'98 Camaro LS3 oil choice

J

JimMueller

Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
19
Location
FL USA
I have a '98 Z28 Camaro with a handbuilt LS3 motor which was installed June 2010. I've been using Redline 10W40 & K&N oil filter after break-in but I've found that the local speed shop has stopped carrying that oil. In addition, the oil pressure needle on the gauge sometimes twitches, even after replacing the pressure sending unit. The oil pressure is typically above 40psi at idle, although it reported between 60 & 80 during a short trip a few days ago when the motor was cold.

I ran the RL oil because I intended to attend HPDE's and going back to autocross, but I never have... it's all been street driving in central Florida. I've read various recommendations of PU 5W30 and M1 5W30 but that it seemed to matter whether it was a C5/C6 or a F-body (weight?)... would those still be my fill of choice, or are there other recommendations?

main bearing clearance .0022-.0025
rod bearing clearance .0016-.0020

Thanks!

Jim
 
Assuming your still running a hydraulic roller and not solid I would recommend you run a EURO oil like M1 0/40. but you could get away with a 5/30 normal driving.

Welcome to BITOG
 
Do you have an oil cooler on the car?
What speed parts does your engine have in it?

For street driving, M1 5w30 will do.
For track use, I found that my engine without an oil cooler will cause M1 0w40 to oxidize.
Redline 5w30 would probably stand the heat of track use better. But since your local speed shop has stopped carrying RL 10w40, they probably don't have 5w30 either.
German Castrol (Syntec 0w30 European Formula) is a good oil to consider for high-performance use.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I would also like to know what was installed into that built LS3, and did you use your stock ECM (with a rewrite/tune, of course) with a 24T reluctor wheel, or some other setup?

I would just use the suggested M1 0W-40 for street use in central Fla., if you must use an off the shelf product (it IS the best in that category!!).
 
I just noticed one of those GM Performance LS3 into an LS1 car 'kits', with all of the wiring, reluctor wheel, etc.
Is that what you used?

Also, did the builder keep the stock crank and cam bearing clearances, or did they go bigger, as that is usually the most important determiner of what weight/HTHSV oil one should use.

Does it have an oil cooler added?

Were those oil pressure readings from our stock, in the cluster, gauges, or were they from an aftermarket gauge (Autometer, etc.)?

Is this a MAST Motorsports engine?
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Do you have an oil cooler on the car?
What speed parts does your engine have in it?

For street driving, M1 5w30 will do.
For track use, I found that my engine without an oil cooler will cause M1 0w40 to oxidize.
Redline 5w30 would probably stand the heat of track use better. But since your local speed shop has stopped carrying RL 10w40, they probably don't have 5w30 either.
German Castrol (Syntec 0w30 European Formula) is a good oil to consider for high-performance use.





There is no way that GC is gonna out perform M1. Oxidize? Yeah right,if this were true the same would happen with GC.
 
No kidding. I usually see some shear in M1 0w-40 based on my LS1's oil pressures over time, but that seems to be by design. GC is a good oil, but I think M1 0w-40 is just as good if not stronger.

M1 5w30 isn't a bad choice either, but if you have higher than stock spring pressures the euro options with more ZDDP might be beneficial.
 
Originally Posted By: fauxchemist
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Do you have an oil cooler on the car?
What speed parts does your engine have in it?

For street driving, M1 5w30 will do.
For track use, I found that my engine without an oil cooler will cause M1 0w40 to oxidize.
Redline 5w30 would probably stand the heat of track use better. But since your local speed shop has stopped carrying RL 10w40, they probably don't have 5w30 either.
German Castrol (Syntec 0w30 European Formula) is a good oil to consider for high-performance use.





There is no way that GC is gonna out perform M1. Oxidize? Yeah right,if this were true the same would happen with GC.


I don't know if M1 0w40 is more oxidation resistant than GC, because I've never run GC in my car. But it is on my list of oils to try before I die. But I do have to be honest about my experience: I ran a mix of M1 0w40 and M1 5w30 HM in my Camaro last year, and it did oxidize as documented in this UOA.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2667608#Post2667608

Polaris flagged the oxidation number and recommended that I change the oil. Since it was a mix, I can't say whether or not straight M1 0w40 would not have oxidized, but M1 High Mileage is pretty good oil, too.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: fauxchemist
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Do you have an oil cooler on the car?
What speed parts does your engine have in it?

For street driving, M1 5w30 will do.
For track use, I found that my engine without an oil cooler will cause M1 0w40 to oxidize.
Redline 5w30 would probably stand the heat of track use better. But since your local speed shop has stopped carrying RL 10w40, they probably don't have 5w30 either.
German Castrol (Syntec 0w30 European Formula) is a good oil to consider for high-performance use.





