I need 75W85 Gear Oil...

[1999cutiger]

for my 2011 Toyota Tundra rear differential. The factory fluid is 75W85 (GL-5) full-synthetic without lsd additive.

I don't want to deviate from the 75W85 Toyota spec, however, I also don't want to pay $35 per liter from Toyota.

75W85 gear oil is rare. However, I found this stuff (link below) from Joe Gibbs. I know it's made for race cars...but would it work well for my truck? It's seems to be similar to my Toyota fluid...but probably on steroids.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/jgr-00830/overview/

What say the experts? Thanks in advance guys...

P.S. I won't use Redline 75W85...it has an LSD additive.

 

[miniac007]

You must have a spec number from Toyota associated with the oil to use. Just chose an oil that has this spec. I don't think the racing oil you show has it...

You have with Toyota specs Ravenol MTF-1 SAE 75W-85 if you can find it, 100% synth POA

API GL-4 / GL-5

General Motors (GM) 1940182
General Motors (GM) 93740319
Hyundai 04300-00110
Hyundai 04300-00140
Hyundai 08950-00020-A
Hyundai 08950-00020-B
MB 235.7 A 001 989 33 03
MB 235.4 A 001 989 14 03
Mitsubishi 3717610
MTF BOT 402 BOT 0063 für F35/MU3 5-Gang SAAB/GM/Opel
Nissan KLD26-75802
Nissan KE91699931
Nissan KE91699942
Nissan 999MP-MTF00P
OPEL B 040 2071
TOYOTA 08885-02606
TOYOTA 08885-81070
TOYOTA 08885-81060

or FUCHS TITAN SINTOPOID FE 75W-85 GL-5 GEAR OIL

ALFA ROMEO
BMW
FIAT
LANCIA
VW TL 521 45-X (G 052 145 A1)
VW TL 521 90 (G 052 190 A2/G 055 190 A2)
TOYOTA 08885-02606, 08885-81070, 08885-81060

 

[INDYMAC]

My Toyota dealer uses SAE 80W-90 in every Tundra diff and t-case.
I use SAE 110 in every rear diff. Good luck with the 75W-85 though. I hope it meets your needs.

 

[dnewton3]

Quote:
I don't want to deviate from the 75W85 Toyota spec, however, I also don't want to pay $35 per liter from Toyota


You want a very rare grade lube that's very inexpensive? Good luck with that ...

My suggestion is to grab a common 75w-90 syn or 80w-90 dino GL-5 lube and find something else to worry about.

 

[oliver88]

Always ran Redline in mine...many hundreds of thousands on it...

 

[1999cutiger]

Originally Posted By: oliver88
Always ran Redline in mine...many hundreds of thousands on it...


Thanks for your feedback.

Are you running the Redline 75W85? And, what year Tundra do you have? LSD or not?

 

[01rangerxl]

75W90 will be totally fine to use and is available at most any parts store. That's a pretty marginal grade difference in a component that really doesn't care. I went from 80W90 to 75W140 in my old truck and hardly noticed a difference.

The Joe Gibbs oil will be fine though.

LSD additive will not harm an open diff at all. It's perfectly fine to use an oil that has it.

 

[bmwtechguy]

Don't obsess with those numbers man. An open diff is not too picky about lube, except it must have GL5 spec. Job Gibbs racing stuff probably very expensive even if not as much as dealer stuff. Find a good 75W-90, 80W-90, or even 75W-110, and call it a day. Amsoil, Redline, Mobil 1, Schaeffers (my favorite), Valvoline, etc. LSD adds that may be in the mix will not hurt a thing. Make sure you can get the fill plug open before you open up the drain plug and empty it out (tip).

