VSOT

[toocrazy2yoo]

Question for youse' guys..

I put a 15 oz. bottle of VSOT into my 1.6 with 4 quarts of M-1 0-40. I need the 0W in the cold, it quiets the startup. This is with a PureOne 14459 teeny filter. Immediately after the addition of the VSOT, I started getting that cold-start tap. The oil is thicker on the end of the dipstick, especially when cold, but I do notice that the oil clings to the cam lobes, looking through the oil-filler when the engine is idling.

A BITOG member sold me a half dozen 24458 Puro Premium Plus filters (these are oversize 14459). I removed the little PureOne filter, installed one of the 24458 oversize, put back one quart of oil (Ok, ok, standard dino Exxon SuperFlow 5W-30), and lo and behold, no more cold-start tap.

Question is, was the little PureOne responsible for the tap after the addition of the VSOT? Or did the larger filter help matters? Or is it simply the fact that I've reduced the ratio of VSOT-to-oil allowing a better cold-start flow?

I have to admit, though, seat of the pants observation, the engine runs much more smoothly now, and I could swear the throttle response has improved greatly. Once this thing comes off the cold fast-idle, I can barely hear it turning over at idle anymore. Amazing. I wonder if a UOA would shed light on my instincts regarding the improvements.

 

[TallPaul]

I wonder if the tapping was from the VSOT residue in the valve cover before it mixed with the oil. Also I would guess you are running about a borderline 50 weight or very thick 40 with the VSOT. Is it possible the anti-drainback went bad at the same time you added the VSOT (you may be able to check the filter by inverting it with your thumb over the center hole and see if oil comes out). I can't imagine the extra thickness being hindered in the Pure One media to the extent it would make valve tapping.

 

[m2200b]

VSOT . You changed the 0-40 to closer to 20w-50.
any addition of 0w-or 5w is just moving the mix back closer to what you had before the vsot by dilution. You don't have 0w anymore. You can probably get by with a DC winter with thicker oil but I'd use less VSOT in the winter and I'd use less that Valvoline recommended all the time as its just overkill.

You can get the 24458 at Sears Auto.

 

[Islandvic]

You should add 1oz VSOT for every 1qt of oil.

If it consumes oil, maybe 1oz every 1000 afterward.

How long did you let the brew stay in the engine.

Did you drive it and let the engine and oil come to full operating temp?

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Oh yeah! The engine was hot for almost a half-hour of freeway driving, and while it was still idling, I poured it in. Then I took it out for maybe another twenty minutes or so, mostly over 45-50 MPH. It mixed in real well, I'm sure. When all was said and done, I was maybe a 1/4 over full on the dippy. The brew is still in the engine, and like I said, warmed up, I can't even feel the thing running anymore. Very smooth.

The only objection I had with it was several taps from the valves in the morning. Only maybe for just 2 seconds, and I don't get that with just the Mobil 1 after a fresh change. That tapping is usually my signal to change the oil, it starts around 3000 miles after the last change, but again, only at start-up. After that initial second or two of tap-tap, it's quiet. Raspy, if you know what I mean, but quiet.

Weird thing now is, the rasp is gone, and it's just smooth. And, the throttle response is much better. The thing just leaps up the tach now, where as before, it built kinda gradually. I don't have any empirical evidence, these are just seat of the pants observations by someone that knows this car inside and out.

Vic, you think the "brew" as you put it hurt anything? Like I said, I threw out the PureOne mini and went to an oversize 24458 Purolator, and put back a quart, albeit dino Exxon SuperFlow 5w-30. I did a cold start this morning, it was about 15 here then, and not the slightest knock, it just started with a bump of the starter, and idled smoooooth from the start.

Just for the record, I put the PureOne threaded-side down in the drain pan overnight and took the Dremel to it this afternoon and opened it up, and it was full of oil, so the ADBV was good. The stuff inside was very slippery. A strange greenish-brown hue to it, but that had to be the VSOT. The stick-wipe shows nice and clean. And the weave wasn't clogged in the least, but it only had about 1200 miles or so on it.

