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'98 Camaro LS3 oil choice #2878725 01/21/13 09:58 AM
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JimMueller Offline OP
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I have a '98 Z28 Camaro with a handbuilt LS3 motor which was installed June 2010. I've been using Redline 10W40 & K&N oil filter after break-in but I've found that the local speed shop has stopped carrying that oil. In addition, the oil pressure needle on the gauge sometimes twitches, even after replacing the pressure sending unit. The oil pressure is typically above 40psi at idle, although it reported between 60 & 80 during a short trip a few days ago when the motor was cold.

I ran the RL oil because I intended to attend HPDE's and going back to autocross, but I never have... it's all been street driving in central Florida. I've read various recommendations of PU 5W30 and M1 5W30 but that it seemed to matter whether it was a C5/C6 or a F-body (weight?)... would those still be my fill of choice, or are there other recommendations?

main bearing clearance .0022-.0025
rod bearing clearance .0016-.0020

Thanks!

Jim

Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: JimMueller] #2878783 01/21/13 10:47 AM
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electrolover Offline
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Assuming your still running a hydraulic roller and not solid I would recommend you run a EURO oil like M1 0/40. but you could get away with a 5/30 normal driving.

Welcome to BITOG

Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: JimMueller] #2878954 01/21/13 01:44 PM
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A_Harman Offline
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Do you have an oil cooler on the car?
What speed parts does your engine have in it?

For street driving, M1 5w30 will do.
For track use, I found that my engine without an oil cooler will cause M1 0w40 to oxidize.
Redline 5w30 would probably stand the heat of track use better. But since your local speed shop has stopped carrying RL 10w40, they probably don't have 5w30 either.
German Castrol (Syntec 0w30 European Formula) is a good oil to consider for high-performance use.

Last edited by A_Harman; 01/21/13 01:50 PM.

1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: JimMueller] #2879394 01/21/13 07:55 PM
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dailydriver Offline
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Yes, I would also like to know what was installed into that built LS3, and did you use your stock ECM (with a rewrite/tune, of course) with a 24T reluctor wheel, or some other setup?

I would just use the suggested M1 0W-40 for street use in central Fla., if you must use an off the shelf product (it IS the best in that category!!).


2016 Ford Fiesta ST 17K miles
Ravenol REP 5W-30
Fram XG3600 filter
Ravenol MTF-2 in the IB6 transaxle
Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: JimMueller] #2880632 01/22/13 07:10 PM
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dailydriver Offline
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I just noticed one of those GM Performance LS3 into an LS1 car 'kits', with all of the wiring, reluctor wheel, etc.
Is that what you used?

Also, did the builder keep the stock crank and cam bearing clearances, or did they go bigger, as that is usually the most important determiner of what weight/HTHSV oil one should use.

Does it have an oil cooler added?

Were those oil pressure readings from our stock, in the cluster, gauges, or were they from an aftermarket gauge (Autometer, etc.)?

Is this a MAST Motorsports engine?


2016 Ford Fiesta ST 17K miles
Ravenol REP 5W-30
Fram XG3600 filter
Ravenol MTF-2 in the IB6 transaxle
Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: A_Harman] #2880758 01/22/13 08:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
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fauxchemist Offline
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Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Do you have an oil cooler on the car?
What speed parts does your engine have in it?

For street driving, M1 5w30 will do.
For track use, I found that my engine without an oil cooler will cause M1 0w40 to oxidize.
Redline 5w30 would probably stand the heat of track use better. But since your local speed shop has stopped carrying RL 10w40, they probably don't have 5w30 either.
German Castrol (Syntec 0w30 European Formula) is a good oil to consider for high-performance use.





There is no way that GC is gonna out perform M1. Oxidize? Yeah right,if this were true the same would happen with GC.

Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: JimMueller] #2880876 01/22/13 10:02 PM
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Torrid Offline
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No kidding. I usually see some shear in M1 0w-40 based on my LS1's oil pressures over time, but that seems to be by design. GC is a good oil, but I think M1 0w-40 is just as good if not stronger.

M1 5w30 isn't a bad choice either, but if you have higher than stock spring pressures the euro options with more ZDDP might be beneficial.


2017 Ford F-150 XLT 5.0 Screw
2014 Ford Edge Sport
Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: fauxchemist] #2881292 01/23/13 10:53 AM
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A_Harman Offline
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Originally Posted By: fauxchemist
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Do you have an oil cooler on the car?
What speed parts does your engine have in it?

