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tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. #2936212 03/12/13 08:54 AM
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InhalingBullets Offline OP
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Has anyone ever heard of this?
Yesterday my brother called me from Discount tire with a problem. He had taken my sister in laws Chrysler Minivan in to have a flat repair and a tire rotation. Discount told him that they could not/would not rotate the rear tires to the front because the rear tires had more tread on them than the front tires. The Discount manager told him that Michelin did a study that said it was more important to have more tread on the rear tires to prevent hydroplaning on front wheel drive vehicles and that DOT is recommending this. (The tires do not need to be replaced as they have thousands of serviceable miles left on them.) My argument is this: most vehicles have abnormal wear on the front especially on FWD like cupping and uneven tread wear. I believe it is necessary to rotate the tires to keep tread wear even and to keep more rubber on the road in the front for turning and braking. Discount and Michelin have me baffled a this point. Any thoughts?


'16 Toyota Prius 4
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'13 Toyota Prius 3
Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: InhalingBullets] #2936222 03/12/13 09:00 AM
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Colt45ws Offline
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How significant is the difference?


-Colton
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Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: InhalingBullets] #2936225 03/12/13 09:03 AM
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The idea behind having more tread on the rear tires is to prevent oversteer, where the rear of the car skids before the front when cornering. Oversteer is more difficult for the average driver to control than understeer and can lead the the classic "spinout".

Guess that's one more reason to have tires rotated frequently, especially by a third party: Discount Tire is just trying to avoid being held responsible for an accident.

Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: InhalingBullets] #2936228 03/12/13 09:03 AM
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Yes. I would rotate them myself. Problem solved.

The tire store is trying to avoid an almost statistically impossible to predict future lawsuit.

They don't want your business. So, either do it yourself or take it somewhere else. And remember this when it is time for new tires.


2004 Silverado - on its 3rd Jasper engine in less than one year.
Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: InhalingBullets] #2936243 03/12/13 09:22 AM
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Unless the tires are down to the wear bars, it will be OK to rotate them.


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Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: InhalingBullets] #2936244 03/12/13 09:22 AM
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Pictures of front and rear tires required. To a point, you are both correct. Personally, I'll take my chances with the better tires on front, but I realize they're planning for "the masses" and not me.

robert

Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: InhalingBullets] #2936245 03/12/13 09:22 AM
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InhalingBullets Offline OP
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The video is talking about 2 new tires going on the vehicle which is somewhat different than a simple rotation where the tire wear comparison from front to rear is negligible or within a few 1000ths. However using the logic that this Discount and Michelin have on the issue you would NEVER rotate the tires unless you rotated them every 1500 miles or less because your front tires will never have more tread than the rears. That is unless there is a mechanical issue in the rear suspension. We get rain less than 60 days a year but you have to stop and turn every day. It seems to me that rotating the tires properly and driving to the conditions is most important.
It appears the video is also using two old fwd Ford Taurus without Stability and Skid control and a RWD BMW.

Last edited by InhalingBullets; 03/12/13 09:26 AM.

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Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: mrsilv04] #2936254 03/12/13 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
They don't want your business.

I would disagree with this; more often than not people go into a tire store thinking the "best" tires should be on the front of the car when in fact they should ALWAYS be on the rear no matter if it is FWD/RWD/4WD/AWD. The video posted above clearly shows the reasons for that and all tire manufacturers recommend the same. Discount Tire was simply following best practice in this case and IMHO is looking out for the best interest of the customer's safety--lawsuits not withstanding.

DT has always treated me fairly and has matched prices (both local and online)--YMMV.


2019 o)|||||(o Rubicon Wrangler Unlimited 3.6L V6 [Castrol Edge 0W-20 + FRAM Ultra]
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Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: mrsilv04] #2936256 03/12/13 09:28 AM
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InhalingBullets Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Yes. I would rotate them myself. Problem solved.

The tire store is trying to avoid an almost statistically impossible to predict future lawsuit.

They don't want your business. So, either do it yourself or take it somewhere else. And remember this when it is time for new tires.


