Toyota 0W-20 SN, 5024 miles, 2012 4Runner 1GR-FE

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Jul 15, 2006
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Location
Magnolia, TX
10,039 miles on engine
5,024 miles on oil
Toyota filters
Shell 89 fuel with LE L-X 2300 fuel additive
Break-in oil changes were done with VWB 5W-20 SN at 600 and 2000 miles.
My wife drives this car doing a few short trips a day with an occassional 1-2 hour trip every couple of weeks.

Polaris Labs Houston

Iron 9
Chromium 0
Nickel 0
Aluminum 2
Copper 38
Lead 0
Tin 0
Cadmium 0
Silver 0
Vanadium 0
Silicon 12
Sodium 24
Potassium 1
Titanium 0
Molybdenum 100
Antimony 0
Manganese 0
Lithium 0
Boron 1
Magnesium 12
Calcium 2126
Barium 3
Phosphorous 686
Zinc 771

Zero make-up oil
Fuel % estimate Soot % vol Water % vol V@100C 7.6 cSt
TBN 4.26
Oxidation 17
Nitration 9

Sorry, no VOA of this batch. I put TGMO 0W-20 back in for another 5K OCI.
 
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I think the Cu is from a oil cooler line. I've seen this high number before on dual VVTi 1GR-FE engine UOA's. The Na is propably leftover from VWB use earlier.

Since Polaris didn't do a GC scan for fuel, I asked them to do a TAN as compensation.

My wife's driving habits (3 miles to work and then whatever), and the oil shearing, I'll probably stay with 5K OCI's for awhile.

I just bought two more cases of the 0W-20 today from a local dealership ($5.66/qt). So it will get at least three more fills of the TGMO.
 
Looks good and the Copper is normal during break in. I presume the car is under warranty, so you will have to stick with the oil and short OCI. In the long term it would save money to look at extending towards 10K if the UOA's look good (Try 7.5K first), but move up to a major brand full synthetic if you want to try that.
Not sure what the max recommended OCI for this engine is, but after the warranty is over it would save money and improve filtration performance if you do alternate oil filter changes if you stick with a 5K mile oil change. If you extend to 7.5K mile oil changes based on good UOA results then a top quality EP filter (Mobil 1?) will last 15K miles.
 
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
I think the Cu is from a oil cooler line. I've seen this high number before on dual VVTi 1GR-FE engine UOA's. The Na is propably leftover from VWB use earlier.

Since Polaris didn't do a GC scan for fuel, I asked them to do a TAN as compensation.

My wife's driving habits (3 miles to work and then whatever), and the oil shearing, I'll probably stay with 5K OCI's for awhile.

I just bought two more cases of the 0W-20 today from a local dealership ($5.66/qt). So it will get at least three more fills of the TGMO.


Copper always shows up in Toyota engines undergoing breakin. I got similar readings in mine, 2GR-FE, in second OCI.

I personally believe copper is coming from assembly lube. At least it goes away quickly after several OCI, just like silicon.

BTW, These engines are wearing little. You are wasting money on UOA.
 
The folks here think UOA's are fun and a great insurance policy if something goes wrong with the head gasket, air filtration or injection system. They also allow you to figure out the optimum OCI for your engine and useage, rather than trusting in the Iffy lube or dealer sticker which can be wrong in either direction.
 
I just can't get over how ordinary this SN oil looks compared to SM. I know, I know, everybody claims the moly is some new super duper tri-nuclear blah, blah, blah but I can't help but think Toyota cheapened this oil. Mazda didn't. I wonder why?

Thanks for running the test Indymac. Glad to see the strong TBN at 5,000 since I'm running it to 10,000 in my Sienna (per factory specs).
 
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I doubt that I'll extend the interval much more. I like to have a look around my vehicles about every six months to see if there are any problems I can't detect otherwise. In order to do that, I have to put it on jack stands and take the mud guard and skid plates off. I might as well change the oil and filter after that much work.

The TGMO is affordable for me and the filter elements are about $3. So ROI is no big deal at this point. I'm just interested in protecting my investment at a reasonable cost. If the TGMO performance heads south, then I'll try something else.

Apparently, the Cu is from the type of welds used in the oil cooler lines. It's not from the bearings or bushings.

I'll probably do another UOA at 25K miles to see how things are looking.
 
UOA looks fine for a break-in at 10k.


Given the intent to OCI at moderate amounts, I'd say you're not going to get any ROI from the syn. Plenty of dino oils can easily handle 5k-7k miles with the same results for less cost.
 
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
I just can't get over how ordinary this SN oil looks compared to SM. I know, I know, everybody claims the moly is some new super duper tri-nuclear blah, blah, blah but I can't help but think Toyota cheapened this oil. Mazda didn't. I wonder why?


