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Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? #3066666
07/15/13 11:25 PM
07/15/13 11:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,133
chicago, Illinois
antiqueshell Offline OP
antiqueshell  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,133
chicago, Illinois
Used to be called Valvoline Professional Series MTF .

New name is Valvoline Synchromesh MTF.

This stuff looks promising for folks that have a manual transmission vehicle that REQUIRES a GL-4 yellow metal safe gear box oil.

I found a MSDS for it here:
Valvoline Synchromesh MTF


It appears that it contains NO sulfides at all! But instead uses a polymer in its place. Interesting.

I haven't been able to find other specs on it though.

Anyone from Valvoline have the specific specs concerning viscosity and API weight?

Last edited by antiqueshell; 07/15/13 11:26 PM.
Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: antiqueshell] #3066668
07/15/13 11:30 PM
07/15/13 11:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,642
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,642
Dallas,Tx USA
Is it ATF thin like Pennz Synchromesh?


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W20

Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: aquariuscsm] #3066693
07/16/13 12:29 AM
07/16/13 12:29 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,417
Canada
expat Offline
expat  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,417
Canada
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Is it ATF thin like Pennz Synchromesh?


I would imagine it's the same as Pennzoil Syncromesh

Which incidentally has worked extremely well for me for many years in my Toyota Truck and my Triumph Spitfire with a Laycock de normanville overdrive.

Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: antiqueshell] #3066751
07/16/13 05:43 AM
07/16/13 05:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 680
Hawaii
gregoron Offline
gregoron  Offline
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 680
Hawaii
I would I think it meets GM Synchromesh specs and very similar to Pennzoil's. I can't be sure if there are no sulfur in it nor is the sulfur level safe for yellow metal if there are no VOA or PDS showing sulfur level.


2014 Toyota Corolla L 6MT 134k mi 0W20, 2018-Current
1995 MB E320 238k mi 15W40 Delo, 2016-2018
2014 VW Jetta GLI 6MT 36k mi 0W40, 2015-2017
2000 VW Jetta 2.0 5MT 97k mi 0W40, 2011-2015
Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: antiqueshell] #3066755
07/16/13 05:57 AM
07/16/13 05:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 680
Hawaii
gregoron Offline
gregoron  Offline
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 680
Hawaii
Antiqueshell, have you heard of Supertech 75W-90 gear oil? It's GL-5, but this post shows a Subaru owner using it in a Subie that requires GL-5 but has yellow metal in the transmission.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1672878&page=2

Check out the description on the bottle (pic on p. 2). It MIGHT be one of those GL-5 synthetics that's safe on yellow metal.

Last edited by gregoron; 07/16/13 05:59 AM.

2014 Toyota Corolla L 6MT 134k mi 0W20, 2018-Current
1995 MB E320 238k mi 15W40 Delo, 2016-2018
2014 VW Jetta GLI 6MT 36k mi 0W40, 2015-2017
2000 VW Jetta 2.0 5MT 97k mi 0W40, 2011-2015
Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: antiqueshell] #3066957
07/16/13 11:17 AM
07/16/13 11:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,241
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,241
Iowegia - USA
Quote:
It appears that it contains NO sulfides at all! But instead uses a polymer in its place


And you arrived at that conclusion how?

The polymer replaces what, the sulfur? And for what reason?


Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: MolaKule] #3067046
07/16/13 01:25 PM
07/16/13 01:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,133
chicago, Illinois
antiqueshell Offline OP
antiqueshell  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,133
chicago, Illinois
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
It appears that it contains NO sulfides at all! But instead uses a polymer in its place


And you arrived at that conclusion how?

The polymer replaces what, the sulfur? And for what reason?


Valvoline High Performance Gear Oil 75w-90 / 80w-90 GL-4 , GL-5

Here is a data sheet that gives more clues. Read what it states for GL-4 applications ...which has the asterisk and the bottom statement about using Professional series MTF (Synchromesh)

Last edited by antiqueshell; 07/16/13 01:27 PM.
Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: antiqueshell] #3067084
07/16/13 02:08 PM
07/16/13 02:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 680
Hawaii
gregoron Offline
gregoron  Offline
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 680
Hawaii
It appears that this and MT-1 gear oil were not specified for manual transmissions with synchros. I wouldn't use it for GL-4 application.


2014 Toyota Corolla L 6MT 134k mi 0W20, 2018-Current
1995 MB E320 238k mi 15W40 Delo, 2016-2018
2014 VW Jetta GLI 6MT 36k mi 0W40, 2015-2017
2000 VW Jetta 2.0 5MT 97k mi 0W40, 2011-2015
Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: antiqueshell] #3067090
07/16/13 02:12 PM
07/16/13 02:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,241
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,241
Iowegia - USA
This is what it says:

Quote:
*In synchronized manual transmission applications use:
• Valvoline Professional Series Manual Transmission Fluid or
• Valvoline Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid (available September 2012)


My interpretation is they are saying to use an Application Specific MTL instead of these gear lubes for use in a Manual Transmission, which is what I have been saying since 2002.

An MSDS tells you nothing about the total formulation. They have to declare certain components above certain levels for toxicity purposes, but doesn't include the whole recipe (formulation).

