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Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 #2995318
05/07/13 07:45 AM
05/07/13 07:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
buster Offline OP
buster  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
Is anyone surprised that Redline barely passed this test?

Quote:
This test method predicts the high
temperature deposit‐forming tendencies of
an engine oil using the thermo‐oxidation
engine oil simulation test (TEOST). This
method can be used to screen oil samples or
as a quality assurance tool.


Quote:
Motor oils can form deposits when exposed to increased heat, reducing efficiency and contributing to poor
overall performance. According to the ASTM, the TEOST test method “is designed to predict the high temperature
deposit forming tendencies of an engine oil. This test method can be used to screen oil samples or as a
quality assurance tool.”1 Given the number of vehicles now equipped with direct fuel injection, turbochargers
and other performance-enhancing technologies that increase heat, deposit control has taken on increased
importance. To meet the API SN Resource Conserving and ILSAC GF-5 motor oil specifications, a 5W-30
motor oil must limit total deposit formation to 30 mg or less.


http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/gastests/pdfs/ilsacGF5-14.pdf

Knowng Redline barely passed, would you still consider it in a turbo or DI engine?

Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster] #2995324
05/07/13 07:48 AM
05/07/13 07:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,611
Las Vegas NV
Tempest Offline
Tempest  Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,611
Las Vegas NV
Turbo, yes. DI...maybe not.


“Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.” --- Henry Rosovsky
Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster] #2995329
05/07/13 07:58 AM
05/07/13 07:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
buster Offline OP
buster  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
I wouldn't use it in either honestly. I don't see any advantage to RL anymore. Maximum shear stability is one great quality of RL.

Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster] #2995344
05/07/13 08:31 AM
05/07/13 08:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 860
Frisco, TX
zloveraz Offline
zloveraz  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 860
Frisco, TX
Hmm either it passes or fails, in this case it passed.


11 G37S, QSUD, microGreen MG101-7
14 BMW F800GS Adventure
Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster] #2995349
05/07/13 08:38 AM
05/07/13 08:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
buster Offline OP
buster  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
Not really. 30mg is the max allowed. Lower the better. The old Mobil 1 SM was around the 5mg range. Now it's in the low 20's. Redline barely passed. Not a good sign IMO.

Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster] #2995387
05/07/13 09:35 AM
05/07/13 09:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,537
Chicago, IL
dparm Offline
dparm  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,537
Chicago, IL
Didn't that one Russian BMW enthusiast site's test show similar results?


2017 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport
Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: dparm] #2995411
05/07/13 10:03 AM
05/07/13 10:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 665
Crestwood,KY
MBS500 Offline
MBS500  Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 665
Crestwood,KY
Originally Posted By: dparm
Didn't that one Russian BMW enthusiast site's test show similar results?

do you have a link?


13 Fiat 500Turbo:9k,M1 0w40/Mopar filter+Ceratec
06 BMW 550i:81k,Mag1 5w40/Champ filter+MoS2
06 Frontier:110k,Oil lefovers mix/P1
Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster] #2995412
05/07/13 10:05 AM
05/07/13 10:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
buster Offline OP
buster  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
That wasn't a TEOST test.

Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster] #2995424
05/07/13 10:19 AM
05/07/13 10:19 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
Most likely failed due to High MolyDTC + EP (or equivalent) %. I would Place Bets that 0w20 SM Toyota OE Oil and Mazdda Idemitsu Fails too - though moot as ILSAC Ow20 are exempt from 1 of the 2 thin film deposit tests. Realise this is NOT an in situ test.
Years ago, Noticed that the sliding pistons and cams of our mid 2000s toyotas loved the old Formula Shell oil with tons O moly but the car stuck rings constantly. Trade off.


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#10 47272mi-QSUD10W30+5w20 Toughguard Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: dparm] #2995425
05/07/13 10:20 AM
05/07/13 10:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,140
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
CATERHAM Offline
CATERHAM  Offline
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,140
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dparm
Didn't that one Russian BMW enthusiast site's test show similar results?

Yes it did but our Tom_NJ pooh_poohed there test methodology.

But I agree with Tempest, this test is only a potential concern in DI and maybe turbo applications.
It was also only a test of one oil; RL 5W-30. I'd be interested in a test of their more modern 0W oils such as their 0W-40.