For street driving, M1 5w30 will do.
For track use, I found that my engine without an oil cooler will cause M1 0w40 to oxidize.
Redline 5w30 would probably stand the heat of track use better. But since your local speed shop has stopped carrying RL 10w40, they probably don't have 5w30 either.
German Castrol (Syntec 0w30 European Formula) is a good oil to consider for high-performance use.





There is no way that GC is gonna out perform M1. Oxidize? Yeah right,if this were true the same would happen with GC.


I don't know if M1 0w40 is more oxidation resistant than GC, because I've never run GC in my car. But it is on my list of oils to try before I die. But I do have to be honest about my experience: I ran a mix of M1 0w40 and M1 5w30 HM in my Camaro last year, and it did oxidize as documented in this UOA.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2667608#Post2667608

Polaris flagged the oxidation number and recommended that I change the oil. Since it was a mix, I can't say whether or not straight M1 0w40 would not have oxidized, but M1 High Mileage is pretty good oil, too.


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: JimMueller] #2881352 01/23/13 11:59 AM
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dave1251 Offline
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If this where mine I would order red line 5w20 or PU 0W40.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: A_Harman] #2881416 01/23/13 01:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
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OVERKILL Offline
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Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: fauxchemist
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Do you have an oil cooler on the car?
What speed parts does your engine have in it?

For street driving, M1 5w30 will do.
For track use, I found that my engine without an oil cooler will cause M1 0w40 to oxidize.
Redline 5w30 would probably stand the heat of track use better. But since your local speed shop has stopped carrying RL 10w40, they probably don't have 5w30 either.
German Castrol (Syntec 0w30 European Formula) is a good oil to consider for high-performance use.





There is no way that GC is gonna out perform M1. Oxidize? Yeah right,if this were true the same would happen with GC.


I don't know if M1 0w40 is more oxidation resistant than GC, because I've never run GC in my car. But it is on my list of oils to try before I die. But I do have to be honest about my experience: I ran a mix of M1 0w40 and M1 5w30 HM in my Camaro last year, and it did oxidize as documented in this UOA.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2667608#Post2667608

Polaris flagged the oxidation number and recommended that I change the oil. Since it was a mix, I can't say whether or not straight M1 0w40 would not have oxidized, but M1 High Mileage is pretty good oil, too.


I see they have a virgin oxidation number, but how did they come to that figure, since what you ran was a blend? I'm wondering if it wasn't the M1 0w40 that oxidized, but the fact that you ran a blend that skewed the oxidation. shrug


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: OVERKILL] #2881473 01/23/13 01:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,521
SteveSRT8 Online Content
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: fauxchemist
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Do you have an oil cooler on the car?
What speed parts does your engine have in it?

For street driving, M1 5w30 will do.
For track use, I found that my engine without an oil cooler will cause M1 0w40 to oxidize.
Redline 5w30 would probably stand the heat of track use better. But since your local speed shop has stopped carrying RL 10w40, they probably don't have 5w30 either.
German Castrol (Syntec 0w30 European Formula) is a good oil to consider for high-performance use.





There is no way that GC is gonna out perform M1. Oxidize? Yeah right,if this were true the same would happen with GC.


I don't know if M1 0w40 is more oxidation resistant than GC, because I've never run GC in my car. But it is on my list of oils to try before I die. But I do have to be honest about my experience: I ran a mix of M1 0w40 and M1 5w30 HM in my Camaro last year, and it did oxidize as documented in this UOA.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2667608#Post2667608

Polaris flagged the oxidation number and recommended that I change the oil. Since it was a mix, I can't say whether or not straight M1 0w40 would not have oxidized, but M1 High Mileage is pretty good oil, too.


I see they have a virgin oxidation number, but how did they come to that figure, since what you ran was a blend? I'm wondering if it wasn't the M1 0w40 that oxidized, but the fact that you ran a blend that skewed the oxidation. shrug



I am also interested, as I have a bunch of track time on M1 0W-40 with oil temps near 300 degrees with virtually no degradation at all.


