Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 181
Northern York Region, Ontario,...
You can get it off with a standard 65 mm cap wrench IF the last person who did the oil change torqued the housing to the correct 20 ft/lbs. most lube shops and dealers tighten it so much, the standard cap wrench just slips off. I bought a tool off EBay for $19 that grips the raised areas on the housing. I use a torque wrench to tighten it to the 20 ft/lbs. it's easy to remove after that. Toyota claims less waste with this setup vs the old spin on filter. It is a huge PITA to remove it the first time without the tool


2011Toyota Matriix
2016 Nissan Rogue


Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078348
07/27/13 08:48 PM
07/27/13 08:48 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,614
southeast US
friendly_jacek Offline
friendly_jacek  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,614
southeast US
You would have thought a true BITOGer would like that setup as there is no oil filter cutting to see the media.

The only thing is, it should be at the top of the engine (like VW diesels).

Toyota simply converted a traditional oil filter design to cartridge without moving it.

Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078396
07/27/13 09:29 PM
07/27/13 09:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,391
Iowa
The_Eric Offline
The_Eric  Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,391
Iowa
Oh, they're not that complicated.

On those, you remove the small cap on the underside of the cartridge housing. Then you take the plastic spigot adapter (provided with the filter, or at least Wix and Napa Gold) and stick it in the housing to drain it of it's oil. It does take a bit of force (swift application is best) to unseat the seal and snap the adapter in place. It's nice to have a section of hose slipped over the adapter nipple to direct the oil. After that, simply unscrew the housing and change the filter and o-ring.

Now I've used the aftermarket 67mm X 14 flute cap wrenches and they're no good. It's lucky that you ended up at the dealer as the genuine Toyota tool is much nicer.

Torque is 25nm or 18.3 ft/lbs. The poster who said the typical grease monkey will crank them down is right. Those guys do it out of ignorance and fear. Neither is the correct reason.


2005 Lincoln Aviator 4.6 DOHC
2000 Honda Accord 2.3
2001 Hyundai Elantra 2.0
1979 Ford F-150 351M
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078402
07/27/13 09:31 PM
07/27/13 09:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,066
5600 feet elevation, Arizona
double vanos Offline
double vanos  Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,066
5600 feet elevation, Arizona
Exact same thing as my '08 Mazdaspeed 3. For the life of me, I can't imagine why they put that smaller drain screw in the cap - hardly any thing comes out! Then you take off the main cap and look out Nelly here comes 2 cups of oil!

Crazy.

On my new Speed 3 Mazda switched back to the old screw on type filter, thank heavens!


Sabine Schmitz is the Queen of the 'Ring; Svetlana Kapanina is the Queen of the SKIES...
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: double vanos] #3078410
07/27/13 09:38 PM
07/27/13 09:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,391
Iowa
The_Eric Offline
The_Eric  Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,391
Iowa
Originally Posted By: double vanos
Exact same thing as my '08 Mazdaspeed 3. For the life of me, I can't imagine why they put that smaller drain screw in the cap - hardly any thing comes out! Then you take off the main cap and look out Nelly here comes 2 cups of oil!

Crazy.

On my new Speed 3 Mazda switched back to the old screw on type filter, thank heavens!



It's because there is a spring loaded valve on the other side of that cap. You have to unseat it to drain it.


2005 Lincoln Aviator 4.6 DOHC
2000 Honda Accord 2.3
2001 Hyundai Elantra 2.0
1979 Ford F-150 351M
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078417
07/27/13 09:42 PM
07/27/13 09:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,391
Iowa
The_Eric Offline
The_Eric  Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,391
Iowa
The drain adapter I'm talking about looks like THIS for the Toyota engine.


2005 Lincoln Aviator 4.6 DOHC
2000 Honda Accord 2.3
2001 Hyundai Elantra 2.0
1979 Ford F-150 351M
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078418
07/27/13 09:42 PM
07/27/13 09:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,347
CA
The Critic Offline
The Critic  Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,347
CA
This system is actually very clean. My 2011 Prius uses the same system.

With the proper cap, turn the cap SLOWLY until the cut-outs line-up with the correct part of the housing. Most of the oil will drain out. When you remove the filter, the mess should be minimal.


2011 Toyota Prius - 181k - M1 EP/EP HM Mix 0W-20
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 134K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: Toyota oil filter housing rant [Re: greenjp] #3078442
07/27/13 10:14 PM
07/27/13 10:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,467
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,467
New Jersey
Stupid, stupid design... Sounds very similar to my wife's vw which is set up the same way. Only difference is that it uses a standard filter socket thing available anywhere.

I love cartridges, but when they are up top like on my Mercedes, BMW and saab cars. Couldn't be a cleaner or more perfect way to change the filter.

The wife's I tears was the worst thou. That filter would spill all over everything and always make a mess. Charm of an engine, fortunately it was easy on oil at 7500 OCIs. Technically the filter was only to be done every other time.

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