I use the Castrol Transmax IMV in both of our Hondas. I've used MaxLife in both and prefer the Castrol in both applications.
HONDA Z1 ATF or VALVOLINE MAX LIFE DEX/MERC
- Thread starter 5thgenaccord97
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Lol where is your autozone located ? I have never seen it that cheap
The Z1 has an odd formulation with a lot of Zinc, a lot of Magnesium and a massive amount of Sulphur. It starts out at a viscosity of 7.2 cSt but in my UOAs, it shears down quickly. In my UPAs it dropped to well under 6 cSt in only 18K miles (5.5 cSt in the last one). I think that shearing is why the shifting doesn't stay crisp and sharp.
MaxLife starts at a bit over 6 cSt but according to several sources, doesn't shear, or shears only minimally. The MaxLife has next to no Zinc, no Sulphur about the same amount of Boron, lots more Phosphorus, next to no Magnesium, lots of Phosphorus (the Z1 has next to none). I have seen a DW1 virgin analysis but can't lay my hands on it now. It's different than Z1.
I don't know enough to comment of the differences in chemistry but I've been following this for about 8 years. Lots of people have used MaxLife in Hondas with good results (or a least no bad ones) so I think it's probably very safe to do so. IMO, there is more than enough anecdotal evidence to show the MaxLife is a good choice for the older and problematic Hondas. It's a much better oil than the Z1 in terms of overall quality. I don't know enough to compare it to the DW1, which is itself a major upgrade from Z1.
MaxLife starts at a bit over 6 cSt but according to several sources, doesn't shear, or shears only minimally. The MaxLife has next to no Zinc, no Sulphur about the same amount of Boron, lots more Phosphorus, next to no Magnesium, lots of Phosphorus (the Z1 has next to none). I have seen a DW1 virgin analysis but can't lay my hands on it now. It's different than Z1.
I don't know enough to comment of the differences in chemistry but I've been following this for about 8 years. Lots of people have used MaxLife in Hondas with good results (or a least no bad ones) so I think it's probably very safe to do so. IMO, there is more than enough anecdotal evidence to show the MaxLife is a good choice for the older and problematic Hondas. It's a much better oil than the Z1 in terms of overall quality. I don't know enough to compare it to the DW1, which is itself a major upgrade from Z1.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I'd use Castrol Import Multi Vehicle over Maxlife for Z1, it is thicker and closer to the Z1 viscosity. I'm using it right now in my Integra and it is fine.
I agree with the using Castrol IMV because it starts out thicker than Maxlife....
PS: The 5th gen Accord didn't have A/T issues to my knowledge....the problems started in 98' with the 6th generation....
I'd use Castrol Import Multi Vehicle over Maxlife for Z1, it is thicker and closer to the Z1 viscosity. I'm using it right now in my Integra and it is fine.
I agree with the using Castrol IMV because it starts out thicker than Maxlife....
PS: The 5th gen Accord didn't have A/T issues to my knowledge....the problems started in 98' with the 6th generation....
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I'd use Castrol Import Multi Vehicle over Maxlife for Z1, it is thicker and closer to the Z1 viscosity. I'm using it right now in my Integra and it is fine.
I agree with the using Castrol IMV because it starts out thicker than Maxlife....
PS: The 5th gen Accord didn't have A/T issues to my knowledge....the problems started in 98' with the 6th generation....
The problem is that it shears like a big dog too. There are a few UOAs here that show the Castrol IMV shearing to around 5.2cSt in under 20K miles. These UOAs are some years old, so it's possible there have been improvements since. My thought is that it's better to have a fluid whose viscosity stays stable longer that one that shears quickly to a low number, i.e one that starts at 6cSt and stays there than one that starts at 7.9 and drops to 5.2 in 20K.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I'd use Castrol Import Multi Vehicle over Maxlife for Z1, it is thicker and closer to the Z1 viscosity. I'm using it right now in my Integra and it is fine.
I agree with the using Castrol IMV because it starts out thicker than Maxlife....
PS: The 5th gen Accord didn't have A/T issues to my knowledge....the problems started in 98' with the 6th generation....
The problem is that it shears like a big dog too. There are a few UOAs here that show the Castrol IMV shearing to around 5.2cSt in under 20K miles. These UOAs are some years old, so it's possible there have been improvements since. My thought is that it's better to have a fluid whose viscosity stays stable longer that one that shears quickly to a low number, i.e one that starts at 6cSt and stays there than one that starts at 7.9 and drops to 5.2 in 20K.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
MaxLife starts at a bit over 6 cSt but according to several sources, doesn't shear, or shears only minimally.
We have it on record from Valvoline that MaxLife will not shear below 5.7 cSt. So yes, that's par for other high-quality 'non-shear' fluids.
MaxLife starts at a bit over 6 cSt but according to several sources, doesn't shear, or shears only minimally.
We have it on record from Valvoline that MaxLife will not shear below 5.7 cSt. So yes, that's par for other high-quality 'non-shear' fluids.