 

[VintageMonte]

I have a GM 7.5/7.625 10-bolt limited slip differential in my 1981 Chevy Monte Carlo and I am in the process of swapping out the differential cover and replacing the gear oil. I have a Gen I Chevy small block 350 with a TH350 transmission in the car and the previous owner used to drag race the car but I do not. I have done a bunch of research and have decided to go with an 80W-90 mineral gear oil. I went to the local Chevy dealership and purchased the ACDelco Limited Slip Axle Lubricant Additive and while I was there I also bought the ACDelco 80W-90 Axle Lubricant. This is what I planned on using but it only meets the GL-4 requirements. While this gear oil has been formulated for GM axles I am concerned that it will not provided the same shock protection as a GL-5 rated gear oil. While I do not drag race the car I do drive it hard at times and since it is geared for the strip it will regularly break the rear wheels loose when shifting from 1st to 2nd and from 2nd to 3rd gear. The downside to the GL-5 would be the concern about EP additives and their effect on my older components. I know that most mineral gear oils now contain "inactive" sulfur which is mediated by metal deactivators and which do not allow the sulfur to interact with the copper-alloy metals I still wonder if I would be better off with the GL-4 ACDelco gear oil or if I can safely upgrade to the GL-4/GL-5 rated to get the EP protection. If I go that route was going to use Valvoline’s High Performance 80W-90 gear oil. Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: 1999cutiger
for my 2011 Toyota Tundra rear differential. The factory fluid is 75W85 (GL-5) full-synthetic without lsd additive.

I don't want to deviate from the 75W85 Toyota spec, however, I also don't want to pay $35 per liter from Toyota.

75W85 gear oil is rare. However, I found this stuff (link below) from Joe Gibbs. I know it's made for race cars...but would it work well for my truck? It's seems to be similar to my Toyota fluid...but probably on steroids.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/jgr-00830/overview/

What say the experts? Thanks in advance guys...

P.S. I won't use Redline 75W85...it has an LSD additive.


There is nothing in the 2011 Tundra owner's manual that states to avoid LSD additive which would be the only reason I would worry about it. As others have said it won't hurt anything.

I am with the others about going to a 75W90 GL5 as well. Like you I wouldn't pay $30+ a qt for the OE stuff. I would either run the Redline or get a 75W90 GL5 and not sweat it.

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: 1999cutiger

P.S. I won't use Redline 75W85...it has an LSD additive.


First, LSD additive won't do anything in an open diff.

I have used Mobil1 75w90LS and Redline 75w140 in my T4R open diff. The RL was best. Amsoil makes a 75w110 which will be your absolute best bet and you can run it 100,000 miles.

 

[Jim Allen]

Also, an LSD additive reduces the oxidative stability of the oil, which could lead to a shorter service life, especially if run at consistently high oil temps. This was more true with the old FMs than it is with the best of the stuff today, but if you don't need it, don't install it or use oil with it installed.

PS- Many people run 75W90 in the Toy diffs spec'ed for 75W85 oil. The lighter oil, which has a very advanced additive package from Lubrizol, is very good stuff and designed to achieve lower rolling resistance without any adverse effects of wear or axle durability. I would trust it in every application where a 75W90 could be used but I would also baulk at the price. By a quality name brand off-the-shelf 75W90 syn... and call it good is my advice.

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Also, an LSD additive reduces the oxidative stability of the oil, which could lead to a shorter service life, especially if run at consistently high oil temps. This was more true with the old FMs than it is with the best of the stuff today, but if you don't need it, don't install it or use oil with it installed.

PS- Many people run 75W90 in the Toy diffs spec'ed for 75W85 oil. The lighter oil, which has a very advanced additive package from Lubrizol, is very good stuff and designed to achieve lower rolling resistance without any adverse effects of wear or axle durability. I would trust it in every application where a 75W90 could be used but I would also baulk at the price. By a quality name brand off-the-shelf 75W90 syn... and call it good is my advice.


Any idea why so many commercial gear oils come with LS additive these days Jim? Seems like most applications don't require it.

What are your thoughts on heat cycles for new gears and early fluid changes? I've seen aftermarket manufacturers outlining very specific procedures to comply with warranty, but no guideance at all from OEM's in the owners manual.

I wish I shared your confidence in the newer 75W-85 GL-5 gear oil to be up to the task. I've seen, heard and read to much about front diff and third member repacements on very new Tundra's to use anything with that spec in my 2013 Tundra.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
P.S. I won't use Redline 75W85...it has an LSD additive.


I would use it without any concerns since it has a GL-5 rating. Toyota went with a lower viscosity diffy fluid to wring out a few more fleet mpg numbers.

The LSD additives available today will not cause increased oxidation. LSD chemistries have improved oxidation components not available in those yesteryear LSD additives.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Any idea why so many commercial gear oils come with LS additive these days Jim? Seems like most applications don't require it.