RL has lots of proven advantages in high temp' racing type applications. I remember it was one oil that was recommended in racing Porsches that didn't cause high rpm detonation when the oil consumption was high.

Back in the day there was always a trade-off between maximum lubricating protection and cleanliness. Castor bean oil provided unsurpassed protection in high temp' conditions at the expense of hard carbon deposits. For many reasons it was a totally impractical oil to use for every day street use.

RL is a race oil formulator that makes non API approved street oils for high performance applications. It has always been the case that their oils are not ideal for typical every day street use applications.

If it wasn't for the high cost, I'd run RL or a RL blend in all my cars.


-'74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50 & VSOT
-'96 BMW 328i, 50/50 TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40
-'94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20
-'18 Tesla Model 3 - FF diff' oil
Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster] #2995430
05/07/13 10:26 AM
05/07/13 10:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
buster Offline OP
buster  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
TEOST 33C (ASTM 6335) Bench Test
The Thermo-Oxidation Engine Oil Simulation Test (TEOST®) 33C was originally developed for and made part of GF-2 to evaluate Turbocharger deposit formation. This test was not included in GF-3 or GF-4 but this test, TEOST 33C has been included in the draft specification proposed for GF-5. The GF-2 Performance limit was 60 mg maximum and the GF-5 proposal weighs in at 25 mg maximum. This test is meant to evaluate the high temperature deposit forming tendencies of crankcase oil.
This test simulates the cyclic temperatures encountered by lubricating oil in a turbocharged gasoline fueled engine. About 100 ml of test oil is used in a 12 cycle/2 hour test. The test piece is a hollow heated rod (TEOST® Depositor Rod) that will accumulate deposits over the 2 hour test period. The test oil flows over the rod ant about 0.5g/minute while the test piece is cycled 12 times over a temperature range of 200°C to 480°C. The increase in the weight of the rod is the performance parameter measured for this procedure. The greater the weight gain, the poorer the performance.

TEOST 33C Test Conditions


Equipment
SAVANT TEOST

Test Length, hours
2

Number of Cycles
12

Cycle Duration, minutes
9.5

Depositor Rod Temperature, °C
200 to 480

Depositor Oil Flow, g/minute
0.45

Oil Sample volume, ml
100

Catalyst
Ferric Napthenate


The TEOST 33C and TEOST MHT-4 tests are designed to measure high temperature deposit forming tendencies of lubricating oils but the procedures are quite different. The TEOST 33C version cycles between 200°C and 480°C for two hours and is primarily designed to protect turbochargers. The MHT-4 is run at a constant temperature of 285°C for 24 hours and is to evaluate piston deposits.
Together the test results from both versions paint a picture of the candidate oil's high temperature deposit forming tendency.

Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster] #2995433
05/07/13 10:31 AM
05/07/13 10:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
buster Offline OP
buster  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
The TEOST results provided by Amsoil are pretty revealing. I would not use Redline in a turbo application.

With that said, RL has little to offer for 99% of daily drivers.

*The Honda HTO-06 doesn't discriminate against high Moly oils. fyi.

Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster] #2995437
05/07/13 10:34 AM
05/07/13 10:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
buster Offline OP
buster  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
Quote:
But I agree with Tempest, this test is only a potential concern in DI and maybe turbo applications.
It was also only a test of one oil; RL 5W-30. I'd be interested in a test of their more modern 0W oils such as their 0W-40.


It IS for turbos. And a 0w grade would have worse performance due to the VM's used. This is a big blow for Redline IMO.

Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster] #2995439
05/07/13 10:36 AM
05/07/13 10:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,299
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,299
New Jersey
Ive not been impresed by redline lubes for many years now. MolaKule's diff lube quieted my BMW LSD moreso than any RL lube ever did, Amsoil MTF has retained shift character better, longer than redline MTL ever did, and while Ive never used redline lube oils, the UOA results we have seen havent been that stellar.

IMO, the target market for this product is just the people who (foolishly) demand "no 'fake' synthetic Group III basestocks".

Re: Redline Oil & TEOST ASTM D 6335 [Re: buster] #2995441
05/07/13 10:36 AM
05/07/13 10:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
buster Offline OP
buster  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,929
NJ
^+1 I agree. Too many excuses and opinions from people that just don't know what they are talking about IMO.

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