Thank you Jim for the insight here. I am convinced that the Maxlife will do the trick. I just drained and filled it but since you cannot drain the Torque Converters on these i had to drain the supply line out with it running then top it off. It's shifting smooth not that it wasn't before but the main reason for the drain and fill is because it has been 30k since the last drain an fill when the Solenoid was replaced. My 97' is not a problematic transmission unlike the 6th generation but the fluid was brown and due for change. These Automatic Transmissions must be the bullet proof ones of the 90's for Honda Accords because mine has 254,767 k on it and the transmission shifts fine without slippage or hard shifts but 80% of the miles are from the freeway. Of course anyone who knows the car business knows that the Honda Dealership has to make its money hence why the Z1 and most likely the DW-1 breaks down quickly. I do run Castrol GTX high mileage for my regular oil though and it's even clean still after i change it @ 3000 k. I have been a Toyota guy most of my life with this being only my second Honda Accord ..I have to say there both solid vehicles and both have had there problematic years. Like with Toyota it was the 3rd generation camry and 2nd generation 4runners with engine / tranny issues.
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Originally Posted By: 5thgenaccord97
Of course anyone who knows the car business knows that the Honda Dealership has to make its money hence why the Z1 and most likely the DW-1 breaks down quickly.
Don't be so sure. DW-1 has all the markings of a current-gen, 'modern' fluid. It's definitely a better fluid than Z1. You can see the fluids of old on the upper-right on this chart. The upgrades are in the lower-left:
Of course anyone who knows the car business knows that the Honda Dealership has to make its money hence why the Z1 and most likely the DW-1 breaks down quickly.
Don't be so sure. DW-1 has all the markings of a current-gen, 'modern' fluid. It's definitely a better fluid than Z1. You can see the fluids of old on the upper-right on this chart. The upgrades are in the lower-left:
Originally Posted By: Oldasco
Maxlife Dex/Merc ATF is a great deal at my local Autozone...$13.50/gallon jug!
Seriously, that's an amazing price.
Maxlife Dex/Merc ATF is a great deal at my local Autozone...$13.50/gallon jug!
Seriously, that's an amazing price.
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Of course none of the Autozone locations near me don't have it 
Not at Walmart either.
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: Oldasco
Maxlife Dex/Merc ATF is a great deal at my local Autozone...$13.50/gallon jug!
Seriously, that's an amazing price.
Not at Walmart either.
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: Oldasco
Maxlife Dex/Merc ATF is a great deal at my local Autozone...$13.50/gallon jug!
Seriously, that's an amazing price.
Originally Posted By: rkpatt
Of course none of the Autozone locations near me don't have it
Not at Walmart either.
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: Oldasco
Maxlife Dex/Merc ATF is a great deal at my local Autozone...$13.50/gallon jug!
Seriously, that's an amazing price.
Cannot locate it at either retailer here in Tennessee. Advance auto has it for 22.49...
Of course none of the Autozone locations near me don't have it
Not at Walmart either.
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: Oldasco
Maxlife Dex/Merc ATF is a great deal at my local Autozone...$13.50/gallon jug!
Seriously, that's an amazing price.
Cannot locate it at either retailer here in Tennessee. Advance auto has it for 22.49...
Originally Posted By: mmab
Not sure where in ebay you looked at. Here is a link where you can get the DW1 for ~6, a quart.
http://www.handa-accessories.com/odymaint01.html
Don't forget to add the ~$6 /qt. shipping to the east coast.
If you're lucky you might be able to get the dealer to the ~$8.20 DW-1 suggested retail price, if you're lucky. AAP has ML for ~$23 a gallon around here. Selected Wally's ~$17 a gallon. Unavailable in this region at AZ.
Originally Posted By: bourne
Maxlife, all day, everyday in that transmission. I have enjoyed using this fluid over the OEM recommended for the last 10k miles in one of the most problematic Honda transmissions in their history. Works like a charm!
+1 Speaking of poor reputations, try an 01 Civic now with 12k+ on Maxlife ~190k mi total. #1 Carcomplaints.com.
Not sure where in ebay you looked at. Here is a link where you can get the DW1 for ~6, a quart.
http://www.handa-accessories.com/odymaint01.html
Don't forget to add the ~$6 /qt. shipping to the east coast.
Originally Posted By: bourne
Maxlife, all day, everyday in that transmission. I have enjoyed using this fluid over the OEM recommended for the last 10k miles in one of the most problematic Honda transmissions in their history. Works like a charm!
+1 Speaking of poor reputations, try an 01 Civic now with 12k+ on Maxlife ~190k mi total. #1 Carcomplaints.com.
Castrol IMV works great in hondas. I've used it on mazda,honda and mitsubishi. Never had a problem.
Originally Posted By: vtecboy
Castrol IMV works great in hondas. I've used it on mazda,honda and mitsubishi. Never had a problem.
Based on what Jim Allen says, I would not use or recommend it. I highly doubt that the DW-1 shears that bad. I'm sure it's fine to use if you don't have anything better but it belongs on the old-school side of the chart that I posted.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I'd use Castrol Import Multi Vehicle over Maxlife for Z1, it is thicker and closer to the Z1 viscosity. I'm using it right now in my Integra and it is fine.