They want to cover LSD applications as well.

Quote:
What are your thoughts on heat cycles for new gears and early fluid changes? I've seen aftermarket manufacturers outlining very specific procedures to comply with warranty, but no guideance at all from OEM's in the owners manual.


As a preventative maintenance step, I prefer to change out the OEM diffy fluid within 30,000 miles and here is the reasoning:

Machining and initial wear materials are metals of course. And metal molecules tend to form oxidation artifacts which may attack the other additives such as the EP additive components.

Draining the fluid, wiping out the case, and then adding the new fluid will actually prolong the refill's life.

Do not flush the diffy.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule

I would use it without any concerns since it has a GL-5 rating. Toyota went with a lower viscosity diffy fluid to wring out a few more fleet mpg numbers.



I have no problem with this comment, but it brings to mind a bit of irony ...

If this were an engine lube, many folks would be clamoring over the "need" for a thicker grade. They would be beating up the "thin" lube because it was perceived to be inferior.

But here, the OP is intent on finding just the very same "right" grade, which is thinner to satisfy a MPG target for corporate goals, as Mola has indicated (and I have no reason to believe he's wrong).

Ironic, is it not, that if this were a 5w-20 motor oil, some would be eschewing that "thin" grade for sake of a 5w-30 or 10w-30. But here, the answer is tending for some to use an uber-expensive grade match from Gibbs ....

Folks, small grade shifts don't make a hooey bit of difference. Match up the appropriate specs (in this case API GL-5), get a vis near what you need, and find a product in a good price point, and quit worrying over silly little stuff.

I suggest either a GL-5 80w-90 mineral or 75w-90 syn, then match your OCI with your lube, and find something else to obsess over. You know; like engine oil ...

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
P.S. I won't use Redline 75W85...it has an LSD additive.


The LSD additives available today will not cause increased oxidation. LSD chemistries have improved oxidation components not available in those yesteryear LSD additives.


Mola, could you elaborate on this? I know the old FM were organic in nature and had rather low temperature stability. What I don't know is what the new stuff is. I haven't really dug into it. There doesn't seem to be much available on the web about it in a cursory search and I haven't queried my professional sources yet. Till now ( : < ) and you are the first. If you don't have time for chapter and verse, perhaps a few leads to follow???

 

[1999cutiger]

Well, I decided to bite the bullet and give Toyota $125 for their gear oil. I've got $34,000 in my truck...another $125 is no big deal.

I came to this realization: The engineers at Toyota are very smart folks (a lot smarter than me). If they spec 75W-85 for the rear-end, it is for good reason, and that is what I'm going to use.

Thanks to all who took the time to answer my questions and offer feedback!

P.S. I called and spoke to a Chemical Engineer at tech support for Chevron to see if they make a 75W-85 (GL-5). He made three things clear:

1) Chevron does not make a gear oil suitable for my truck (75W-85).

2) The weight spec'd by the manufacturer should be followed to the letter.

3) Long term, it does matter if you use the wrong oil. It matters greatly...

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
P.S. I won't use Redline 75W85...it has an LSD additive.


The LSD additives available today will not cause increased oxidation. LSD chemistries have improved oxidation components not available in those yesteryear LSD additives.


Mola, could you elaborate on this? I know the old FM were organic in nature and had rather low temperature stability. What I don't know is what the new stuff is. I haven't really dug into it. There doesn't seem to be much available on the web about it in a cursory search and I haven't queried my professional sources yet. Till now ( : < ) and you are the first. If you don't have time for chapter and verse, perhaps a few leads to follow???


First, the new generation of anti-oxidants are leaps and bounds better and more stable today than in previous years. These anti-oxidants are included in both the gear oils and the LSD additives. Metal inhibitors are better as well and help to retard the oxidation process as well.

The LSD friction modifiers are more stable as well.

As to the exact chemistry's involved I am not at liberty to discuss those.

 

[Jim Allen]

OK, Mola then what were the chemistries of the old FM that made them more susceptible to oxidation?

As to the new ones, can you give me some idea of what they are in a generic sense?

And just to be crystal clear, you are saying that the oxidation rates of oil with FM or without will be virtually identical? And that while there is no advantage to running an LSD additive with additional FM, there is no real downside either? Correct?