Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife

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According to Valvoline'scomments, the fluid was correct and good. There was nothing wrong with the transmission before I started. There is no doubt in my mind the OEM transmission would still be fine with the OEM fluid.

I blame the MaxLife. My technique was perfect.

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Could it be that the MaxLife was defective (incorrect additives were used, ect?)
 
My point too. Thank you.

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Kestas
The closest I could find to a warranty for Valvoline MaxLife ATF is the following statement:

"In the unlikely event that you or your customer experiences any transmission damage while using MaxLife ATF, please contact Valvoline at 1-800-Team-VAL for assistance."

I wouldn't really call it a warranty. It's just an invitiation to listen to your problem.


That's the crux of the issue I think. While I'm skepticle that the Maxlife ATF caused the failure, but if it did Valvoline would most certainly deny it and not take responsibility. So they're claim of no fluid failure or fluid defect means nothing. They will likely always say that even if it's not so. That goes for probably any fluid manufacture not just Valvoline. Really that goes for most aftermarket parts manufacturers and incidental damage like oil filters for one example. And even if they have a stated warranty, they would be quick to deny responsibility and not honor their warranty.
 
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There was no way, no how the fluid I drained not the factory fill. If the sample I provided contained zinc, then zinc was in the factory fluid.

I drained the FF, no top off was ever added, and no way and no how could anyone other than myself have added anything and I did not add anything. Period.

The sample I sent had zinc or the sample was wrong.



Understood that you are upset for having to replace or rebuild at a cost of a $2,700.00 tranny, and no one is claiming your drain/refill procedure was flawed.

What I am trying to say to help you and other people with a failure is this:

1. Document your situation carefully and unemotionally,

2. do a VOA of current fluid you are putting into tranny for your OWN records,

3. Provide a UOA of prior fluid from drain stream,

4. have shop keep ALL parts that were failed for possible subsequent forensic analysis

Did Valvoline provide you with a results of the analysis? They may not even if requested, which is why your own VOA's and UOA's are important for any claims.

Failures like this are a tough and costly lesson.

Since your situation is so much one of "after the facts" (no failed parts for proof, no UOA's or VOA's), consider this as another lesson in life and move on.
 
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...consider this as another lesson in life and move on.


I did. It was other members on this board that would not or could not let it go. I will not support Valvoline as a result of my experience.

What good is this forum if everyone agrees on everything?

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
There was no way, no how the fluid I drained not the factory fill. If the sample I provided contained zinc, then zinc was in the factory fluid.

I drained the FF, no top off was ever added, and no way and no how could anyone other than myself have added anything and I did not add anything. Period.

The sample I sent had zinc or the sample was wrong.



Understood that you are upset for having to replace or rebuild at a cost of a $2,700.00 tranny, and no one is claiming your drain/refill procedure was flawed.

What I am trying to say to help you and other people with a failure is this:

1. Document your situation carefully and unemotionally,

2. do a VOA of current fluid you are putting into tranny for your OWN records,

3. Provide a UOA of prior fluid from drain stream,

4. have shop keep ALL parts that were failed for possible subsequent forensic analysis

Did Valvoline provide you with a results of the analysis? They may not even if requested, which is why your own VOA's and UOA's are important for any claims.

Failures like this are a tough and costly lesson.

Since your situation is so much one of "after the facts" (no failed parts for proof, no UOA's or VOA's), consider this as another lesson in life and move on.
 
Whenever you service a transmission, differential,or transfercase, there is always the chance that the unit could coincidentally encounter a problem, and then the failure get some fingers pointed at you or the products used, when in fact it had nothing to do with your method or materials, but instead the unit was going to fail soon anyhow. I have had experiences all over the map in this regard. I flushed and changed filter on a 4L60E in a 1991 car with original fluid at 120k miles or so and after a re-flush a few thousand miles later with Amsoil ATF and addition of an aux cooler and inline filter, that same unit with Amsoil fluid went another 200k miles without incident. I did the same thing with a 2000 Astro and same transmission and fluid (minus the inline filter), and it died within a year. Who do we blame, Amsoil? I mean after all, shouldn't that fluid have extended the life of this unit? Maybe it did some, and maybe it did not, but we will never know, and given the somewhat troublesome history of these units over the years and the known issues (weak spots like the reaction shell and servo piston,etc), I would say it was just bad luck instead. There were parts in failure mode and it was going to fail sooner than later. My trans builder bought a 99 Suburban and never serviced the tranny just to see how long it would go without touching it and it went almost 200k miles. Then he rebuilt it and did all the major updates, etc and now has M1 ATF in it with a Magnefine and original aux cooler.