I think I'm going to run this oil on out to 5000 miles and do a UOA on it, but will the result be corrupted by the VSOT? I'm sure it's still quite rich, in spite of the missing quart.

Thanks for the thoughts, guys!

 

[Islandvic]

What type of engine/vehicle?

Brew will not hurt anything. The engine is probably better protected than most of your neighbor's vehicles.

Why do a UOA?

Just change a 5-6k, and skip the VSOT next time unless added at smaller ratios.

 

[TallPaul]

Or next time you could run an 0w30 with the VSOT added. Then you would be close to a 40 weight instead of nearly a 50 weight.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

It's a 92 Hyundai with a 1.6 4cyl., has around 155 or 160 on the engine, which was installed new-rebuilt by the first owner in summer of 97. I bought it right after the new engine went in, It's been on 10w-40 summer, 0w-40 winter from the start. OCIs of about 3-3.5 thousand miles.

Never did additives in the oil till the VSOT a couple weeks ago. A UOA at 5k won't be constructive? Thought it might be worthwhile to see how the thing is holding up.

Dang, and I just ordered the Fumoto valve, too!

 

[Gary Allan]

Repeat your add next OCI and see if the same thing occurs. I speculated that the VSOT may saturate the oil filter right away. I had cause later to rethink this and sorta concluded that it didn't. You have me "re"-rethinking this. This notion was furthered by TallPaul's inability to see through his filter media in his last OCI.

It would be a shame. This is a potent product here. It's about the cheapest way to get that much vitamin therapy for your engine. Buying RL is just too darn expensive.

I'll know for sure when I get my replacement pressure transducer. I'll just do an oil and filter change ...warm the oil to over 180F ..and dibble the stuff in. If I get high pressure differentials ...the stuff plugs the filter

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Mix it in with your regular oil. I will get an empty jug & pour 7.5 oz of VSOT into it. Then I wil grab a full quart of oil and pour half of it into the 7.5 oz VSOT that I have sitting in that empty oil jug. I then put the cap back on & shake well. It pours into the crankcase much easier this way.

 

[TallPaul]

Excellent idea Triple_Se7en.

Toocrazy2you: I would think you could go year round with a good 5w40. (I think Mobil Truck and SUV 5w40 even may have the higher additive levels built in.) As for additives, well if you want zddp, Big Lots is selling CD-2 High Performance Oil Boost (pink 16 oz bottle) for $1.99 and it has about 4500 ppm zddp. It is not thick like VSOT. Although VSOT has more than just zddp.

As for my filter, I don't know what the deal was but that was pretty clogged-looking for 3400 miles. I don't recall that happeneing every time I used VSOT or MLEP (Max Life Engine Protector--also as thick). But maybe it is an occasional thing, depending on how mixed it gets before it is delivered to the filter.

 

[surfstar]

I'm with triple - I mix the oil and VSOT in a 5 qt jug and shake it up and add the entire sump capacity at the same time and it pours just like normal oil. I also tried the Maxlife Engine Protector and Stop Leak a couple times (actually still have some I think) b/c it was free after rebate and couldn't pass it up.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Well, this stuff didn't just dump into the engine, it ran very slowly. No kidding, I bet it was five minutes draining into the oil-hole, while the engine was idling, and well warmed up. Then I drove it for a half hour or so. Question I have NOW is (you doods inspire thought), a filter, when it's clogged, is that something that happens on a microscopic level, or if the filter collected the VSPT, would the pleats be visibly bridged with, in this case, VSOT? The pleats on the filter are well defined, kinda dirty, but not terribly, and it didn't have that stink to it that old filters have (it was only in service for around 1000 miles).

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

(you doods inspire thought)

---

That's the danger of all this (visualize a waving of the arm jesture covering a panaramic vista).

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Danger?

There's DANGER?

Oh, No!

 

[blmqzjc]

I'm thinking the cold tap might be the result of the Pure One. As you probably know, Hyundai has a TSB out about using non-OEM filters - some are known to cause the problem you experience. Just for grins, you may want to try your "brew" next time with an OEM filter, to see if the noise is still there or goes away.