There is no way that GC is gonna out perform M1. Oxidize? Yeah right,if this were true the same would happen with GC.


I don't know if M1 0w40 is more oxidation resistant than GC, because I've never run GC in my car. But it is on my list of oils to try before I die. But I do have to be honest about my experience: I ran a mix of M1 0w40 and M1 5w30 HM in my Camaro last year, and it did oxidize as documented in this UOA.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2667608#Post2667608

Polaris flagged the oxidation number and recommended that I change the oil. Since it was a mix, I can't say whether or not straight M1 0w40 would not have oxidized, but M1 High Mileage is pretty good oil, too.


I see they have a virgin oxidation number, but how did they come to that figure, since what you ran was a blend? I'm wondering if it wasn't the M1 0w40 that oxidized, but the fact that you ran a blend that skewed the oxidation.
21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: fauxchemist
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Do you have an oil cooler on the car?
What speed parts does your engine have in it?

For street driving, M1 5w30 will do.
For track use, I found that my engine without an oil cooler will cause M1 0w40 to oxidize.
Redline 5w30 would probably stand the heat of track use better. But since your local speed shop has stopped carrying RL 10w40, they probably don't have 5w30 either.
German Castrol (Syntec 0w30 European Formula) is a good oil to consider for high-performance use.





There is no way that GC is gonna out perform M1. Oxidize? Yeah right,if this were true the same would happen with GC.


I don't know if M1 0w40 is more oxidation resistant than GC, because I've never run GC in my car. But it is on my list of oils to try before I die. But I do have to be honest about my experience: I ran a mix of M1 0w40 and M1 5w30 HM in my Camaro last year, and it did oxidize as documented in this UOA.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2667608#Post2667608

Polaris flagged the oxidation number and recommended that I change the oil. Since it was a mix, I can't say whether or not straight M1 0w40 would not have oxidized, but M1 High Mileage is pretty good oil, too.


I see they have a virgin oxidation number, but how did they come to that figure, since what you ran was a blend? I'm wondering if it wasn't the M1 0w40 that oxidized, but the fact that you ran a blend that skewed the oxidation.
21.gif




I am also interested, as I have a bunch of track time on M1 0W-40 with oil temps near 300 degrees with virtually no degradation at all.
 
Wow, a lot of replies in such a short period of time; I didn't expect that :)

Answers:

- I am still running a hydraulic roller
- I do not have an oil cooler in the car
- Internal motor 'speed' parts: Specifics are foggy because it was 2.5 years ago, but off the top of my head... ARP rod bolts, 4.07" bore SRP pistons, PAC beehive springs, 222/230 .600/.600 EPS cam, Improved Racing pan baffle, Katech oil pump, Katech C5R timing chain, ATI Superdamper (though not internal)
- The OEM LS3 cam bearing clearance is .0009-.0038"; rod bearing clearance (production .0009-.0025", service .0009-.003", mine are .0016-.0020"); main bearing clearance (production .0008-.0021", service .0008-.0025", mine are .0022-.0025"). I see that I didn't list cam bearing clearances in the first post, I'll re-check the build sheet.
- Oil pressure readings are from the OEM dash gauge
- Not a MAST motor

I ran Euro GC 0W30 in prior LS1 motors, but when I've been to the local Autozone the last few trips I rarely see it. I used the stock PCM with a crank which already had the correct reluctor wheel instead of the (as an example) Lingenfelter conversion box. Motor builder suggested something like a 15W50 for track use, but I figured I would just change it to something track worthy when that time came. He was leary of the Euro GC 0W30 even given it's reputation.

The LS3 parts were spares my buddy had after another deal fell through. He had the cylinder case, lower rotating assembly, complete top end and also had his complete Kent-Moore LS1 alignment tool kit to align/measure, etc. Re-used my factory harness and just bought conversion cabling for sensors as well as specific speed parts I wanted. Had a good deal to turn it into a 418 but didn't want to worry about the glass rear end, traction, and fuel economy.

A few months after I took delivery, the pressure relief valve hung open while participating in an event in Kentucky. Not knowing the cause, I towed it home and bought another pump from Katech. Katech inspected the original and said foreign material caused the relief to hang up. Other than finger pointing between the engine builder and Katech I got nowhere with that. Now I've been reading that a relief valve might cause the twitch oil pressure gauge reading.
 