My point here is to say that I service transmissions as carefully as possible to prevent issues (procedure and good fluid), and as soon in the life of the unit as reasonable to prevent issues as well. I believe this increases the odds that the unit will give a longer service life. In units with known issues, at best it is a [censored]--shoot. The guy who builds manual transmissions for me said it kind of crudely: an AT is kinda like a woman....one day you wake up and for absolutely no reason at all, it's over! I'm not sure I buy that analogy completely, but he had a bad divorce, so probably that's where that came from. I think his drinking had a bit to do with it personally...but hopefully you get the point.

I had another situation where I had serviced the rear diff in a 97 suburban for a friend who takes his boat to the lake a lot and was concerned his diff had bad fluid in it from towing or water-intrusion. Anyway, like 2 days later he called me all concerned as he was hearing and feeling a lot of bad things in the powertrain and thought maybe I had done something to cause the unit to fail or the Amsoil diff lube was bad stuff. Anyway, ended up his 4L60E which fortunately I had not touched, had decided it was a good week to die.

Oil Changer, as much as I know it just seems too coincidental that yours died like it did, I believe that is what may have happened, and I am very sorry it did. That just sucks! It certainly feels better somewhat to have someone to blame, but i would blame GM here instead. And that reman unit was about $1000 too high!
 
There was nothing wrong with the transmission before the fluid exchange. I blame the MaxLife junk, not GM.

$2700 was out the door. Tax, fluid (Dex VI), labor, everything. I searched the transmission prices online. The price was fair enough.
 
People like to blame anyone, but them, known fact.
Maybe OP overfilled, or under filled?
And unfortunately, I have more trust in Ashland than GM.
Thousands of people worldwide use their products and have great results.
 
Oil Changer - you should be proud of achieving something that is rarely seen on BITOG.

CONSENSUS!

After 14 pages, EVERYBODY agrees that Valvoline was NOT at fault.

Congratulations on your achievement!

Now, how about starting a thread called "Thin oil ruined my engine"?
 
Originally Posted By: MBS500
People like to blame anyone, but them, known fact.
Maybe OP overfilled, or under filled?
And unfortunately, I have more trust in Ashland than GM.
Thousands of people worldwide use their products and have great results.


The fluid level was perfect.
 
Originally Posted By: FoxS
Oil Changer - you should be proud of achieving something that is rarely seen on BITOG.

CONSENSUS!

After 14 pages, EVERYBODY agrees that Valvoline was NOT at fault.

Congratulations on your achievement!

Now, how about starting a thread called "Thin oil ruined my engine"?


I don't care. I blame Valvoline. MaxLife is sewer water.
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer

I don't care. I blame Valvoline. MaxLife is sewer water.


Originally Posted By: Oil Changer


...consider this as another lesson in life and move on.

I did. It was other members on this board that would not or could not let it go.


The lack of self-knowledge you exibit is rare and priceless. Thank you!
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer

I don't care. I blame Valvoline.


I'll keep an open mind here, so with that being said, I do have a question.
Way back in 1987, I lived in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and hundreds of cars suddenly had a problem with their fuel filters and the fuel injection system as a whole. It turns out that the owners of these cars all had one thing in common. They had filled up their gas tanks at a Diamond/Shamrock station. Diamond/Shamrock admitted their mistake, compensated the owners for their repairs and took out a full page apology in the Dallas Morning News. (IIRC, this was in late '87. I wish I had kept a page of the full page apology)
Now in the case of your vehicle, if the oil was at fault, I'm sure that there has been problems with other vehicles using Valvoline MaxLife oil also, don't you think? Seriously, what are the odds that Valvoline made just 7-8 bad quarts of oil (how many quarts did you use?) and all of the bad oil just happened to make it inside your transmission?
So if you've searched the web for transmission failures after using Valvoline MaxLife, how many failures did you find? If there are quite a few failures, it sounds like a good case for a class-action lawsuit.
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer

I don't care. I blame Valvoline. MaxLife is sewer water.


I'm sorry for your loss, but I disagree with the 'sewer water' statement. Some transmissions just can't handle a full change right off the bat. Just accept your losses and never use Valvoline again. That's all you can do. Trash-talking them won't get you any respect around here.
 
Originally Posted By: Kruse
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer

I don't care. I blame Valvoline.