I agree with the using Castrol IMV because it starts out thicker than Maxlife....
The problem is that it shears like a big dog too. There are a few UOAs here that show the Castrol IMV shearing to around 5.2cSt in under 20K miles. These UOAs are some years old, so it's possible there have been improvements since. My thought is that it's better to have a fluid whose viscosity stays stable longer that one that shears quickly to a low number, i.e one that starts at 6cSt and stays there than one that starts at 7.9 and drops to 5.2 in 20K.
Castrol IMV works great in hondas. I've used it on mazda,honda and mitsubishi. Never had a problem.
Based on what Jim Allen says, I would not use or recommend it. I highly doubt that the DW-1 shears that bad. I'm sure it's fine to use if you don't have anything better but it belongs on the old-school side of the chart that I posted.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I'd use Castrol Import Multi Vehicle over Maxlife for Z1, it is thicker and closer to the Z1 viscosity. I'm using it right now in my Integra and it is fine.
I agree with the using Castrol IMV because it starts out thicker than Maxlife....
The problem is that it shears like a big dog too. There are a few UOAs here that show the Castrol IMV shearing to around 5.2cSt in under 20K miles. These UOAs are some years old, so it's possible there have been improvements since. My thought is that it's better to have a fluid whose viscosity stays stable longer that one that shears quickly to a low number, i.e one that starts at 6cSt and stays there than one that starts at 7.9 and drops to 5.2 in 20K.
Well after reading this thread and several others regarding what ATF to use in a Honda, I finally changed the transmission fluid in my 01 Civic today.
Out: Not sure, I bought the car used last May with a recently installed rebuilt transmission in it. It shifted fine when I got it, and the fluid looked and smelled clean, but I added a bottle of Lubegard Red when I got it just to be safe. This softened the shifts to the point that they were completely transparent. Continued to drive like that for roughly 15,000 miles until today, and I drained 4 quarts of dark red, still unburnt fluid.
In: 3 quarts of Valvoline MaxLife Full Synthetic Multi-Vehicle (the one that says Honda on the front) and 1 quart of Mobil 1 ATF (because my logic is this will bond with the rest of the Lubegard Red and also it has such a nice high flash point. These trannies are known for heat related failure so I also added a Hayden stacked plate cooler (Similar to the B&M) and a Magnefine inline filter.
The difference was really suprising. The shifts are noticibly firmer but in a good way and in no way harsh. I can clearly feel the shift followed by the torque converter locking up, as it should be. Also, during acceleration, the car seems to continue to pull hard right up to just before the shift, whereas before it would just kinda rev and slip into the next gear unnoticed.
My favorite thing that I've noticed so far though, is that when I brake to slow down in traffic and then step on the gas to accelerate, the car instantly downshifts and just goes! Before, the transmission would freak out as if it was thinking "Oh [censored], he was slowing down, and now he wants to speed up, what do I do? Ummmmmmmmmm...... I guess I could downshift?" and then it would slowly lurch into acceleration. That by itself has made me a believer in MaxLife! It's also made me like my car a lot more. The "slush box" feels a lot less slushy and much more fun to drive!
Thanks to everyone who has shared your experiences in this thread and others! I will update this thread with my personal experiences.
Out: Not sure, I bought the car used last May with a recently installed rebuilt transmission in it. It shifted fine when I got it, and the fluid looked and smelled clean, but I added a bottle of Lubegard Red when I got it just to be safe. This softened the shifts to the point that they were completely transparent. Continued to drive like that for roughly 15,000 miles until today, and I drained 4 quarts of dark red, still unburnt fluid.
In: 3 quarts of Valvoline MaxLife Full Synthetic Multi-Vehicle (the one that says Honda on the front) and 1 quart of Mobil 1 ATF (because my logic is this will bond with the rest of the Lubegard Red and also it has such a nice high flash point. These trannies are known for heat related failure so I also added a Hayden stacked plate cooler (Similar to the B&M) and a Magnefine inline filter.
The difference was really suprising. The shifts are noticibly firmer but in a good way and in no way harsh. I can clearly feel the shift followed by the torque converter locking up, as it should be. Also, during acceleration, the car seems to continue to pull hard right up to just before the shift, whereas before it would just kinda rev and slip into the next gear unnoticed.
My favorite thing that I've noticed so far though, is that when I brake to slow down in traffic and then step on the gas to accelerate, the car instantly downshifts and just goes! Before, the transmission would freak out as if it was thinking "Oh [censored], he was slowing down, and now he wants to speed up, what do I do? Ummmmmmmmmm...... I guess I could downshift?" and then it would slowly lurch into acceleration. That by itself has made me a believer in MaxLife! It's also made me like my car a lot more. The "slush box" feels a lot less slushy and much more fun to drive!
Thanks to everyone who has shared your experiences in this thread and others! I will update this thread with my personal experiences.
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