Filter for Buick V6 high performance

[porvdub]

Hello:

I have a Buick 231 cu. in. (3.8liter) V6 mounted in a Porsche 914. The motor is a performance engine, it has the extended length oil pump gears for higher flow rates, and thus develops as much as 80-90 psi of pressure, generally 60 psi when freeway driving when warmed up (using 10w-30 oil). From what I understand this is about double the presure found in the un-modified stock Buick Regal motor

I recently did an oil change and found my Fram TG3387A filter has a crushed internal media. The filter was no longer filtering! This is the recommended filter for a stock Buick Regal.

At anyrate I want to get an uprated filter. I have room for a larger filter also, since the motor is in my 914, there is no clearnace issue.

I have the M18 x 1.5 metric threads on the filter adaptor.

I have done a bunch of searching for a good filter and have come up with the following possibilities....


WIX brand 51036XP which is supposed to have a wire backed synthetic media.

K and N brand HP 2001, which has a "premium media" what ever that means.

FRAM Extend Guard (Ultra) XG 3980 which has a sythetic media.


I figure any of these three will work better than the crushed Fram TG 3387A which I removed.

All of these suggested filters are a couple inches longer than the one I removed, but they will fit, they all have anti-drain back valves, and have no bypass (my motor has a bypass built in). Since my filter media was found to be crushed, I pulled the bypass spring and piston on the motor to confirm they are correct and the piston moves freely.


Of these three, Is one superior than the others? Is one inferior?
Or does someone have a better suggestion?

I was tending towards the K and N, but then I read that the filtertion is average on this filter. The Wix got me interested with the wire backed sythetic media claim. Although I an not at all happy with the Fram Toughguard I removed, the Fram Extend Guard Ultra is supposed to be an improvement over it, and has synthetic media.

Your thoughts on my three choices?

Thank You!

 

[JHZR2]

I personally do not believe that one will be drastically better or worse than the other. You might also look for the Delco Ultraguard Gold version of the OE filter for your engine.

GM engine in a Porsche... Never thought Id hear of that!

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I personally do not believe that one will be drastically better or worse than the other. You might also look for the Delco Ultraguard Gold version of the OE filter for your engine.

GM engine in a Porsche... Never thought Id hear of that!

Happens alot...A bunch of them running around with LSxs in them.
Just for you JHZR2

Like GM or not their drivetrains make good, reliable power cheaply.

Porsches with the LS1

To answer the OPs question, Try the AC Delco Filter for that car. It should handle those pressures fine.
But if you don't want the GM filter, I would go with the WIX.
Is this a supercharged 3800 or the turbocharged one?
Series II or III?

 

[Clevy]

The fram ultra has wire backed media.
I'd try using a 20 grade in that engine. You would get more volume flowing at any given time. Easier on the oil pump too

 

[porvdub]

It's an evenfire 3.8 with a high riser manifold, normal asperation Holley 4 barrel, header pipes, has an agressive cam. I did not build the motor so I dont have all the details.

It is pretty darn torquey, really moves that light little car.

So the AC Delco filter is pretty good? I'll give that a look at too.

I dont know why the Fram Tough Gaurd failed like it did. I know my oil pressure is bumped up from the stock, and I only had about 3000 miles on the oil change, I shouldn't have clogged the filter that soon. The guts just collapsed, leaving no filteration at all.

What ever I put in it has to be more beefy than the Fram that was in there. I am hopng the slightly larger filters will help avoid this problem.

 

[KCJeep]

Using the larger filter like you plan to will help. I'd think the synthetic, wire backed Ultra 3980 you mentioned a great match for what you need.

Can you post pics of the crushed TG 3387?

 

[porvdub]

The Fram Tough Guard filter that failed has a perforated metal inner liner, the Pleated filter paper is on the outside of this metal. The perforated metal sheet was all bent too. It is not like a simple pleated paper media got crushed inward, the perforated metal "screen" down stream of the paper media also caved in. You can see it very clearly thru the oil outlet port.
I wil needa very strong media support, larger flow capability (bigger filter) to avoid this again.

I guess a thinner oil should be considered too. although the GM performance books I do have recommend 10W-30.

