Shell V Power vs. fuel injector cleaners

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You'd spend an extra $100 a year on Vpower premium instead of $36 on techron if you get 30mpg and drive 12000 a year More if either mpg is lower or annual mileage is higher.

I buy regular Chevron with techron but I use techron since the techron levels in regular are low. I still come out ahead of using VPower or Chevron Premium with more Techron.
 
I'll toss something else into the equation. My exhaust has a distinctive odor when I add Techron. I get the same odor running Shell regular. I don't get the same odor with any other brand of fuel. I get it when I use Shell premium too, but I don't use it as often.
 
quote:

I'll toss something else into the equation. My exhaust has a distinctive odor when I add Techron. I get the same odor running Shell regular. I don't get the same odor with any other brand of fuel. I get it when I use Shell premium too, but I don't use it as often.

lol don't inhale... any way to run fuel system cleaners straight through the rail, without going to a shop?
 
vairox: That is possible I believe, I think everything you need can be bought as a kit, I have seen it done on a some mechanics show on tv a few years back. It didn't unclog the problem injector on the car it was used on.
One thing you can do is put the cleaner in when you only have an 1/8th of a tank or so, then run it till near empty, but I have no idea if it will hurt anything that way. I have never seen it say so on the labelings.
 
if thats the case it doesnt sound viable then... yeah i reckon (slingblade voice) you can run it down to near empty, i just use a fat dose of mmo anyhow... 16oz in an 12 gallon tank
 
Thanks, Iain. Here's a possible conundrum, though. Although it isn't as prevalent in car engines, motorcycle engines are very susceptible to deposits in the combustion chamber. But, Premium fuels tend to leave more deposits! So, these premium fuels may REQUIRE higher detergent action to keep the deposits down...OR, it is these detergent agents that, while they may clean the fuel rail and injectors, tend to leave deposits in the combustion chamber.

It's for the combustion chamber reasons that I've set my motorcycle up to be able to run regular fuel, instead of the recommended Premium. It only takes about 500 miles to see the difference in deposit formations on my motorcycle spark plug tips. Regular, run a bit richer to prevent pinging, leaves fewer deposits on my spark plugs than premium. Hmmm...
 
Why would Premium fuels leave more deposits? Where does this info. come from??
 
Titan wrote:
quote:

Thanks, Iain. Here's a possible conundrum, though. Although it isn't as prevalent in car engines, motorcycle engines are very susceptible to deposits in the combustion chamber. But, Premium fuels tend to leave more deposits! So, these premium fuels may REQUIRE higher detergent action to keep the deposits down...OR, it is these detergent agents that, while they may clean the fuel rail and injectors, tend to leave deposits in the combustion chamber.

...and Dr. T responded with:
quote:

Why would Premium fuels leave more deposits? Where does this info. come from??

Titan, please elaborate. Enquiring minds want to know!!
 
Iaian and Dr. T-

Premium fuel may exacerbate combustion chamber deposits because premium fuel has a different BTU rating than regular gas (lower BTUs than regular gas, actually). So, unless your engine has timing that's advanced enough or enough compression to make sure combustion is complete at TDC, using premium fuel MAY, and I stress MAY, lead to higher rates of deposit formation from the deposition of soot.

There's an old addage, too, that says that the higher octane content of premium leads to slower flame propagation, which would add soot as well, but that just goes along with premium's lower BTU rating. I don't know if I totally buy the old addage, because if it burned too slow we'd see a lot more burnt exhaust valves, but oh well-

You have to remember, though, that there's a multitude of factors that interplay in an engine when deposits develop. Oil control, water jacket temperature, head quench area design, total engine timing, ambient air temp and humidity, EFI fuel mix settings or carb jetting, spark strength and plug indexing, idle mixtures-all these things can effect how deposits form on pistons and in cylinders. I think that trying to find the cause of "more soot" on a piston crown is like trying to find the reason for federal government debt-lots of reasons, just pick one!

Fitz
 
By the way M2200b-

My 26 galloned truck gets 10-12 mpg, and it costs $25 (after tax) to fill that every 2 months with Techron.

Since the Dodge Hemi is spec'd for 89 gas from the factory, using premium is only an additional 12 cents a gallon.

Since I go through 25 gallons a week, that's about $125 bucks a year for V Power. Using Techron costs me about $125-150, so at the very least, I break even using the Vpower, and at least I don't have to worry about fuel quality issues!

Fitz
 
Your 12 cents a gallon premium costs $152 over the year extra and I have no idea why you would use that much techron. Even if you used 2 bottles in 24 gal 4 time a year that's $51 after tax a year. In your truck I would use one 18 oz bottle and 18 gal of fuel twice a year.