I'll keep an open mind here, so with that being said, I do have a question.
Way back in 1987, I lived in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and hundreds of cars suddenly had a problem with their fuel filters and the fuel injection system as a whole. It turns out that the owners of these cars all had one thing in common. They had filled up their gas tanks at a Diamond/Shamrock station. Diamond/Shamrock admitted their mistake, compensated the owners for their repairs and took out a full page apology in the Dallas Morning News. (IIRC, this was in late '87. I wish I had kept a page of the full page apology)
Now in the case of your vehicle, if the oil was at fault, I'm sure that there has been problems with other vehicles using Valvoline MaxLife oil also, don't you think? Seriously, what are the odds that Valvoline made just 7-8 bad quarts of oil (how many quarts did you use?) and all of the bad oil just happened to make it inside your transmission?
So if you've searched the web for transmission failures after using Valvoline MaxLife, how many failures did you find? If there are quite a few failures, it sounds like a good case for a class-action lawsuit.


I was living in DFW back then and remember hearing someone talking about that.

On the other hand, I think filling station mistakes with additives happen fairly often. I don't think you would always find cases of them happening in a web search. I guess it would depend on just how small a batch problem with ATF could be to go mostly unreported. However, you have to figure a lot of people change their transmission fluid when their trnasmission is acting up and the transmission fails. Many of them probably blame new fluid in an old transmission or maybe even the fluid brand itself but never report it in any numbers online.
 
The very real possibility is that the transmission had a part that was about to fail, and in many cases like this, there is very little if any warning that a failure is imminent, depending on what the issue is. Sometimes a transmission begins to shift irregularly, such as a flare-up or slip, but not always. Sometimes something finally just breaks and you lose all forward gears or reverse or 3rd and 4th gear, and all with no warning. We are talking about a fairly complex hydro-mechano-elecromagical gearbox, afterall.
 
Originally Posted By: FoxS


After 14 pages, EVERYBODY agrees that Valvoline was NOT at fault.



I don't agree that Valvoline is NOT at fault.

The way Valvoline customer service blew the OP off gives some evidence that the product may have been at fault.

As for why we might not have seen other posts on here about a similar failure, that is pretty easy to explain. The pool of members is very small and if the batch of defective product was fairly small it wouldn't affect too many drivers. Just the "unfortunate" ones.
 
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Originally Posted By: Kruse
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer

I don't care. I blame Valvoline.


I'll keep an open mind here, so with that being said, I do have a question.
Way back in 1987, I lived in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and hundreds of cars suddenly had a problem with their fuel filters and the fuel injection system as a whole. It turns out that the owners of these cars all had one thing in common. They had filled up their gas tanks at a Diamond/Shamrock station. Diamond/Shamrock admitted their mistake, compensated the owners for their repairs and took out a full page apology in the Dallas Morning News. (IIRC, this was in late '87. I wish I had kept a page of the full page apology)
Now in the case of your vehicle, if the oil was at fault, I'm sure that there has been problems with other vehicles using Valvoline MaxLife oil also, don't you think?YEP. Seriously, what are the odds that Valvoline made just 7-8 bad quarts of oil (how many quarts did you use?)DON'T KNOW THE ODDS. I USED ABOUT 16 QUARTS. and all of the bad oil just happened to make it inside your transmission?I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT.
So if you've searched the web for transmission failures after using Valvoline MaxLife, how many failures did you find?DIDN'T SEARCH. If there are quite a few failures, it sounds like a good case for a class-action lawsuit.
 
Thank you. I have cut my losses. I will never use a Valvolne product again. MaxLife is sewer water and you are free to disagree if you like. There is more I can do and I will do it. I will get along just fine in my life (my dog will still love me too) without the respect of BITOG members. That one made me laugh.

Originally Posted By: zerosoma
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer

I don't care. I blame Valvoline. MaxLife is sewer water.


I'm sorry for your loss, but I disagree with the 'sewer water' statement. Some transmissions just can't handle a full change right off the bat. Just accept your losses and never use Valvoline again. That's all you can do. Trash-talking them won't get you any respect around here.
 
That's fine. I choose to blame the fluid.

Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
The very real possibility is that the transmission had a part that was about to fail, and in many cases like this, there is very little if any warning that a failure is imminent, depending on what the issue is. Sometimes a transmission begins to shift irregularly, such as a flare-up or slip, but not always. Sometimes something finally just breaks and you lose all forward gears or reverse or 3rd and 4th gear, and all with no warning. We are talking about a fairly complex hydro-mechano-elecromagical gearbox, afterall.
 
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