Mobil 1 0W40 SN VOA

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
Why change a winning formula?


That ones easy to answer. It costs them less to make the sn version with visom then the previous sm version that had a very high % of pao. The sn version has slightly worse specs however I believe that in actual use the difference would be imperceptible.
But it's all about money,and saving a few pennies per quart adds up really fast when multiplied by millions of quarts.


The SN version is also less shear prone, so that's actually an improvement, if you consider its potential to shear in certain applications a detriment.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: 147_Grain


I consider Mobil 1's 0W-40 to be their top synthetic oil and trust they won't compromise things in favor of profit over quality of product.


Well actually they did. The sm was changed to the lesser cost base stock called visom.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
Why change a winning formula?


That ones easy to answer. It costs them less to make the sn version with visom then the previous sm version that had a very high % of pao. The sn version has slightly worse specs however I believe that in actual use the difference would be imperceptible.
But it's all about money,and saving a few pennies per quart adds up really fast when multiplied by millions of quarts.


The SN version is also less shear prone, so that's actually an improvement, if you consider its potential to shear in certain applications a detriment.


That's the only improvement though. The pour point got worse compared to its predecessor and a few other things got worse,however it isn't much different and likely imperceptible in actual use but its was changed for a cheaper version.
It's still among the best oils on earth if not the best.
I'm just saying it was cheapened

 

[OVERKILL]

VISOM is cheaper, for sure. What I'm waiting for is the GTL version

 

[Quattro Pete]

I thought VISOM was based on GTL?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I thought VISOM was based on GTL?


Nope, it is ultra-highly refined Group III. Basically "Group III+".

 

[Swissdieselfan]

Looks good, but I wonder what the difference is to their newer Turbo Diesel 0/40 is??
I know the base stock is the same from the data sheets, but I wonder if the add pack is the same. The Turbo Diesel 0/40 is API CF and ACEA B3/B4, so it's not for DPF's etc.
Many of the new oils seem to be using more Magnesium based detergents, which are supposed to offer more in the way of corrosion protection for oils with reduced Zinc contents (It's a secondary effect of detergents), although to confuse matters some of them have more Boron. I'm using Castrol Edge TD 5/40 at present, but will see if Mobil TD 0/40 produces a better UOA later this year.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Swissdieselfan
Looks good, but I wonder what the difference is to their newer Turbo Diesel 0/40 is??
I know the base stock is the same from the data sheets, but I wonder if the add pack is the same. The Turbo Diesel 0/40 is API CF and ACEA B3/B4, so it's not for DPF's etc.
Many of the new oils seem to be using more Magnesium based detergents, which are supposed to offer more in the way of corrosion protection for oils with reduced Zinc contents (It's a secondary effect of detergents), although to confuse matters some of them have more Boron. I'm using Castrol Edge TD 5/40 at present, but will see if Mobil TD 0/40 produces a better UOA later this year.


IIRC, they are the exact same oil.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: 147_Grain


I consider Mobil 1's 0W-40 to be their top synthetic oil and trust they won't compromise things in favor of profit over quality of product.


Well it's a full SAPS oil that's why. Mobil 1 in other grades is mid with a SA of .8. Different formulations.

 

[Swissdieselfan]

How do you know that, as the data sheets don't have enough info and I've not seen a VOA for the TD version?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Swissdieselfan
How do you know that, as the data sheets don't have enough info and I've not seen a VOA for the TD version?


Sure they do.

http://www.mobil1.co.uk/synthetic-engine-oils/turbo-diesel-0w-40.aspx?tab=specifications#tabs

Typical Properties
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 40º C 75
@ 100º C 13.5
Viscosity Index 185
MRV at -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684) 31,000
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) 3.8
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) 11.8
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981) 0.1
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 230
Density @15.6 ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85

http://www.mobil1.co.uk/synthetic-engine-oils/new-life-0w-40.aspx?tab=specifications#tabs

Typical Properties
Mobil 1 0W-40
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 40º C 75
@ 100º C 13.5
Viscosity Index 185
MRV at -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684) 31,000
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) 3.8
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) 11.8
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981) 0.1
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 230
Density @15.6 ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85


They also list the EXACT same certs and approvals. They are the same product.