I could pick a larger diameter filter, I have the space, but I have not been able to find one with the M18 x 1.5 mm thread. If I could find a HP1 sized filter, with the right threads, I'd consider that. I guess I should post a topic with that question.

 

[ls1mike]

Got it. I know a few of the guys I race with run that kind of oil pressure use the AC/Delco. Not sure why the Fram failed.

Keep the 10W-30.

 

[porvdub]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Using the larger filter like you plan to will help. I'd think the synthetic, wire backed Ultra 3980 you mentioned a great match for what you need.

Can you post pics of the crushed TG 3387?


I'll try to get some photo posted, I have not uploaded a photo before, But i give it a try, but it is dinner time right now.

 

[default]

Perhaps consider a filter with bypass?

 

[porvdub]

well i am reading more on the Buick V6 motors. Turns out many folks have posted on Buick club sites about crushed filter elements, specially with the enlarged oil pump such as what i have. even a K and N filter was found crushed internally.

the problem is a combination of a high output pump, a very small filter (ie restrictive) and a small bypass port on the engine. The stock bypass on the enigne was not enough to handle the increased flow evidently (my stock engine mounted filter bypass IS functioning, It is a fairly low pressure bypass from what i read it kicks in at about 10 psi (the spring is very soft, takes little finger pushing effort to open this bypass) i am surprised the bypass did not protect the filter. i guess that the bypass passageway is too restrictive when running the high volume oil pump.

thus a bigger filter is needed.

These motors have the tiny M18 filter threads, so a big filter is not available. A big filter will not as easily crush, all other things being equal.

there is an outfit that makes a M18 to 13/16 threaded adaptor, that will allow installation of the larger selection of 13/16 threaded filters (Big filters) , that is probably the way to go for me. the other option is to get a remote filter mount. But I would rather not spend the time and money routing hoses and such.
i do have room in the 914 for a big filter in the stock location, so long as I get a thread conversion.

the folks at RJC racing sell this thread converter. I hope i can source one locally this monday as my car is up on stands waitng for me to finish the oil change.

I suppose i could make my own by getting a 13/16 threaded nipple then drill and tap the inside of the nipple to the M18 thread (this appears to be what RJC is selling).

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: porvdub
well i am reading more on the Buick V6 motors. Turns out many folks have posted on Buick club sites about crushed filter elements, specially with the enlarged oil pump such as what i have. even a K and N filter was found crushed internally.

the problem is a combination of a high output pump, a very small filter (ie restrictive) and a small bypass port on the engine. The stock bypass on the enigne was not enough to handle the increased flow evidently (my stock engine mounted filter bypass IS functioning, It is a fairly low pressure bypass from what i read it kicks in at about 10 psi (the spring is very soft, takes little finger pushing effort to open this bypass) i am surprised the bypass did not protect the filter. i guess that the bypass passageway is too restrictive when running the high volume oil pump.

thus a bigger filter is needed.


Since this is a GM product, I'm taking it that the filter bypass is in the block. Yes, these filters are getting crushed because the high volume oil pump is overwhelming the filter with flow, and that causes the bypass to open which can't handle the excess flow. Then the delta-P across the element is still so high that it crushes the center tube of the filter.

What weight oil are you using?

These ideas might help mitigate the problem until you can find the right adapter to use a much larger filter.

1) Find a filter that also has a bypass valve in the filter. That way, if the engine block bypass opens and can't handle the flow, the pressure will rise in the filter until the bypass in the filter also opens up. This way, you have two filter bypass valves operating in parallel.

2) Try to use a filter that has a beefy center tube. The ones you listed above sound good. I would definitely use a full synthetic type (like the FRAM Ultra) because they probably flow a little better and have less delta-P across the media.

3) Use the largest filter you can use on the mount you have now - you've probably already done that.

4) Keep the engine RPM down until the oil is fully hot - especially if you're running a pretty heavy oil. Thinner oil means less delta-P across the filter, and also allows the bypass valve to handle the flow better if it does go into filter bypass.

 

[OVERKILL]

May I ask why the insanely high volume oil pump?

 

[GMBoy]

I know all about the Buick V6...I own an 87 Grand National. My turbo motor runs high oil pressure too. I use Bosch filters..#3331 in my case. I've also used STP #S3387A with good results. I cut open each of these and they looked good and solid.