As in, the "cleaner gas" adverts from BP, Shell.. Really, those two. When gas gets distributed from the nearest distribution point, and, as per Federal law, gas is gas is gas.
What say you?
What say you?
Please educate me on why "better gas" is phooey
- Thread starter TechnoLoGs
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs
as per Federal law, gas is gas is gas.
What say you?
That's actually NOT the federal law. The feds set a minimum performance standard that companies are free to exceed. Hence things like Top Tier fuels.
as per Federal law, gas is gas is gas.
What say you?
That's actually NOT the federal law. The feds set a minimum performance standard that companies are free to exceed. Hence things like Top Tier fuels.
Originally Posted By: AlienBug
Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs
as per Federal law, gas is gas is gas.
What say you?
That's actually NOT the federal law. The feds set a minimum performance standard that companies are free to exceed. Hence things like Top Tier fuels.
My confusion comes in when I see some no-name local truck giving gas to Circle K, then stopping down the street to deliver gas to the no-name that costs 10 cents a gallon less. As far as I know, all across the country, this sabotages any/all "branding."
?
Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs
as per Federal law, gas is gas is gas.
What say you?
That's actually NOT the federal law. The feds set a minimum performance standard that companies are free to exceed. Hence things like Top Tier fuels.
My confusion comes in when I see some no-name local truck giving gas to Circle K, then stopping down the street to deliver gas to the no-name that costs 10 cents a gallon less. As far as I know, all across the country, this sabotages any/all "branding."
?
The gas that gets distributed needs to meet octane requirements along with others like an oxidizer for colder weather. It also must have a minimum of injector cleaner to keep the injectors clean.
But the gas companies are free to choose the injector cleaner and how much, as long as there is a minimum amount.
So the raw gas might be similar, but its all the other stuff added that brings it to a top tier.
But the gas companies are free to choose the injector cleaner and how much, as long as there is a minimum amount.
So the raw gas might be similar, but its all the other stuff added that brings it to a top tier.
You realize that tankers have numerous compartments and can deliver different gas to different stations>
Also, stations can additize in the tanks or at the pump.
Most certainly, gas is not gas, is not gas. Now whether my Saturn can tell the difference is a whole 'nother story.
Also, stations can additize in the tanks or at the pump.
Most certainly, gas is not gas, is not gas. Now whether my Saturn can tell the difference is a whole 'nother story.
It's not phooey. When someone complains about their MPG dropping or vehicle running poorly one of the first simple (simple being the keyword) suggestions you will hear on auto forums like this is throw in a bottle of techron or similar type product. If the minimum federal standard for detergent in gas is really adequate why would someone car savvy suggest that? You only put 5 quarts of oil in your vehicle every 5,000 - 8,000 miles, but you pump a gallon of gas through your vehicle every 25-35 miles you drive. Do you really want to rely on the minimum federal standard to protect your vehicle.
BTW. The gas is gas is gas argument has a flaw. In most cases the extra detergents and additives offered by Shell, Chevron, BP etc are added after the refining process. Even if they get their gas from the same refinery as the cheaper stations it's not the same product you are putting in your vehicle.
BTW. The gas is gas is gas argument has a flaw. In most cases the extra detergents and additives offered by Shell, Chevron, BP etc are added after the refining process. Even if they get their gas from the same refinery as the cheaper stations it's not the same product you are putting in your vehicle.
In aftermarket turbocharged cars, fuel quality is quite easy to determine. And, there IS A DIFFERENCE.
From the significantly lower number of ECU recorded "knock events" produced by top tier fuels, to actual HP output. The better fuels are instantly obvious.
In my 385HP turbo Miata, it's easy to feel (and hear) the difference. In my 2011 F150 Ecoboost, the difference is more subtle, but boosted HP is boosted HP and the Ecoboost responds with more power when top tier fuels are used.
From the significantly lower number of ECU recorded "knock events" produced by top tier fuels, to actual HP output. The better fuels are instantly obvious.
In my 385HP turbo Miata, it's easy to feel (and hear) the difference. In my 2011 F150 Ecoboost, the difference is more subtle, but boosted HP is boosted HP and the Ecoboost responds with more power when top tier fuels are used.
The higher prices go, the less the percent difference is between tier-1 brands and no-name stations....and...
Brand names will give discounts (e.g. "fuel perks") and credit card programs (3-5%) will make those brands cheaper...
