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#3023340 - 06/05/13 03:25 AM Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn
535678 Offline


Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 84
Loc: CA, United States
This seems to be a common problem for those with Toyota 2AZ-FE (4 cylinder, 2.4L) engines. At higher mileages, oil burn suddenly increases. I first noticed this about a year ago when I checked the dipstick and found the oil barely discernible on the low end of the stick. This never happened previously in such a short period.

Ever since I've kept careful notes. All fills listed below were with Mobil 1 HM 5W-30.

05-17-2012 -- 96987 miles -- drained 2.9 qts -- replaced Purolator filter, filled with 4.0 qts
09-02-2012 -- 99219 miles -- dipstick low, added 0.5 quarts
11-25-2012 -- 101550 miles -- dipstick low, added 0.3 quarts
06-04-2013 -- 105970 miles -- drained 3.2 qts -- replaced Purolator filter, filled with 4.0 qts

How much oil are we supposed to get with a drain and filter change, the full 4.0 quarts?

If yes this means it burned 1.6 quarts over the previous 8983 miles...roughly .178 quarts per 1000 miles.



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#3023342 - 06/05/13 03:52 AM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: 535678]
Voltmaster Offline


Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 923
Loc: California
whats the mileage ?

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#3023344 - 06/05/13 03:55 AM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: Voltmaster]
535678 Offline


Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 84
Loc: CA, United States
Originally Posted By: Voltmaster
whats the mileage ?


Read above.

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#3023367 - 06/05/13 05:11 AM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: 535678]
229 Offline


Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 748
Loc: Mid Atlantic
Is it leaking oil around the head gasket or losing coolant?
This engine series has a problem with the head bolt threads pulling out of the block.

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#3023376 - 06/05/13 05:42 AM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: 535678]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 6568
Loc: Hudson, NH
Capacity with filter is 4qts. Cant be exact measuring with a dipstick. All oil doesn't come out whether its been sitting 5 mins or 5 hours. Oil remains absorbed in the filter media. Use 1qt every 5k. Close enough.

You say suddenly. Is that why you switched to M1 HM? How long have you been using M1 HM? What oil was used prior? What year is the engine? Different years, different problems.
_________________________
06 Escalade 6.0L AWD 160k. M1 5w30 Fram TG
03 Maxima 3.5L 149k ST HM 10w30

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#3023389 - 06/05/13 06:03 AM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: 535678]
535678 Offline


Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 84
Loc: CA, United States
I was under the impression Purolator PureONE filters do not absorb as much oil. Whenever I change mine, I turn them upside down on the drain pan for several hours to let them drain.

2004 model engine 2AZ-FE

For this drain I jacked up the left front (as if I was changing a tire) and got another 0.2 quarts drained that way.

Been using synthetics exclusively for the last 50K miles. Used PP for a while, then regular M1 synthetic. No reason other than the odometer reading for switching to M1 HM the last two oil changes.

Yes, suddenly in the sense consumption increased dramatically around 90K. Reading the Toyota forums, this seems to be quite common...the consumption problems for many begin at 80K-100K miles. In my case, it was burning at most 0.3-0.5 quarts every 5000 miles up until 90K miles.

No coolant loss. No head gasket leaks. No leaks out the bottom.

I realize the consumption I'm seeing is nowhere near as bad as others are seeing. My question is whether to expect consumption to keep increasing or will it somewhat stabilize for a while? On a side note, I should probably replace the PCV valve as that's never been done on this engine.

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#3023391 - 06/05/13 06:05 AM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: 535678]
535678 Offline


Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 84
Loc: CA, United States
On another side note, I did take an oil sample, so I'll be sending it off to Blackstone for analysis.

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#3023408 - 06/05/13 06:41 AM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: 535678]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 6568
Loc: Hudson, NH
I don't drain for long periods for every last drop so I don't know exactly how much comes out. Want to avoid dry starts, when most engine wear occurs.

Your going 10k a year, assume local car. Not much heat, should be ok with the stripped thread issue. Drain and fill the coolant if you haven't.