The "VALVOLINE PROFESSIONAL SERIES™ MANUAL TRANSMISSION OIL 508216" appears to be very similar to Pennzoil Synchromesh and the GM and Chrysler spec Synchromeshes, so I would expect it be to a 10 cSt-ish (approx. an API 30 weight) MTL.

Last edited by MolaKule; 07/16/13 02:25 PM.

Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: antiqueshell] #3067115
07/16/13 02:29 PM
07/16/13 02:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 680
Hawaii
gregoron Offline
gregoron  Offline
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 680
Hawaii
Thanks Molakule.


2014 Toyota Corolla L 6MT 134k mi 0W20, 2018-Current
1995 MB E320 238k mi 15W40 Delo, 2016-2018
2014 VW Jetta GLI 6MT 36k mi 0W40, 2015-2017
2000 VW Jetta 2.0 5MT 97k mi 0W40, 2011-2015
Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: aquariuscsm] #3067117
07/16/13 02:31 PM
07/16/13 02:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,241
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,241
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Is it ATF thin like Pennz Synchromesh?


Pennzoil Synchromesh is a 9.5 cSt MTL, whereas most ATFs range from 6.0 cSt to 8 cSt, so no, Pennzoil Synchromesh is thicker.

Last edited by MolaKule; 07/16/13 02:31 PM.

Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: antiqueshell] #3067119
07/16/13 02:32 PM
07/16/13 02:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,133
chicago, Illinois
antiqueshell Offline OP
antiqueshell  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,133
chicago, Illinois
It's odd that Valvoline has not released a product data sheet that defines exactly what the specifications are for this product. Since it appears that the product has been available for at least a few years now, it is only a name change that is the difference beginning in 2012 it seems.

If anyone can dig up a detailed data sheet with hard specs post it here!

Thanks.

Last edited by antiqueshell; 07/16/13 02:33 PM.
Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: antiqueshell] #3067134
07/16/13 02:49 PM
07/16/13 02:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,241
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,241
Iowegia - USA
Here is a PDS if it is the same MTL:

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vps_manual_transmission_fluid.pdf

However, they don't give the part number in the PDF.

This PDS says it is 14.5 cSt, GL-4, MTL, which in the ambiguous API weight ratings, would be similar to a 75W90.

Here is a problem in my view:

Quote:
and for top up applications in GM Part Number 12377916.


That GM part number is for the GM Synchromesh Fluid, Friction Modified MTL, which is a 10 cSt fluid and a semi-synthetic.

Last edited by MolaKule; 07/16/13 02:51 PM.

Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: MolaKule] #3067162
07/16/13 03:13 PM
07/16/13 03:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,133
chicago, Illinois
antiqueshell Offline OP
antiqueshell  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,133
chicago, Illinois
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Here is a PDS if it is the same MTL:

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vps_manual_transmission_fluid.pdf

However, they don't give the part number in the PDF.

This PDS says it is 14.5 cSt, GL-4, MTL, which in the ambiguous API weight ratings, would be similar to a 75W90.

Here is a problem in my view:

Quote:
and for top up applications in GM Part Number 12377916.


That GM part number is for the GM Synchromesh Fluid, Friction Modified MTL, which is a 10 cSt fluid and a semi-synthetic.


It specifically mentions "top up" applications for those part numbers, so I think that Valvoline doesn't recommend this fluid for refills of the entire unit. Whereas the top up probably wouldn't be enough fluid to change the characteristics of the OEM fluid fill. Probably 6-12 ounces won't cause an issue.

The 14.5 cst is just about the same as VW 501.50. which is
75w-90.

The fluid is also fully synthetic, and states it is FULLY COMPATIBLE with yellow metals bronze, copper, and brass. Most other fluids state yellow metal "friendly" which is a vague term.

This looks like a match for VW 501.50 (G50) Although it is odd that they don't mention the VW application. My guess is that they didn't get the approval of VW because they didn't want to pay for the tests to clear it.

Last edited by antiqueshell; 07/16/13 03:21 PM.
Re: Valvoline Synchromesh MTF? [Re: antiqueshell] #3067694
07/17/13 04:27 AM
07/17/13 04:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 680
Hawaii
gregoron Offline
gregoron  Offline
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 680
Hawaii
This VPS looks like a GL-4 match. Now the question is where do you get it and how much? I searched Amazon and couldn't find it. No luck with Google as well.

How about this other Ashland product through NAPA called "NAPA Premium Performance Gear Oil, 80W-85-90, GL-3/GL-4/GL-5"? It's recommended by Richard Ratwell from this website:

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/GearOil.html

Is it compatible with yellow metals? I couldn't validate this after searching through numerous sites.

PS. It's $5 a qt at NAPA.


Last edited by gregoron; 07/17/13 04:27 AM.

2014 Toyota Corolla L 6MT 134k mi 0W20, 2018-Current
1995 MB E320 238k mi 15W40 Delo, 2016-2018
2014 VW Jetta GLI 6MT 36k mi 0W40, 2015-2017
2000 VW Jetta 2.0 5MT 97k mi 0W40, 2011-2015
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