 

[Swissdieselfan]

That's possible, but there is nothing to show Moly or Boron contents etc. Also why would Mobil sell one version with two different labels, unless it's some kind of EU / USA marketing thing, like a diesel label works in Germany but is not a good idea in the US or something similar?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Swissdieselfan
Also why would Mobil sell one version with two different labels, unless it's some kind of EU / USA marketing thing,

Been discussed here on BITOG a number of times. But yes, we believe it's basically just a marketing thing. Most people who own turbo diesels want to have this warm and fuzzy feeling that they're buying an oil that specifically mentions "Turbo Diesel" on the label, so Mobil was happy to make such a label.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Swissdieselfan
That's possible, but there is nothing to show Moly or Boron contents etc.

It's very unlikely for moly and boron levels to be different, yet for the oil to still have identical TBN and SA levels, at least in my opinion.

 

[Swissdieselfan]

The approvals of the two products are not the same:

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40
API CF/SM/SL/SJ
ACEA A3/B3/B4
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40 has the following builder approvals:
MB-Approval 229.3
MB-Approval 229.5
OPEL Diesel Service Fill GM-LL-B-025
BMW LONGLIFE OIL 01
VW 502 00
VW 505 00
PORSCHE A40

Mobil 1 New Life 0W-40:
API SN/SM/SL/SJ
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
Nissan GT-R
Mobil 1 New Life 0W-40 has the following builder approvals:
MB-Approval 229.3; MB-Approval 229.5
BMW LONGLIFE OIL 01
VW 502 00/ 505 00
PORSCHE A40

Rather a slim difference though!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Swissdieselfan
The approvals of the two products are not the same:

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40
API CF/SM/SL/SJ
ACEA A3/B3/B4
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40 has the following builder approvals:
MB-Approval 229.3
MB-Approval 229.5
OPEL Diesel Service Fill GM-LL-B-025
BMW LONGLIFE OIL 01
VW 502 00
VW 505 00
PORSCHE A40

Mobil 1 New Life 0W-40:
API SN/SM/SL/SJ
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
Nissan GT-R
Mobil 1 New Life 0W-40 has the following builder approvals:
MB-Approval 229.3; MB-Approval 229.5
BMW LONGLIFE OIL 01
VW 502 00/ 505 00
PORSCHE A40

Rather a slim difference though!


Slim difference? The only thing they did was pull the Nissan GT-R recommendation from the list and not list SAAB and VW 503.01 under the "according to ExxonMobil" heading, which again, is probably just marketing, since all the other specs on the entire PDS are identical. Not close, IDENTICAL.

For new life it lists under this heading:

Quote:
According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 New Life 0W-40 is of the following quality level


API CF
VW 503 01
SAAB
OPEL GM-LL-A-025; GM-LL-B-025
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - M2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - N2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - Z2

And under the Turbo Diesel 0w-40:

Quote:
According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40 is of the following quality:


API CF
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - M2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - N2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - Z2
OPEL Diesel Service Fill GM-LL-A-025
OPEL Diesel Service Fill GM-LL-B-025



Do you honestly think that they'd produce two lubricants that are SO similar that they have all the same certifications/approvals (with the exception of XOM not "recommending" the diesel one for 503.01 and SAAB) as well as identical product specifications?

 

[Swissdieselfan]

Yes it looks silly to sell two identical products with different labels from the same company, which is why I think there must be a slight difference in the add pack. I might try the Mobil TD 0/40 next, so once I get the UOA result we might know.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Swissdieselfan
Yes it looks silly to sell two identical products with different labels from the same company, which is why I think there must be a slight difference in the add pack.

You'd be surprised. In this case, XOM at least has two different target markets. Besides, I bet our generic M1 is the same as the American stuff, yet labelled differently due to language laws.

Yes, I'm being silly.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Swissdieselfan
Yes it looks silly to sell two identical products with different labels from the same company, which is why I think there must be a slight difference in the add pack. I might try the Mobil TD 0/40 next, so once I get the UOA result we might know.


I doubt it. I'm betting it is the same product, but marketed at two distinct groups as Garak has pointed out. The "diesel guys" want an oil that says it is a "diesel" oil, even if has a pile of gas certs. The "gas guys" want a "gas" oil, even if it has a pile of diesel certs. Ergo, they bottle the same product twice, using different labels, and they can cover both groups. They get more sales, it costs them far less for two different labels than it would for two nary identical blended products and nobody except those of us obsessive enough to compare PDS's notices it.

 

[buster]

I was told it's the same product worldwide.

 

[Swissdieselfan]

You might be right, but we will have to find out because New Life 0/40 is 1 Euro cheaper per liter than Turbo Diesel 0/40 on German Fleabay. I was thinking of ordering 6 liters of the TD oil, BUT now I must get an answer before I waste 6 whole Euros! That's nearly 2 liters of German beer or a good bottle of wine wasted if I get it wrong!