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#2995318 - 05/07/13 08:45 AM Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30412
Loc: NJ
Is anyone surprised that Redline barely passed this test?

Quote:
This test method predicts the high
temperature deposit‐forming tendencies of
an engine oil using the thermo‐oxidation
engine oil simulation test (TEOST). This
method can be used to screen oil samples or
as a quality assurance tool.


Quote:
Motor oils can form deposits when exposed to increased heat, reducing efficiency and contributing to poor
overall performance. According to the ASTM, the TEOST test method “is designed to predict the high temperature
deposit forming tendencies of an engine oil. This test method can be used to screen oil samples or as a
quality assurance tool.”1 Given the number of vehicles now equipped with direct fuel injection, turbochargers
and other performance-enhancing technologies that increase heat, deposit control has taken on increased
importance. To meet the API SN Resource Conserving and ILSAC GF-5 motor oil specifications, a 5W-30
motor oil must limit total deposit formation to 30 mg or less.


http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/gastests/pdfs/ilsacGF5-14.pdf

Knowng Redline barely passed, would you still consider it in a turbo or DI engine?
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#2995324 - 05/07/13 08:48 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster]
Tempest Offline


Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 10611
Loc: Las Vegas NV
Turbo, yes. DI...maybe not.
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#2995329 - 05/07/13 08:58 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30412
Loc: NJ
I wouldn't use it in either honestly. I don't see any advantage to RL anymore. Maximum shear stability is one great quality of RL.
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#2995344 - 05/07/13 09:31 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster]
zloveraz Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 860
Loc: Frisco, TX
Hmm either it passes or fails, in this case it passed.
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#2995349 - 05/07/13 09:38 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30412
Loc: NJ
Not really. 30mg is the max allowed. Lower the better. The old Mobil 1 SM was around the 5mg range. Now it's in the low 20's. Redline barely passed. Not a good sign IMO.
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#2995387 - 05/07/13 10:35 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13466
Loc: Chicago, IL
Didn't that one Russian BMW enthusiast site's test show similar results?
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#2995411 - 05/07/13 11:03 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: dparm]
MBS500 Offline


Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 665
Loc: Crestwood,KY
Originally Posted By: dparm
Didn't that one Russian BMW enthusiast site's test show similar results?

do you have a link?
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#2995412 - 05/07/13 11:05 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30412
Loc: NJ
That wasn't a TEOST test.
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#2995424 - 05/07/13 11:19 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 11970
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
Most likely failed due to High MolyDTC + EP (or equivalent) %. I would Place Bets that 0w20 SM Toyota OE Oil and Mazdda Idemitsu Fails too - though moot as ILSAC Ow20 are exempt from 1 of the 2 thin film deposit tests. Realise this is NOT an in situ test.
Years ago, Noticed that the sliding pistons and cams of our mid 2000s toyotas loved the old Formula Shell oil with tons O moly but the car stuck rings constantly. Trade off.
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2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter

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#2995425 - 05/07/13 11:20 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: dparm]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10140
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dparm
Didn't that one Russian BMW enthusiast site's test show similar results?

Yes it did but our Tom_NJ pooh_poohed there test methodology.

But I agree with Tempest, this test is only a potential concern in DI and maybe turbo applications.
It was also only a test of one oil; RL 5W-30. I'd be interested in a test of their more modern 0W oils such as their 0W-40.

RL has lots of proven advantages in high temp' racing type applications. I remember it was one oil that was recommended in racing Porsches that didn't cause high rpm detonation when the oil consumption was high.

Back in the day there was always a trade-off between maximum lubricating protection and cleanliness. Castor bean oil provided unsurpassed protection in high temp' conditions at the expense of hard carbon deposits. For many reasons it was a totally impractical oil to use for every day street use.

RL is a race oil formulator that makes non API approved street oils for high performance applications. It has always been the case that their oils are not ideal for typical every day street use applications.

If it wasn't for the high cost, I'd run RL or a RL blend in all my cars.
_________________________
-'74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50
-'86 Porsche 928S, M1 0W-40
-'96 BMW 328i, 50/50 TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40
-'94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20
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#2995430 - 05/07/13 11:26 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30412
Loc: NJ
TEOST 33C (ASTM 6335) Bench Test
The Thermo-Oxidation Engine Oil Simulation Test (TEOST®) 33C was originally developed for and made part of GF-2 to evaluate Turbocharger deposit formation. This test was not included in GF-3 or GF-4 but this test, TEOST 33C has been included in the draft specification proposed for GF-5. The GF-2 Performance limit was 60 mg maximum and the GF-5 proposal weighs in at 25 mg maximum. This test is meant to evaluate the high temperature deposit forming tendencies of crankcase oil.
This test simulates the cyclic temperatures encountered by lubricating oil in a turbocharged gasoline fueled engine. About 100 ml of test oil is used in a 12 cycle/2 hour test. The test piece is a hollow heated rod (TEOST® Depositor Rod) that will accumulate deposits over the 2 hour test period. The test oil flows over the rod ant about 0.5g/minute while the test piece is cycled 12 times over a temperature range of 200°C to 480°C. The increase in the weight of the rod is the performance parameter measured for this procedure. The greater the weight gain, the poorer the performance.

TEOST 33C Test Conditions


Equipment
SAVANT TEOST

Test Length, hours
2

Number of Cycles
12

Cycle Duration, minutes
9.5

Depositor Rod Temperature, °C
200 to 480

Depositor Oil Flow, g/minute
0.45

Oil Sample volume, ml
100

Catalyst
Ferric Napthenate


The TEOST 33C and TEOST MHT-4 tests are designed to measure high temperature deposit forming tendencies of lubricating oils but the procedures are quite different. The TEOST 33C version cycles between 200°C and 480°C for two hours and is primarily designed to protect turbochargers. The MHT-4 is run at a constant temperature of 285°C for 24 hours and is to evaluate piston deposits.
Together the test results from both versions paint a picture of the candidate oil's high temperature deposit forming tendency.
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#2995433 - 05/07/13 11:31 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30412
Loc: NJ
The TEOST results provided by Amsoil are pretty revealing. I would not use Redline in a turbo application.

With that said, RL has little to offer for 99% of daily drivers.

*The Honda HTO-06 doesn't discriminate against high Moly oils. fyi.
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#2995437 - 05/07/13 11:34 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30412
Loc: NJ
Quote:
But I agree with Tempest, this test is only a potential concern in DI and maybe turbo applications.
It was also only a test of one oil; RL 5W-30. I'd be interested in a test of their more modern 0W oils such as their 0W-40.


It IS for turbos. And a 0w grade would have worse performance due to the VM's used. This is a big blow for Redline IMO.
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#2995439 - 05/07/13 11:36 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41789
Loc: New Jersey
Ive not been impresed by redline lubes for many years now. MolaKule's diff lube quieted my BMW LSD moreso than any RL lube ever did, Amsoil MTF has retained shift character better, longer than redline MTL ever did, and while Ive never used redline lube oils, the UOA results we have seen havent been that stellar.

IMO, the target market for this product is just the people who (foolishly) demand "no 'fake' synthetic Group III basestocks".

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#2995441 - 05/07/13 11:36 AM Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30412
Loc: NJ
^+1 I agree. Too many excuses and opinions from people that just don't know what they are talking about IMO.
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