Under a CR-V's valve cover

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I will say that, at least visually, the engine hasn't appeared to get cleaner or dirtier since I've owned it. There are some dark areas in the camshaft bearing towers in the crevices...little pockets of varnish it seems. I can see some of these through the oil fill hole, and have monitored it continuously since I bought the car. I was hoping that the oil I've been using would clean those little pockets of varnish, but that has not happened. I'm not saying that the engine couldn't generally be cleaner today compared with when I bought it, but it visually hasn't changed...again, at least what I can see through the oil fill hole.

Would these pockets of varnish (not even pea-sized, mind you) have formed if synthetic were used from the beginning? I don't know. Would these pockets of varnish eventually clean up if I continue with quality "cleaning" synthetic oils? I don't know the answer to that either.

This is one reason I'm moving back to conventional (PYB or VNG). I will say that the engine was noisiest on cold starts with VWB, at least of the oils that I've run in it, so if I do try Valvoline again, it'll be the NextGen variety to see if there's any difference. It seems to be the quietest on the M1 AFE. I have not used PYB in it, and look forward to that, because I previously owned a slightly noisy 4-cylinder (Nissan KA24E), and a high moly oil (Havoline) really helped to quiet that motor down. And PYB is also highly regarded as a "cleaning" oil, so maybe it'll slowly improve with consistent 5k mile OCIs.

And let me append something I wrote earlier. I didn't mean to imply that the camshaft lobes have, literally, no wear. Obviously these are metal parts with metal rollers riding on them...there will be wear. What I was looking for was scarring, grooving, pitting, stuff like that. And what I found were 12 cam lobes that were very smooth, with no wear pattern that could be felt with a fingertip. I have observed cam lobes that appeared ground down over time, scalloped, scuffed, etc. Those are the kinds of things I was looking for, not that I really expected to find them. And I was happy to not find them.
 
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Valvoline dino seems to keep engines really clean.


The last three OCI were SYNTHETIC.....not dino....PP 5w20 and M-1 0w20.

Since we haven't seen the engine with just dino....we could conclude that.... SYNTHETIC seems to keep engines really clean.





**Oil history: Valvoline white bottle from the dealer at intervals specified by the maintenance minder (about 7-8k miles each), from new until when I bought it with about 45,000 miles*

^^From the op`s first post. Re-read it in it`s entirety please,unless you`re suggesting that 10,000 miles of pseudo-syn and syn cleaned up his severely sludged-ruined by VWB dino engine?


Not suggesting that at all! But....it started with dino....but for the last 10K +/- has been with some of the best synthetics available (PP and M1) both of which have great reputations as oils that 'clean'. Based on those facts, that engine might have had issues with dino (especially at 7K to 8K OCI's)....but the use of high quality synthetics....might have cleaned it up. Just my opinion.


can I have some of that cool aid?
 
IMOH, Honda engines are not hard on oil. I opened up my old Accord due to leaking oil pan and valve cover gasket and @ 300K miles I couldn't believe how clean it was at both ends. On dino oil all it's life too!
 
Thanks for the post, Hokiefyd. How did you learn to do the adjustment? Online? Book? My '04 Accord K24 has over 100k miles now. I should check the valves. Never done it before. Easy, hard?
 
Originally Posted By: k24a4
Thanks for the post, Hokiefyd. How did you learn to do the adjustment? Online? Book? My '04 Accord K24 has over 100k miles now. I should check the valves. Never done it before. Easy, hard?


I have an alldatadiy.com account. It's pretty much a carbon copy of the service manual, so all the stuff is in there. PM me, and I can help you out with the instructions. It wasn't difficult, but because the engine is slanted backwards in the engine bay, the exhaust valves were harder to reach and gauge.
 
I ran the car around after I adjusted the valves, and there didn't seem to be any difference in the cold-start noise or light chatter this engine seems to make. However, yesterday morning I drained out the Mobil 1 AFE 0W-20 and poured in my free (from BITOG Q&A session rebate) Valvoline MaxLife NextGen 5W-20 and I can say that there's a marked difference in the volume of the chatter from this cold motor. You can still kind of hear it if you're listening for it, but it sounds to be very muted. The oil almost "feels" thicker in the throttle pedal, but I must say, we went on a 200 mile trip yesterday afternoon to Wilmington and back and I got 29.6 mpg on the trip. That's the best I've ever done in this vehicle, and well above its 26 mpg highway rating. So I'll be watching in-town mpg closely to see if it's commensurate with what I achieved before on the M1 0W-20. If so, I may continue with this oil. I had plans to switch to PYB, but this VMLNG seems to be the real deal.
 
Thanks for the update, i stocked up on like 30 quarts of NextGen during various FAR deals over the past several months and i've yet to use it.
 
Quote:
It seems to be the quietest on the M1 AFE.


I have the same engine. M1 0w20 SN was the best in terms of engine noise level. Extremely quiet.

In the cold, this engine tends to make a bit of noise. M1 0w20 took that away.

Engine looks really good. Valvoline makes good oil for shorter drain intervals. Wear protection is excellent.
 
thanks for posting the nice pics, I have a 2008 accord 2.4 k24z3 with 70k miles which i believe looks the same under the valve cover as your CRV. I am trying to decide if i should pop the valve cover off or not. the thing is the more i read about adjusting valves the more i think i hear "noisy valves" ha
 
Yes nothing like
cool.gif
reading into things to make it work for me. The white bottle worked fine the syn worked fine and neither was better than the other and that's the truth but it hurts a wee bit.
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Valvoline dino seems to keep engines really clean.