The main oil consumption issues in that year are the valve seals or clogged piston oil return holes. By now, M1 HM has done all it can do for seals. In this engine, a 1 second small puff of blue smoke can be noticed at the tailpipe on a morning start only. It happens fast, will only be noticed if your behind the car when it starts. Have somebody else start it in the morning and watch. if you see the blue puff, have the valve seals replaced.

The piston oil return hole clogging is cumulative from day 1. So its more what happened early in the cars life, not necessarily recent. Because of location, flow, and depth of deposits in the holes, near impossible to remove unless caught early. You can try solvents, but IMO only answer is teardown. Expensive. IMO not worth it.

PCV may help, use an OE only.

Can't say it won't get worse, but mine hasn't in well over 100k. I burn more than you, but M1 HM made consumption lessen over 2 OCI's. Because in my case the valve seals are bad. The cost of repair is not justified in this car so I'm living with it. Burning 1 qt every 3500-4k.

Lastly, not all oil consumption is bad. You get a chance to replenish, which means you can extend the interval longer. Using M1 HM, 1 year/10k is fine. Personal opinion, use a high efficiency extended interval synthetic media oil filter rather than a resin/paper media filter. Better flow longer.
_________________________
06 Escalade 6.0L AWD 160k. M1 5w30 Fram TG
03 Maxima 3.5L 149k ST HM 10w30

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#3023419 - 06/05/13 07:03 AM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: 535678]
KitaCam Offline


Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 2280
Loc: SunnySouthFlorida
OP:
When changing the PCV valve, check the hose...mine was brittle-hard/cracked at each end and needed replacing too ($15 @ dealer)...

I got my 2AZ-FE @97.5K and with PYB 5w-30 it had dropped to 1/3qt down after 3k miles when I switched to PP 5w-30 @ 103k...when I changed plugs, PCV valve/hose, valve cover gasket...

I'd feel your concern too for a loss/burn increase from .5qt/5k miles to .5qt/2500 miles....with PP mine's only bit better @ .5qt/3-3.5k miles....but...

The loss/burn off RATE MAY LESSEN between half-way down to the "L" line and the "L"...at least that's what I've read others have experienced...so what I'm going to do monitor the dipstick and see just how many miles it takes to get to "L"...when it'll get the next OC...this is only my 2nd OCI (the engine's first with synthetic) so I'm not sure what to expect...

I know this is too simple, given your your attention to detail, but since didn't mention it...when you did fill up, was the oil AT the "F" line?...and...
Has you driving changed at all...like more highway miles?


Edited by KitaCam (06/05/13 07:10 AM)
_________________________
Kitacam is an 05 Camry LE/I4/MT; latest OC: 2/17 @ 142,300....PP 5w-30 with Toyo filter

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#3023421 - 06/05/13 07:06 AM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: 535678]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 6568
Loc: Hudson, NH
Also if you have no external gasket leaks... In your climate I would try M1 0w40. A thicker operating weight will slow consumption in both areas discussed. Sold in the walmart jug now! Currently on rollback at $22.47 / 5qt jug

If you want to blend M1 HM 5w30 with M1 HM 10w40 thats fine too. Top off with a quart of M1 HM 10w40, see what that does.
_________________________
06 Escalade 6.0L AWD 160k. M1 5w30 Fram TG
03 Maxima 3.5L 149k ST HM 10w30

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#3023473 - 06/05/13 08:11 AM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: 535678]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 6170
Loc: North Coast
I have one that is not burning yet but am only at 80k miles. However, it has had synthetic with 5k oil changes since new. But it is a common issue with this engine for certain years. I have one of the ones that requires a tear down to replace the rings to fix it. This will never happen as long as I own it. So, I keep using any synthetic. My neighbor has one and he changes oil every 5000 and just puts 4.5 quarts in and uses the .5 quart in 5000.


Edited by Doog (06/05/13 08:12 AM)
_________________________
The difference between a beer and your opinion is that I asked for a beer... well except for just now..Coffee2

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#3023539 - 06/05/13 10:03 AM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: 535678]
ronbo Offline


Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 800
Loc: western ny, usa
NOTE: the PVC value is called a ventilation valve in the RAV4.
I have the mentioned engine and I too noted an oil use increase at about 90,000 miles. (108,000 miles now). I known for a while that I need to check my "PVC" valve.