As for no-name quality...choose your poison...
Brand names will give discounts (e.g. "fuel perks") and credit card programs (3-5%) will make those brands cheaper...
As for no-name quality...choose your poison...
Last edited:
What would a woodmans gas station be considered?
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Brand names will give discounts (e.g. "fuel perks") and credit card programs (3-5%) will make those brands cheaper...
I believe that you pay for those "rewards" with the higher price to begin with.
Say someone has a regular gas treatment regimen, maybe the new Royal Purple stuff fairly frequently. (Offset so that the 5 or so gallons still go in, and you dont put in additives or cleaners that exceed the price of a tank of gas, or 1/3 of it. Moving on from Seafoam.) ?
Brand names will give discounts (e.g. "fuel perks") and credit card programs (3-5%) will make those brands cheaper...
I believe that you pay for those "rewards" with the higher price to begin with.
Say someone has a regular gas treatment regimen, maybe the new Royal Purple stuff fairly frequently. (Offset so that the 5 or so gallons still go in, and you dont put in additives or cleaners that exceed the price of a tank of gas, or 1/3 of it. Moving on from Seafoam.) ?
JHZR2
Staff member
Lots of different things come into play here...
1) Ethanol content - less/more? Is the content by batch validated by an analytical lab?
2) Tanks and pumps - are they truly sealed with low water ingress and good separation and filtration?
3) Additization - assuming EPA minimums are maintained, how much more is put in and of what?
Amoco ultimate used to be undyed and processed to the point that it was clear; and supposedly was transferred separately as a different slug in pipelines. It may not have been produced everywhere, and may have been distributed differently. It, like certified top tier fuels, are examples where there were brand differentiation aspects that are valid.
How much of a difference it makes is not clear, and may differ case by case. Especially since there is one other wild card:
4) Turnover - How fresh is the fuel, and how often do they get new stock?
1) Ethanol content - less/more? Is the content by batch validated by an analytical lab?
2) Tanks and pumps - are they truly sealed with low water ingress and good separation and filtration?
3) Additization - assuming EPA minimums are maintained, how much more is put in and of what?
Amoco ultimate used to be undyed and processed to the point that it was clear; and supposedly was transferred separately as a different slug in pipelines. It may not have been produced everywhere, and may have been distributed differently. It, like certified top tier fuels, are examples where there were brand differentiation aspects that are valid.
How much of a difference it makes is not clear, and may differ case by case. Especially since there is one other wild card:
4) Turnover - How fresh is the fuel, and how often do they get new stock?
Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Brand names will give discounts (e.g. "fuel perks") and credit card programs (3-5%) will make those brands cheaper...
I believe that you pay for those "rewards" with the higher price to begin with.
Say someone has a regular gas treatment regimen, maybe the new Royal Purple stuff fairly frequently. (Offset so that the 5 or so gallons still go in, and you dont put in additives or cleaners that exceed the price of a tank of gas, or 1/3 of it. Moving on from Seafoam.) ?
If you shop carefully the "rewards" pay off...if you shop carefully..
If you have an added treatment regime you pay extra there...but a lot of people like adding treatments to fuel and lubes...
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Brand names will give discounts (e.g. "fuel perks") and credit card programs (3-5%) will make those brands cheaper...
I believe that you pay for those "rewards" with the higher price to begin with.
Say someone has a regular gas treatment regimen, maybe the new Royal Purple stuff fairly frequently. (Offset so that the 5 or so gallons still go in, and you dont put in additives or cleaners that exceed the price of a tank of gas, or 1/3 of it. Moving on from Seafoam.) ?
If you shop carefully the "rewards" pay off...if you shop carefully..
If you have an added treatment regime you pay extra there...but a lot of people like adding treatments to fuel and lubes...
It's not so much "better gas" as "better additives". Unless you find ethanol-free gas.. then yes, that's better.
Its been proven by consumer reports , etc .
Oil is oil , Gas is gas.
In the bigger picture,Its the care of the stations tanks and consumer care of the motor that makes the biggest differences.
Unless you have your car constantly computer monitored , you can not read gas mileage accurately to know if your mileage changed.
B.P ,Shell and Costco , all market higher additive gas yet Speedway gets higher quality marks.
There are no absolutes, but in most cases , brand name gas is at least consistent and have regular tank maintenance. Seeing that all the gas comes through the same pipelines and refineries, its pretty close in quality. Exceptions, yes.
