Marine 2 cycle oil in line trimmer?

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vtb

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Is this ill advised? Pennzoil's 2 cycle oil says it's for water cooled 2 strokes. There can't be that much difference, right? Would I kill my poor (air-cooled) line trimmer using this, or is it splitting hairs to worry?
 
Check the owner's manual to confirm what oil spec is required - it likely requires an oil rated TC (air cooled). Marine 2-stroke oils are TC-Wx (the latest is TC-W3). Some marine oils are also rated TC. The basic Pennzoil marine oil and Shell Nautilus are rate TC-Wx and TC, and are also suitable for mixtures as lean as 100:1.

Ian
 
basically, there are 2 types of 2-cycle oil: 1 (mostly ashless) are meant for low-temp (mostly marine) 2-cycle use; which ash based 2-cycle oil are meant for land use (trimmers, air-cooled 2-cycle applications, etc.)

Don't mix the types of oil intended for use with the applications for it will either foul up the engine, or cause premature wear, or combination of both.

http://www.sea-doo.net/techarticles/oil/oil.htm

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: vtb
Is this ill advised? Pennzoil's 2 cycle oil says it's for water cooled 2 strokes. There can't be that much difference, right? Would I kill my poor (air-cooled) line trimmer using this, or is it splitting hairs to worry?

If you run your trimmer "easy", I don't see a problem. If your running it WO through heavy grass for tanks at a time then get the right oil.
 
trimmers run real hot compared to an outboard motor. I wouldn't try it. Your going to carbon it up bad.
 
I guess it should work, but how much $$$ did the unit cost, and how much do you value it? Like was mentioned if it's easy use jobs you do it might not matter.
 
High speed air cooled engines should not use TC-W oil. It won't kill the machine but it will not be doing the job that TC oil would. You can run TC-W oil in lower revving two cycle air cooled engines. When you start to run them at up around 10000 rpm, you're risking bearing damage.
 
While very few of the trimmer style engines actually wear out, using the right oil is always a good idea.

I just took apart my John Deere trimmer (a Ryobi with upgrades). I use Mobil 1 MX2t, since I have plenty around. Impressive! The engine looks new. My foam filter failed and it sucked in stuff, oops.

Research shows that it's more important to get the ratio correct. High RPM engines need more oil.

You will find some 125cc motocross bikes using TCW-III with good results. However, the racers successfully doing this mix at 32 to 1 or even 24 to 1.
 
From a previous thread:

I bought a Toro QE221 back in January. Excellent SS machine.

I also own a couple Tecumseh 5 h.p. two cycle powered SS snow throwers to play with. I over-ride the governors on the Tecumseh engines to run a twice the operating rpms producing probably twice the power.

I flogged an old 1997 Craftsman machine mercilessly all winter running at 6000+ rpms and it runs great. At those speeds, it will out-perform the Toro. At it's stock speed of 3600 rpm, it's extremely lame.

I do not use TC W oil in any air cooled engines and for the life of me, I cannot understand why Toro would recommend a TC W3 oil for an air cooled engine.

Two cycle oils with the W in the rating nomenclature is for use with engines that will be used on the water. It has more to do with the use of organic components to improve exhaust emissions dispersal and reduce environmental impact than engine lubrication.

I own over twenty air cooled two cycle engines in all kinds of applications from motorcycles, snowmobiles to OPE. Everything air cooled gets TC-3 Canadian Tire Brand Motomaster two cycle oil. Been using it for twenty years or more with NO problems. At $15.00 or so per 4L jug, It's great oil for a great price.

See following excerpt from an article published by Spectro Oil:

"To prevent carbon buildup in the piston ring grooves, these TC oils used metal based detergents that were very effective in motorcycle engines but caused some problems in outboard engines when operated at long periods of time at one throttle setting. A whisker-like bridge could form across the sparkplug gap to permanently foul a cylinder under these conditions while the motorcyclist operating his engine at a constantly changing throttle setting never encountered this problem. When the BIA developed the TC-W rating, they excluded the use of these metal-based detergents in favor of organic detergents to eliminate this problem in outboard engines. These TC-W oils (two-cycle, water cooled) also contained lighter base oils without the bright stock 150. For engines operating in the 4,000 rpm to 5,000 rpm range, the absence of the bright stock 150 had no affect on piston and bearing life. However, off-road motorcyclists testing these new TC-W oils were disappointed with the bearing life of their engines operating at 10,000 - 11,000 rpm and quickly returned to using the TC oils."




For more of this article, here's the link:

Oil Info
 
DON'T do this..
Small 2-Stroke engines run at MUCH higher RPMS outboards.. Also these small engines are AIR cooled while the other is WATER cooled.. The Oils used in O/B's do NOT have the correct properties to protect these small air cooled engines.

I would suggest STIHL or ECHO oils and personally use the STIHL Syn oil.. It can be had in either 1,2, or 2.5 Gal Mix bottles each mixing the correct 50:1 ratio with no measuring needed..