Those clearances are slightly bigger than stock. You may benefit from a 40 grade unless you are maintaining adequate pressure with a 30 grade.
There is a quote I've seen around here that make more and more sense to me as time passes
" As thin as possible but as thick as necessary"
Very wise words as I ponder them
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: fauxchemist
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Do you have an oil cooler on the car?
What speed parts does your engine have in it?

For street driving, M1 5w30 will do.
For track use, I found that my engine without an oil cooler will cause M1 0w40 to oxidize.
Redline 5w30 would probably stand the heat of track use better. But since your local speed shop has stopped carrying RL 10w40, they probably don't have 5w30 either.
German Castrol (Syntec 0w30 European Formula) is a good oil to consider for high-performance use.





There is no way that GC is gonna out perform M1. Oxidize? Yeah right,if this were true the same would happen with GC.


I don't know if M1 0w40 is more oxidation resistant than GC, because I've never run GC in my car. But it is on my list of oils to try before I die. But I do have to be honest about my experience: I ran a mix of M1 0w40 and M1 5w30 HM in my Camaro last year, and it did oxidize as documented in this UOA.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2667608#Post2667608

Polaris flagged the oxidation number and recommended that I change the oil. Since it was a mix, I can't say whether or not straight M1 0w40 would not have oxidized, but M1 High Mileage is pretty good oil, too.


I see they have a virgin oxidation number, but how did they come to that figure, since what you ran was a blend? I'm wondering if it wasn't the M1 0w40 that oxidized, but the fact that you ran a blend that skewed the oxidation.
21.gif



I had a VOA done of the 0w40 / 5w30 HM mix when I first installed it, so that is a legitimate oxidation number. If I had data on oil temperature, that would go a long way to explain what's going on.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman

I had a VOA done of the 0w40 / 5w30 HM mix when I first installed it, so that is a legitimate oxidation number. If I had data on oil temperature, that would go a long way to explain what's going on.


I wonder if it is just the blending that did it then? IE, those two oils don't "mix well".
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman

I had a VOA done of the 0w40 / 5w30 HM mix when I first installed it, so that is a legitimate oxidation number. If I had data on oil temperature, that would go a long way to explain what's going on.


I wonder if it is just the blending that did it then? IE, those two oils don't "mix well".


Could be. When I did this M1 blend, I was going for GC'ish viscosity specs (KV100 and HTHS), but with higher VI. Once I saw that it oxidized, I dumped it. I'm running Redline 5w30 now, and put a couple of aggressive track days on it before winter set in. If I decide to go back to M1, I'll probably put in 0w40 to get an unadulterated run on it. If the current fill of Redline holds up based on UOA data, I'll stick with that, though.
 
I don't think I've ever run a 30 grade in the LS3, except for perhaps the break-in oil. The engine build list I pulled from an online book that I provided to the engine builder doesn't have an area to list cam bearing clearance. I would expect them to be very near if not within factory tolerances.
 
I would just run the Red Line 0W-40 from mail order, since it is known to be virtually shearproof, and monitor the oil pressures/oil temps with AFTERMARKET gauges, especially during open track sessions/long autocross courses.

Are you on frrax.com??

I need to change my oil pump on my stock internal LS1.

Except for that spring issue, (was it EVER resolved?) do you suggest the Katech pump, or would you go with a; Scoggins-Dickey, Melling Performance, GMPP, SLP blueprinted, or the Schumann's Dynamic Performance pump if you had to do it over again?
 
Yes, I'm on FRRAX and I go by the same ID (I recognize yours also). The original Katech pump I bought (KAT-A2390) had the stuck relieve valve in September 2010, and I replaced it with another A2390 about a week later. I haven't researched alternative pumps if I were to do it over again. But FWIW, I used that same model on two separate LS1 builds without any issues.

The replacement pump hasn't had any known issues since it was installed (unless the twitchy OEM gauge is related). But at the same time the oil pressure was twitchy my other gauges were as well, and it was related to a bad power cable near the firewall. After we fixed the power cable & I replaced the OPSU, only the OP gauge is still acting twitchy.

I highly doubt I'll ever take this motor open tracking because of the sweeping lefthand G issue with the oil puddling in the heads. Not real interested in buying an Aviaid or similar dry sump system to remedy that issue; I've read that others have the same Improved Racing pump I have with an Accusump and their pressure still drops 20PSI in such turns. As such, not terribly interested in adding more gauges to the interior. I do have an older thread on FFRAX regarding fluid temps where we ended up discussing oil cooler components with Alan.

I'm mostly looking for what's best for my driving conditions which won't cause reliability issues and won't hurt fuel economy. Since I don't have the factory temp & pressure gauges nor warranty concerns, just seeing which brands and viscosities I should consider. I'm not against mail ordering Redline though.
 
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