If Toyota's moly is indeed the newer (and more expensive) moly that is more effective at lower doses, maybe they didn't cheapen the oil after all. Perhaps it's Mazda who is using the "cheap" moly, and dumping in larger quantities because it's not as effective as the "good" stuff?

I don't know either way, just providing a discussion point.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
I just can't get over how ordinary this SN oil looks compared to SM. I know, I know, everybody claims the moly is some new super duper tri-nuclear blah, blah, blah but I can't help but think Toyota cheapened this oil. Mazda didn't. I wonder why?


If Toyota's moly is indeed the newer (and more expensive) moly that is more effective at lower doses, maybe they didn't cheapen the oil after all. Perhaps it's Mazda who is using the "cheap" moly, and dumping in larger quantities because it's not as effective as the "good" stuff?

I don't know either way, just providing a discussion point.


The Moly story is a complicated one and the oil companies don't help by defining what exactly they are using for additives. If you ignore the new tri nuke and the old corrosive Moly, then this extract from a document about Moly is still true:

At end-point (140 °C) on step-ramp profile, final friction coefficient for 75
ppm Mo formulation similar to that obtained at higher treat-rates (200
ppm)
[Mo] (ppm) Final Friction Coefficient
0 0.16
75 0.07
200 0.06


What that means is there is not much point in adding more than 200ppm, so the question is what have Redline and the new 0/20's used that requires such a large amount. I suspect the answer is something cheaper that either gets degraded or stuck in the filter.
 
Well, one has to wonder when it is obvious that several manufacturers want their engines exposed to high moly levels, at least during break-in. Cp3 has a page one post here where the FF on his son's Mazda3 is over 900 ppm when he changed it at 2000km.
 
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC

Apparently, the Cu is from the type of welds used in the oil cooler lines. It's not from the bearings or bushings.


If so, how come mine had high copper too? No oil coolers in 2GR-FE in RAV4. Besides, copper gets flushed out with several OCIs.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC

Apparently, the Cu is from the type of welds used in the oil cooler lines. It's not from the bearings or bushings.


If so, how come mine had high copper too? No oil coolers in 2GR-FE in RAV4. Besides, copper gets flushed out with several OCIs.


I thought the 2GR-FE and the 1GR-FE were the same, only mounted differently. Oil cooler lines leaching are the only thing that makes sense to me. I've never seen a bearing where the top layer was copper. But I guess it's possible. Anyways, my RAV4 cleaned up over time too:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2446904&page=1
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
UOA looks fine for a break-in at 10k.


Given the intent to OCI at moderate amounts, I'd say you're not going to get any ROI from the syn. Plenty of dino oils can easily handle 5k-7k miles with the same results for less cost.


Just trying to stay within the Toyota guidelines for now. I'll look around for a 0W-20 dino to save some money though if it's important to you. I'll probably just stay with the TGMO 0W-20 for now since I just bought two cases.

■ Engine oil selection
“Toyota Genuine Motor Oil” is used in your Toyota vehicle. Use
Toyota approved “Toyota Genuine Motor Oil” or equivalent to satisfy
the following grade and viscosity.
Oil grade: ILSAC multigrade engine oil
Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-20
SAE 0W-20 is the best choice for
good fuel economy and good
starting in cold weather.
If SAE 0W-20 is not available,
SAE 5W-20 oil may be used.
However, it must be replaced
with SAE 0W-20 at the next oil
change.
Oil viscosity (0W-20 is explained here as an example):
● The 0W in 0W-20 indicates the characteristic of the oil which allows
cold startability. Oils with a lower value before the W allow for easier
starting of the engine in cold weather.
● The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when
the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a
higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high
speeds, or under extreme load conditions.
 
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC

Just trying to stay within the Toyota guidelines for now. I'll look around for a 0W-20 dino to save some money though if it's important to you. I'll probably just stay with the TGMO 0W-20 for now since I just bought two cases..

if you find a 0W-20 Dino, be sure to let us know.
 
I will let you know. I'm not opposed to using dino in this application. Heck, I've already used it twice for early flushes during breakin as previously mentioned. I wouldn't be opposed to using a 30 grade either if I thought it would work better. But for now, I'll use the Toyota guidance and see where that leads.
 
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
I will let you know. I'm not opposed to using dino in this application. Heck, I've already used it twice for early flushes during breakin as previously mentioned. I wouldn't be opposed to using a 30 grade either if I thought it would work better. But for now, I'll use the Toyota guidance and see where that leads.
..looking at the Canadian Toyota site..the first 3 oil drains are done at 8k/k or 5k/mi and then maintain the oil change interval at 10k/mi or 16k/k ..
 
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