The last three OCI were SYNTHETIC.....not dino....PP 5w20 and M-1 0w20.

Since we haven't seen the engine with just dino....we could conclude that.... SYNTHETIC seems to keep engines really clean.





**Oil history: Valvoline white bottle from the dealer at intervals specified by the maintenance minder (about 7-8k miles each), from new until when I bought it with about 45,000 miles*

^^From the op`s first post. Re-read it in it`s entirety please,unless you`re suggesting that 10,000 miles of pseudo-syn and syn cleaned up his severely sludged-ruined by VWB dino engine?


Not suggesting that at all! But....it started with dino....but for the last 10K +/- has been with some of the best synthetics available (PP and M1) both of which have great reputations as oils that 'clean'. Based on those facts, that engine might have had issues with dino (especially at 7K to 8K OCI's)....but the use of high quality synthetics....might have cleaned it up. Just my opinion.
 
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Congrats on clean engine, but this disassembly at this low mileage on a functioning unit is not really merited...


Right. The OP should display such an exhibit at approximately 200K miles. Let's see what it's like then.
 
Even with the current fill its a little noisy but not too bad. Next fill will be with PP 5W20 with a purlator synthetic filter. At some point I need to change the valve cover gasket on the Tacoma. Be sure to take pictures of the inside.
 
Originally Posted By: DinoOil
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Congrats on clean engine, but this disassembly at this low mileage on a functioning unit is not really merited...


Right. The OP should display such an exhibit at approximately 200K miles. Let's see what it's like then.


This. ^^^
 
Thank you for posting-and appreciate the pictures. I have the same engine in my 05 Accord. Valves were adjusted for the first time last month at 180K. No diff in cold weather clatter.
I beg to differ on your assessment of cam lobe condition---and offer my opinion only as that, my opinion, not to argue with you. After 101K miles on 5-20 I switched over to 5-30 because my lobes were starting to take on the appearance of yours. They never quite got to where yours are at, but I didn't want to be replacing cams at 200K when it is not a good financial move. I am happy with the 5-30 and do not ever plan to go back to any 20 weight in this car. For me, QSUD has been the loudest oil--cold as well as warm---contrary to the current thinking of high Boron being a 'quieting' remedy
 
Originally Posted By: steve20
Thank you for posting-and appreciate the pictures. I have the same engine in my 05 Accord. Valves were adjusted for the first time last month at 180K. No diff in cold weather clatter.
I beg to differ on your assessment of cam lobe condition---and offer my opinion only as that, my opinion, not to argue with you. After 101K miles on 5-20 I switched over to 5-30 because my lobes were starting to take on the appearance of yours. They never quite got to where yours are at, but I didn't want to be replacing cams at 200K when it is not a good financial move. I am happy with the 5-30 and do not ever plan to go back to any 20 weight in this car. For me, QSUD has been the loudest oil--cold as well as warm---contrary to the current thinking of high Boron being a 'quieting' remedy


If it is a roller motor, why would you be replacing cams? The cams will likely outlive the rest of the engine.
 
Originally Posted By: steve20
Thank you for posting-and appreciate the pictures. I have the same engine in my 05 Accord. Valves were adjusted for the first time last month at 180K. No diff in cold weather clatter.
I beg to differ on your assessment of cam lobe condition---and offer my opinion only as that, my opinion, not to argue with you. After 101K miles on 5-20 I switched over to 5-30 because my lobes were starting to take on the appearance of yours. They never quite got to where yours are at, but I didn't want to be replacing cams at 200K when it is not a good financial move. I am happy with the 5-30 and do not ever plan to go back to any 20 weight in this car. For me, QSUD has been the loudest oil--cold as well as warm---contrary to the current thinking of high Boron being a 'quieting' remedy


I go back and forth between a 20 grade and a 30 grade, in terms of what I will use next. It has Mobil 1 0W-30 in it now. Whether this is a more appropriate oil for the engine compared with a 20 grade, I don't know.

I don't believe there are problems with the cam lobes. The "grooves" you see on the cam lobes are more like "witness lines" than "wear grooves". They cannot be felt at all. Could you measure wear with a micrometer? Probably. But although they appear to be "grooved", it's just the way the flash from the camera makes them appear. The picture was taken with an older smartphone in my garage, so lighting was poor.

I am interested in your assessment of which oils have run quietest and loudest in this engine. This K24 has been the most sensitive engine I've owned to oil selection, in terms of engine noise. Most engines I've owned have sounded the same, regardless of the oil in the sump. But this one is definitely louder or quieter on certain oils. I'm interested to hear what your experience has been.
 
When this thread was originally posted, I was just 20 days past buying a new Si with the k24z7 engine. Within the lifespan of the factory fill, my cam lobes looked the exact same way. I've since run heavier oils, usually a franken-mix of whatever I have on the shelves of my aging stash, and the cam lobes have not gotten any worse. So perhaps the cams are allowed to get those lines on the very outer surface but nothing beyond???

I've similarly run whatever oil was closest in my '02 CR-V for probably ten of the eleven years I've owned it (ran M1 5W30 the first) and it's still motoring along.
 
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