"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
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Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
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Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: JimMueller] #2881707 01/23/13 05:42 PM
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JimMueller Offline OP
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Wow, a lot of replies in such a short period of time; I didn't expect that :-)

Answers:

- I am still running a hydraulic roller
- I do not have an oil cooler in the car
- Internal motor 'speed' parts: Specifics are foggy because it was 2.5 years ago, but off the top of my head... ARP rod bolts, 4.07" bore SRP pistons, PAC beehive springs, 222/230 .600/.600 EPS cam, Improved Racing pan baffle, Katech oil pump, Katech C5R timing chain, ATI Superdamper (though not internal)
- The OEM LS3 cam bearing clearance is .0009-.0038"; rod bearing clearance (production .0009-.0025", service .0009-.003", mine are .0016-.0020"); main bearing clearance (production .0008-.0021", service .0008-.0025", mine are .0022-.0025"). I see that I didn't list cam bearing clearances in the first post, I'll re-check the build sheet.
- Oil pressure readings are from the OEM dash gauge
- Not a MAST motor

I ran Euro GC 0W30 in prior LS1 motors, but when I've been to the local Autozone the last few trips I rarely see it. I used the stock PCM with a crank which already had the correct reluctor wheel instead of the (as an example) Lingenfelter conversion box. Motor builder suggested something like a 15W50 for track use, but I figured I would just change it to something track worthy when that time came. He was leary of the Euro GC 0W30 even given it's reputation.

The LS3 parts were spares my buddy had after another deal fell through. He had the cylinder case, lower rotating assembly, complete top end and also had his complete Kent-Moore LS1 alignment tool kit to align/measure, etc. Re-used my factory harness and just bought conversion cabling for sensors as well as specific speed parts I wanted. Had a good deal to turn it into a 418 but didn't want to worry about the glass rear end, traction, and fuel economy.

A few months after I took delivery, the pressure relief valve hung open while participating in an event in Kentucky. Not knowing the cause, I towed it home and bought another pump from Katech. Katech inspected the original and said foreign material caused the relief to hang up. Other than finger pointing between the engine builder and Katech I got nowhere with that. Now I've been reading that a relief valve might cause the twitch oil pressure gauge reading.

Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: JimMueller] #2881710 01/23/13 05:47 PM
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Clevy Offline
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Those clearances are slightly bigger than stock. You may benefit from a 40 grade unless you are maintaining adequate pressure with a 30 grade.
There is a quote I've seen around here that make more and more sense to me as time passes
" As thin as possible but as thick as necessary"
Very wise words as I ponder them


2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter
Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: OVERKILL] #2881726 01/23/13 06:09 PM
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A_Harman Offline
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: fauxchemist
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Do you have an oil cooler on the car?
What speed parts does your engine have in it?

For street driving, M1 5w30 will do.
For track use, I found that my engine without an oil cooler will cause M1 0w40 to oxidize.
Redline 5w30 would probably stand the heat of track use better. But since your local speed shop has stopped carrying RL 10w40, they probably don't have 5w30 either.
German Castrol (Syntec 0w30 European Formula) is a good oil to consider for high-performance use.





There is no way that GC is gonna out perform M1. Oxidize? Yeah right,if this were true the same would happen with GC.


I don't know if M1 0w40 is more oxidation resistant than GC, because I've never run GC in my car. But it is on my list of oils to try before I die. But I do have to be honest about my experience: I ran a mix of M1 0w40 and M1 5w30 HM in my Camaro last year, and it did oxidize as documented in this UOA.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2667608#Post2667608

Polaris flagged the oxidation number and recommended that I change the oil. Since it was a mix, I can't say whether or not straight M1 0w40 would not have oxidized, but M1 High Mileage is pretty good oil, too.


I see they have a virgin oxidation number, but how did they come to that figure, since what you ran was a blend? I'm wondering if it wasn't the M1 0w40 that oxidized, but the fact that you ran a blend that skewed the oxidation. shrug


I had a VOA done of the 0w40 / 5w30 HM mix when I first installed it, so that is a legitimate oxidation number. If I had data on oil temperature, that would go a long way to explain what's going on.


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: '98 Camaro LS3 oil choice [Re: A_Harman] #2881728 01/23/13 06:13 PM
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OVERKILL Offline
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Originally Posted By: A_Harman

I had a VOA done of the 0w40 / 5w30 HM mix when I first installed it, so that is a legitimate oxidation number. If I had data on oil temperature, that would go a long way to explain what's going on.


I wonder if it is just the blending that did it then? IE, those two oils don't "mix well".


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
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