Overall Gas is Gas
Oil is oil , Gas is gas.
In the bigger picture,Its the care of the stations tanks and consumer care of the motor that makes the biggest differences.
Unless you have your car constantly computer monitored , you can not read gas mileage accurately to know if your mileage changed.
B.P ,Shell and Costco , all market higher additive gas yet Speedway gets higher quality marks.
There are no absolutes, but in most cases , brand name gas is at least consistent and have regular tank maintenance. Seeing that all the gas comes through the same pipelines and refineries, its pretty close in quality. Exceptions, yes.
Overall Gas is Gas
[/quote]
My confusion comes in when I see some no-name local truck giving gas to Circle K, then stopping down the street to deliver gas to the no-name that costs 10 cents a gallon less. As far as I know, all across the country, this sabotages any/all "branding."
? [/quote]
Many oil delivery trucks have separate tanks. It is possible to have different octanes and different additive levels on the same truck. Also, to save money, many of the name brand stations by me have been using local deliverers.
My confusion comes in when I see some no-name local truck giving gas to Circle K, then stopping down the street to deliver gas to the no-name that costs 10 cents a gallon less. As far as I know, all across the country, this sabotages any/all "branding."
? [/quote]
Many oil delivery trucks have separate tanks. It is possible to have different octanes and different additive levels on the same truck. Also, to save money, many of the name brand stations by me have been using local deliverers.
Last edited:
Also confused about gasoline "dyes"
chad8's post seems to reflect my understanding of the situation.
Isnt it more a regional/local distribution thing, OR sometimes additives are sprayed in AS the gas goes into tanker, this making it certain "brand?"
And how much truth IS there to the "top tier" being better? Shell with nitrogen, etc?
chad8's post seems to reflect my understanding of the situation.
Isnt it more a regional/local distribution thing, OR sometimes additives are sprayed in AS the gas goes into tanker, this making it certain "brand?"
And how much truth IS there to the "top tier" being better? Shell with nitrogen, etc?
Statistically, 90% of gasoline arrives in Western Oregon by a single pipeline from four refineries (BP, Tesoro, Shell, Conoco/Phillips 66) in northwestern Washington. That gasoline arrives at distributors in Portland mixed & unbranded where additives are then added to the transport trucks prior to delivery per customer/brand specs. The other 10% arrives via barge from a Chevron refinery in California.
The only difference between gasolines in western Washinton/Oregon is the additives added at the distribution point where the differentiation is made between Top Tier brands and other fuel outlets, branded or unbranded.
The only difference between gasolines in western Washinton/Oregon is the additives added at the distribution point where the differentiation is made between Top Tier brands and other fuel outlets, branded or unbranded.
Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs
As in, the "cleaner gas" adverts from BP, Shell.. Really, those two. When gas gets distributed from the nearest distribution point, and, as per Federal law, gas is gas is gas.
What say you?
In case you weren't aware. Their have been tests done on gas at the pump and the gas from BP, Shell, Exxon, Conoco, etc. all do vary. They are different regardless of distribution.
One thing I learned recently is that distribution terminals that "all" local gas distribution trucks fill up at, lease out storage space to different formulators. One terminal can have several different brands of gas stored there and tanks on trucks have more than one compartment so the same truck and deliver multiple brands of gas.
As in, the "cleaner gas" adverts from BP, Shell.. Really, those two. When gas gets distributed from the nearest distribution point, and, as per Federal law, gas is gas is gas.
What say you?
In case you weren't aware. Their have been tests done on gas at the pump and the gas from BP, Shell, Exxon, Conoco, etc. all do vary. They are different regardless of distribution.
One thing I learned recently is that distribution terminals that "all" local gas distribution trucks fill up at, lease out storage space to different formulators. One terminal can have several different brands of gas stored there and tanks on trucks have more than one compartment so the same truck and deliver multiple brands of gas.
I live south of Chicago in a rural area. 95% of the gas comes from two pipeline terminals. The gas is all the same. The additives and ethanol are added when the tanker fills.
Who knows what the top tier stations are doing compared to the cheaper stations. I've never sen a difference over the years. Always go for the cheapest stuff but the prices anymore are all the the same so......
Who knows what the top tier stations are doing compared to the cheaper stations. I've never sen a difference over the years. Always go for the cheapest stuff but the prices anymore are all the the same so......
- Status