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#3023567 - 06/05/13 10:33 AM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: 535678]
KitaCam Offline


Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 2280
Loc: SunnySouthFlorida
Yes, Ron...PCV = Positive Crankcase Ventilation
_________________________
Kitacam is an 05 Camry LE/I4/MT; latest OC: 2/17 @ 142,300....PP 5w-30 with Toyo filter

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#3023765 - 06/05/13 02:43 PM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: LeakySeals]
535678 Offline


Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 84
Loc: CA, United States
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals

The main oil consumption issues in that year are the valve seals or clogged piston oil return holes. By now, M1 HM has done all it can do for seals. In this engine, a 1 second small puff of blue smoke can be noticed at the tailpipe on a morning start only. It happens fast, will only be noticed if your behind the car when it starts. Have somebody else start it in the morning and watch. if you see the blue puff, have the valve seals replaced.

The piston oil return hole clogging is cumulative from day 1. So its more what happened early in the cars life, not necessarily recent. Because of location, flow, and depth of deposits in the holes, near impossible to remove unless caught early. You can try solvents, but IMO only answer is teardown. Expensive. IMO not worth it.

PCV may help, use an OE only.


I'll inspect for blue smoke in the morning. Good tip, thanks!

The car has had 66% city (25-50 MPH stop and go) and 33% freeway (no more than 65-70 MPH around here) its whole life. The overwhelming majority of the driving has been thirty to forty minutes commuting to and from work, approx 35 miles per day. We don't drive our cars rough, if anything we're light footed to save gas.

I've read about the piston oil return hole clogging on the Toyota forums. In fact, I think I read comments made by you on this very topic. This is really frustrating, especially on a Toyota product. It's a great car in every other respect. I hate the idea of having to sell or junk it prematurely because it needs an engine rebuild.

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals

Lastly, not all oil consumption is bad. You get a chance to replenish, which means you can extend the interval longer. Using M1 HM, 1 year/10k is fine. Personal opinion, use a high efficiency extended interval synthetic media oil filter rather than a resin/paper media filter. Better flow longer.


I thought Purolator PureONE were considered high efficiency/extended interval with synthetic media?

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#3023781 - 06/05/13 03:01 PM Re: Toyota 2AZ-FE oil burn [Re: KitaCam]
535678 Offline


Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 84
Loc: CA, United States
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
OP:
When changing the PCV valve, check the hose...mine was brittle-hard/cracked at each end and needed replacing too ($15 @ dealer)...

Thanks for the tip!

Originally Posted By: KitaCam

I got my 2AZ-FE @97.5K and with PYB 5w-30 it had dropped to 1/3qt down after 3k miles when I switched to PP 5w-30 @ 103k...when I changed plugs, PCV valve/hose, valve cover gasket...

I'd feel your concern too for a loss/burn increase from .5qt/5k miles to .5qt/2500 miles....with PP mine's only bit better @ .5qt/3-3.5k miles....but...

The problem for me is that the ladies in the family drive the RAV4 far more often than I do. They're not as mechanically inclined to check the oil level and add oil on their own. The burden is on me to keep track of these things.

If the oil consumption gets much worse, I see this being really problematic when they want to take it on road trips. And even if I could teach them how to fill the oil, this is something they will completely forget about until they get home. I hate to stereotype all women like this, but every woman I've known has been terribly naive in this department.

Originally Posted By: KitaCam

The loss/burn off RATE MAY LESSEN between half-way down to the "L" line and the "L"...at least that's what I've read others have experienced...so what I'm going to do monitor the dipstick and see just how many miles it takes to get to "L"...when it'll get the next OC...this is only my 2nd OCI (the engine's first with synthetic) so I'm not sure what to expect...

I know this is too simple, given your your attention to detail, but since didn't mention it...when you did fill up, was the oil AT the "F" line?...and...
Has you driving changed at all...like more highway miles?


Yes, I've been refilling up to the F line on the dipstick.

Driving has been the same over the life of the car. Mostly city, some freeway locally, and the remaining freeway has been road trips.

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