I know! I personally rotate my tires but in this case my brother has a severely inclined driveway that prevents it...and he has the cash to pay someone else.


'16 Toyota Prius 4
'15 Honda Accord Sport
'14 Victory Cross Country Tour
'13 Toyota Prius 3
Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: Danh] #2936257 03/12/13 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted By: Danh
The idea behind having more tread on the rear tires is to prevent oversteer, where the rear of the car skids before the front when cornering. Oversteer is more difficult for the average driver to control than understeer and can lead the the classic "spinout".

Guess that's one more reason to have tires rotated frequently, especially by a third party: Discount Tire is just trying to avoid being held responsible for an accident.
Pretty tough to cause a nose heavy, FWD minivan to "oversteer". I've also found that new tires with full tread tend to run at higher slip angles than those which have broken in. In any event, this "objection" to mounting on the front seems to be for bad weather "issues".

Last edited by HerrStig; 03/12/13 09:36 AM.
Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: InhalingBullets] #2936258 03/12/13 09:29 AM
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We need pics of the tires to better assess the situation.

Last edited by zzyzzx; 03/12/13 09:29 AM.
Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: InhalingBullets] #2936260 03/12/13 09:30 AM
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You don't give any measurements on tire wear. Anything down to 4/32" is a concern.

DT is on very firm ground here. Very well known and accepted about what they said.

Any other good tire store should do the same.

Last edited by user52165; 03/12/13 09:33 AM.
Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: mrsilv04] #2936262 03/12/13 09:30 AM
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SuperDave456 Offline
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Ehh. I don't mind Discount.
Cost Co however lost my business.
They won't touch a tire if it isn't one they put on the car.

I had a nail puncture a tire and go up through the sidewall. Cost Co wouldn't honor the road hazard, so I went to Discount Tire. When I was at Cost Co for a rotation, while I was shopping, they wouldn't touch either tire on the side that the new tire was on because the tire wasn't 'from them'.
However, Cost Co said they could "fix" the issue if they just replaced all 4 tires again. "As they are a little worn" is what they said.
2 years and 10,000 miles is not a "Little Worn".

It is a liability issue for them, and it helps them jack up their sales.

I do find it funny that they now recommend the "better" tires go on the rear of the car.
It also ensures that they sell more tires as you wear out the ones on the front first.

Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: InhalingBullets] #2936267 03/12/13 09:32 AM
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stephen9666 Offline
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Originally Posted By: InhalingBullets
The video is talking about 2 new tires going on the vehicle which is somewhat different than a simple rotation where the tire wear comparison from front to rear is negligible or within a few 1000ths.


How do you know that's the case on the vehicle in question? Have you measured the tread depth?

If the tires have never been rotated or rotated very little, then there can be a significant difference in tread depth.

But, you make a valid point that they need to be reasonable, since tires need to be rotated.

Without info on the tread depth, we don't know if the tire store is being smart or stupid in this instance. If there is a significant difference in tread depth, then they're correct. If there isn't a big difference, then they're being asinine.

Originally Posted By: InhalingBullets
keep more rubber on the road in the front for turning and braking.


Tire companies would disagree with you. More tread on rear, they say.

Re: tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan. [Re: InhalingBullets] #2936275 03/12/13 09:36 AM
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faramir9 Offline
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What is the difference in tread depth between the front and rear tires? If the rears have 9-10/32 and the fronts have 3-4/32, the shop might have a point. (See the famous TR video.) If the difference is only 1-2/32 between the front and rear, then it's silly and lawyer-driven. If that's the case it pretty much rules out rotating tires---ever---and thus invalidates any treadwear warranty.

That's they way some folks are going, it seems. No rotation, the fronts wear faster, replace tires in pairs of 2 rather than sets of 4, the deeper tread always on the rear. Fine if that's what you want. I tend to believe in consumer choice....but that's getting scarcer by the day. Good luck.

Last edited by faramir9; 03/12/13 09:39 AM. Reason: typo

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