BTW, I use a Premium Plus and have no issues with cold start noise, but understand there is a difference in Premium Plus and Pure One filtration. Those Premium Plus are on sale at Pep Boys right now for .99 after rebate, and they are a mighty fine filter IMO.

BTW, my ride is a 2005 Elantra. I knew from the first couple of posts in this thread you had to be talking about a Hyundai - and that was disclosed later on down the thread. I recognize those filter numbers!

 

[blmqzjc]

toocrazy,

Have you ever used the OEM filter? If so, any difference? Since yours is a 92, that's way before the TSB I mentioned but just wondering anyway.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Oh, man, I used Frams the whole way with this thing until I ran into you guys. 150,000 miles with Mobil 1 and Fram 3950s. When the Purolators went 2 for 1 when KMART closed, or Trac-Auto (a local chain that died awhile back Advanced Auto took over their store locations and leases) I'd stock up, but then Fram came out with the grippy filters and I thought that was neat. But with Mobil 1 and OCI's of 3000 miles, even a Fram could hang with that interval.

Then I found this place. Challenged a lot of my assumptions you folks did, so I'm experimenting.

Today's oil change is 5W-30 Havoline (cause folks say I don't need M-1 with 3000 mile OCI), and I put in 4.5 oz. of VSOT, and an OEM Hyundai filter(because Frams suck, not that I knew that before you folks told me). My first OEM filter.
Had no idea it matters. Filter's a filter, right? Who could imagine cardboard in a dammed oil filter?

It'll be upper teens tomorrow morning. When I get outta my gal's house at 5:30 or so tomorrow morning, I'll be listening for that tell-tale tap that sends me back to Mobil 1. For some reason, M-1 in the sump means no cold start valve taps.

For the record, BLM, prior to this Havoline/VSOT change, no matter what filter I used from the aftermarket, cold start taps were morning routine with dino, never with M-1. We'll see if an OEM filter with Dino allows them to happen tomorrow, hehe.. My quirky Hyundai. Eeesh.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Hey BLM..

I bought a few over-size Prem-Plus filters in L14458 trim, but haven't gotten around to using them yet. I took a 2500 mile road trip two weeks ago, and then drained out the Mobil 1 0W-40 with all the VSOT in it, refilled with cheapo ST 5W-30 and an ST3950 filter to hopefully flush some of that stuff out. It was my bad adding 15 oz of VSOT to a four quart capacity, but the car, once it was warmed up, was very smooth running. 80 MPH all day long for 2500 miles. I was just afraid of the oil, it thickened up so much, I started getting that cold start tap when I got back up to No. Va. from Florida. After the change to the ST3950/ST 5W-30, I have the cold start tap, also. Lasts for about 5 or ten seconds, and sometimes I have to turn off and restart the car after it runs for a few seconds to make it stop. Once the car is warmed up, I don't have the trouble all day. Something is losing oil over the course of the night when the car is just sitting.

A user here PM'd me, told me if I go to a Premium Plus oversize 14458 filter, 5W-30 Havoline, and 4 oz. of Valvoline (1 oz/quart), I'll lose the cold start tap, have all the Moly and ZDDP I need, and be good for a 5000 mile OCI to boot. That sound ok to you guys? Best part would be, no more $5.50 a QT synthetic. I like the Havoline for $1.50 a whole lot better than $5.50 for the M-1. In any case, NO MORE FRAMS!


Thanks for the responses, all!

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Oh, and BLM?

Mine's a 92 Elantra with a Mitsu 1.6 4 cylinder DOHC. We use the same filter, but I imagine your 2005 is a far more advanced engine, I wonder if the oiling is better on yours by a wide margin?

My ex's 92 Elantra had the same problem, to get rid of the cold tap, I had to run M-1 in it. Hence my experimenting with mine. My Elantra is ok, it's no beater, but if the experimenting with different oils, and using it as a test bed yields a few new trix, well, the KIA Rio of my dreams (complete with Mitsubishi 1.6 DOHC, 5-speed and and manual roll-up windows) is just a trip to the dealer away!