Using only Shell just means you use one cleaner rather than using different oil company cleaners
and only get the benefit of what shell's cleaner can do.

Techron 12 oz is $6 at WM.
 
Fitz gave as good an explanation as I've heard. I heard that the substances put into premium to make it less volatile (that is why it takes longer for it to burn compared to regular octane) are partly the culprits. I really don't know the reasons. I do know it is easy to see changes in motorcycle exhaust pipe outlets and spark plug tips.
 
quote:

At issue here is despite Ford rating my engine for 87 octane use, it's compression ratio is over 10:1. It runs much better on premium fuel than lower octane fuel.

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but I've been wondering if the fuel recommendations in many owners manuals are made by marketing people rather than engineers.

Check this link:

2003 Accord V6 Review

About half way down the page, the reviewer of this '03 Accord refers to Honda engineer Yasuaki Asaki's info on the V6 fuel requirements:

"The Accord V-6 ratings assume regular-grade fuel, and Honda will market it as a regular-fuel engine. But — pssst — it's good for another 10 hp and 10-plus lbs.-ft. on premium, acknowledges V-6 engineer Asaki."
 
Use the correct octane for your motor. I prefer top tier gas and a gas traetment every 3000 miles. However I always use at least two different brands of fuel just so I am getting different additives for cleaning. Who knows what deposits one brand of gas may cause and another may clean?
 
quote:

Premium fuel may exacerbate combustion chamber deposits because premium fuel has a different BTU rating than regular gas (lower BTUs than regular gas, actually). So, unless your engine has timing that's advanced enough or enough compression to make sure combustion is complete at TDC, using premium fuel MAY, and I stress MAY, lead to higher rates of deposit formation from the deposition of soot.

There's an old addage, too, that says that the higher octane content of premium leads to slower flame propagation, which would add soot as well, but that just goes along with premium's lower BTU rating. I don't know if I totally buy the old addage, because if it burned too slow we'd see a lot more burnt exhaust valves, but oh well-

You have to remember, though, that there's a multitude of factors that interplay in an engine when deposits develop. Oil control, water jacket temperature, head quench area design, total engine timing, ambient air temp and humidity, EFI fuel mix settings or carb jetting, spark strength and plug indexing, idle mixtures-all these things can effect how deposits form on pistons and in cylinders. I think that trying to find the cause of "more soot" on a piston crown is like trying to find the reason for federal government debt-lots of reasons, just pick one!

Titan and Fitz -

Thanks for the information. I wasn't aware of a potential downside to use of premium fuels in non-premium fuel rated engines.

At issue here is despite Ford rating my engine for 87 octane use, it's compression ratio is over 10:1. It runs much better on premium fuel than lower octane fuel.

Since the problem area that initiated this use has been fully resolved, I believe I will reduce usage of V-Power for now and try Shell 89 octane fuel so as to avoid potential downside that long-term, continuous use of premium fuels may poise.

[ February 18, 2006, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: Iain ]
 
Posted by Iain

quote:

At issue here is despite Ford rating my engine for 87 octane use, it's compression ratio is over 10:1. It runs much better on premium fuel than lower octane fuel.

That's a good point. I am surpised that an engine with tht high a compression ratio would specify 87. Perhaps it is a markleting issue (as with the Honda reference). To me this is one of the weaknesses of just relying on manufacturers' recommendations.

Generally I would expect to have to use a higher octane gas (91 AKI) in a high compression or gforced induction engine. Otherwise an 87 octane (with possible addition of something like FP60 every tank or Techron or Regane every 6 months).

That's what I do with my cars. Porsche Turbo gets 91 AKI or better with FP60 every tank and techron or Regane every 6 months. Mazda Mx-3 V6 gets 87 AKI with FP60 every tank and Techron or Regane every 6 months.
 
Remember that published compression ratios are merely the ratio of the cylinder volume on full downstroke to the cylinder volume on full upstroke.

How much combustion chamber pressure is being developed in actual operation is affected by many other factors, including combustion chamber design and how the engine breathes (valve timing, among other factors).
 
I use mostly Chevron Supreme 93 in my 10.5 or 11/1 compression ratio BMW 525i 2.5 liter M50 engine. Specs for the car requires 89 octane min because it has knock sensors. Because of knock sensors it will take advantage of higher octane.

It now requires 91 octane min because of an ecu modification to provide bit more HP and torque.

I normally use FP60. Waiting for the new FP 3000 before I reorder. until then I use Techron concentrate
 
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