Improper oils and mix ration can (and do) cause carbon build up in the exhaust port.. Best case the port gets restricted and the eng runs like [censored], worst case the carbon breaks off and scores the piston and cyl. trashing an otherwise good unit.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
...I own over twenty air cooled two cycle engines in all kinds of applications from motorcycles, snowmobiles to OPE. Everything air cooled gets TC-3 Canadian Tire Brand Motomaster two cycle oil. Been using it for twenty years or more with NO problems. At $15.00 or so per 4L jug, It's great oil for a great price. ...


Boraticus, what's the "TC-3" specification?

I thought that there were only API TC, NMMA TC-W3, and the JASO/ISO specs. for two-cycle oil. Was this a typo, or is TC-3 (no "W") some other category? If it's another spec., any info would be appreciated.
 
Lots of controversy on two stroke oils. The marine industry several years ago pushed for a new marine two stroke oil to cope with perceived engine corrosion problems. Sounds plausible, though I've not read technical reports on the claim. Other commentators say that marine engines run cooler internally. I take that with a grain of salt. A large two stroke engine pushing a cabin cruiser may operate at peak RPMs for many hours, with pistons significantly larger than anything commonly found in chainsaws, pruners, etc., and air cooled motorcycles.

Several major oil companies make and sell dual-rated two cycle engine oils. I've used one brand for years with no problems. Note that I am a light user despite having 10 or 12 air cooled two-cycle engine in various pieces of equipment.

Most small two cycle engines on hand-held equipment are not highly stressed, despite their noise level. My new Husqvarna 355XP chainsaw, considered a high performance 50cc saw, only puts out a bit over one horsepower per cubic inch. Racing air cooled two strokes easily double that, partly by using heavy resonance tuned exhaust systems, but water cooled engines have nearly eliminated air cooled motorcycle engines.

Individual oil recommendations, including mine, usually come with little scientific research, often reflect no more than a lack of problems, usually shared by other users with different recommendations The lack of objective, thorough, and well-documented comprehensive published research on two stroke engine oil is extreme.

If someone can advise on carefully done research papers, we will all become better informed.
 
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Originally Posted By: Slick17601
I'm going to find out since I have a case of Amsoil Saber 8 ounce bottles. I'll mix it 50:1 and sleep well.


I also use the Amsoil Saber in my 10-12 year old Echo weed wacker. No problems, and no smoke after start up. 50:1
 
I use TC-W3 as an UCL in my vehicles, but my OPE gets stihl ultra, saber, or trufuel depending on the equipment.

I have Penn syn tcw3 marine, and some Penn conventional "universal" that is still labeled tcw3 despite having a mower, trimmer, outboard, and something else on the label suggesting it's OK for air cooled OPE.
 
Originally Posted By: FNFAL308
DON'T do this..
1) The Oils used in O/B's do NOT have the correct properties to protect these small air cooled engines.

I would suggest STIHL or ECHO oils and personally use the STIHL Syn oil.. It can be had in either 1,2, or 2.5 Gal Mix bottles each mixing the correct 50:1 ratio with no measuring needed..

2) Improper oils and mix ratio can (and do) cause carbon build up in the exhaust port..


FNFAL hit on a couple of points.

1) Wear protection. TCW-III oils protect just fine, in most applications. Inlcluding air cooled applications, when enough oil is used. Don't expect excellent wear protection in your weed whacker at 100 to 1. 32 to 1 will be just fine.

2) Deposit buildup. TCW-III oils are engineered to prevent deposits at the temperatures that outboards operate at. They are not ideal for deposit protection in air cooled engines. However, many people use TCW-III oils in air cooled engines with good results. AND, without excess buildup.

As he mentioned, it's always best to use an oil engineered for the task at hand. He gave two good suggestions, both oils are EG-D qualified and will work very well.
 
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have a cheap curve shaft string trimmer that I ran the first 5-10 tanks with some leftover TCW3 I had at like 40:1. For some reason it became hard to start, revved weak, carboned the muffler and beaded the spark plug. I thought it was a lemon.
Anyhow, after that first can of tcw3 gas, I have been running it with Aspen (like Stihl premix alkylate gas) and Saber at 80:1 for 5-10 tanks and it runs much better, no beading and no goo dripping from muffler.
I (later) also changed the spark plug and fixed the spark wire and now it runs great, started on first pull this spring. Amazing.
I am not conviced that all kinds of tcw3 oil will do well in a trimmer. There may be good dual use oils but I'd be wary of just any tcw3.
 
Bought a quart of Lucas semi-synthetic 2-cycle oil for my craftsman blower and echo trimmer. They're both running great. I use a syringe measuring dispenser to get the correct ratio. I opted to do this because I wasn't going through a gallon per season. I now buy my 2-cycle gas a quarter gallon at a time.
 
Originally Posted By: Woody71
Bought a quart of Lucas semi-synthetic 2-cycle oil for my craftsman blower and echo trimmer. They're both running great. I use a syringe measuring dispenser to get the correct ratio. I opted to do this because I wasn't going through a gallon per season. I now buy my 2-cycle gas a quarter gallon at a time.


i'd just use truefuel if I were you
 
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