Death of a 3MZ-FE!!! Sludge pics inside!

[OilFool]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: blackman777
.....lousy customer service. There was never any excuse for why Toyota would void a customer's warranty if the engine died after just 20-30,000 miles. IMHO.
Dont be a hater man. Haters only make fools out of themselves.
Put yourself in the customer's shoes. You just bought a new 2000 Toyota truck or large car, and a mere 24,000 miles later the engine dies. Even though you religiously changed the oil every 7000 miles (and the dealer has records of each change), Toyota Corporation refuses to give you a new engine as required by their engine warranty. Instead they blame YOU the customer saying you didn't change the oil. And stick you with a $5000 bill for a new engine.



You are being VERY kind to Toyota it seems... I have had numerous bad incidents with them (No reverse in one truck, say it's my fault bla bla bla...)

But anyways, I just happened to inquire about what a new engine would run me for a Toyota, and it weighs in with a hefty $11,000+ [censored] near half the cost of the truck.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: OilFool
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: blackman777
.....lousy customer service. There was never any excuse for why Toyota would void a customer's warranty if the engine died after just 20-30,000 miles. IMHO.
Dont be a hater man. Haters only make fools out of themselves.
Put yourself in the customer's shoes. You just bought a new 2000 Toyota truck or large car, and a mere 24,000 miles later the engine dies. Even though you religiously changed the oil every 7000 miles (and the dealer has records of each change), Toyota Corporation refuses to give you a new engine as required by their engine warranty. Instead they blame YOU the customer saying you didn't change the oil. And stick you with a $5000 bill for a new engine.



You are being VERY kind to Toyota it seems... I have had numerous bad incidents with them (No reverse in one truck, say it's my fault bla bla bla...)

But anyways, I just happened to inquire about what a new engine would run me for a Toyota, and it weighs in with a hefty $11,000+ [censored] near half the cost of the truck.



My Lexus dealer has bent over backwards for me over the years. So if I seem kind to Toyota, I have my own reasons for it.

 

[blackman777]

Just like you I've had good relations with the Volkswagen dealer, but cannot overlook the thousands of customers that VW is currently screwing (the pump dies at 20,000 miles, spreads shrapnel throughout the engine, and VW voids the engine warranty, saying it's the customer's fault).

Likewise I can't ignore the one-quarter million customers that were forced to involve the FTC and participate in a class-action lawsuit to make Toyota honor the engine warranty & give them new ones. Toyota should have done that from day one (late 90s) rather than leave customers literally crying because their one-year-old truck or car was dead (through no fault of their own).

 

[lexus114]

All makes have there share of problems. Your not going to get away from that. I do agree with you though that Toyota could have handled the 1MZ-FE situation better. I`ll side with you on that one. But I also believe that a lot of the problem was owner fault.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I think what you're talking about in the bottom end pic comes from the crank not having any oil supply and getting really hot. Notice how the counter weights are cooked clean and dry?


How did the walls of the block have "cooked" areas between the washed area from the con-rod oil sprays, and "clean" areas where the oil wash occurs from the crank throws ?

There's no external heat in that area, no friction, but gummy stuff, between lines of washed areas.


Oil flying off a spinning crank is traveling at a fairly high rate of speed, so the spray from the rod journals kept it washed off, sort of like pressure washing... Oil was obviously so contaminated the sludge quickly settled out in areas that were not seeing a "forced" oil movement...

As others have mentioned the engine was likely lacking regular OCI... Assuming regular oil changes, usually a coolant leak will concentrate the sludge in that area...

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: blackman777
On this specific engine, it's speculation. Could have been customer neglect. BUT we also know that Toyota had a problem with failing sludge engines. In the late 90s and early 2000s they had customers with engines dying at 20-30,000 miles and Toyota voided the engine warranty, thus sticking customers with $5000 repair bills.

Not only is that poor engine design but also lousy customer service. There was never any excuse for why Toyota would void a customer's warranty if the engine died after just 20-30,000 miles. IMHO.




Dont be a hater man. Haters only make fools out of themselves.

My mom and I had to spend a lot of time arguing with Toyota when the 2002 Solara developed an oil pan leak. The guy actually said "Toyotas don't leak oil." The man didn't even make an apology when their mechanic saw the leak.

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
But I also believe that a lot of the problem was owner fault.
I have read hundreds of customer complaints, and almost all of them said the same thing: "I changed my oil every 7000 miles as required by the manual, and the dealer did the work and had the records to prove it, but still Toyota voided my engine warranty and refused to replace it." Very few customers did anything wrong.

What Toyota did was equivalent to Walmart or Sears selling TVs that died after only half a year, but when the customers try to get a new TV (per the warranty protection), Walmart or Sears just laughs and refuses to honor the warranty. I call that retail fraud. The FTC calls is a crime.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: blackman777
On this specific engine, it's speculation. Could have been customer neglect. BUT we also know that Toyota had a problem with failing sludge engines. In the late 90s and early 2000s they had customers with engines dying at 20-30,000 miles and Toyota voided the engine warranty, thus sticking customers with $5000 repair bills.

Not only is that poor engine design but also lousy customer service. There was never any excuse for why Toyota would void a customer's warranty if the engine died after just 20-30,000 miles. IMHO.




Dont be a hater man. Haters only make fools out of themselves.

My mom and I had to spend a lot of time arguing with Toyota when the 2002 Solara developed an oil pan leak. The guy actually said "Toyotas don't leak oil." The man didn't even make an apology when their mechanic saw the leak.


Toyotas don't leak oil. So what,they have some kind of gaskets blessed by our Lord Himself?
Funny.

 

[lexus114]

Well,I see this has become another Toyota bashing thread.Like I mentioned before, the other vehicles out there are perfect right? Yeah, okay. Every, or darn near every make vehicle turned out from other companies have had some type of problem. I.E some Honda model`s with transmission prone problems. No recall there as far as I know anyway. I mentioned already that Toyota could have handled the 1MZ-FE situation better. But not one of you brought to light so many of the motor`s that were replaced under good will at the dealership`s to keep a customer happy either. And Toyota did finally extend the engine sludge warranty too. Not sure of the details, but it was put in place.

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
Like I mentioned before, the other vehicles out there are perfect right? Yeah, okay.
I wouldn't care if every Toyota engine died. So long as they replace them, but instead Toyota chose to void 1/4 million customers' warranties (starting in the late 90s) and leave them with $5000 repair bills on cars only 1-2 years old. Even when the car had been oil-changed by the dealer and backed by dealer records.

VW is now doing the same with thousands of other customers (pump dies/ destroys engine).
And Honda is screwing-over a few thousand Pilot owners (just learned this yesterday).
I don't trust any company that refuses to honor its warranty obligations.
IMHO.

[edit]Actually to be totally honest: I don't trust any megacorporation (Apple, Microsoft, GM, et cetera). None has a clean record. Just my humble opinion[/edit]

 

[lexus114]

^^^^Mostly due to a class action lawsuit,However there were already a lot of good will engine replacements in force before the suit.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Like I mentioned before, the other vehicles out there are perfect right? Yeah, okay.
I wouldn't care if every Toyota engine died. So long as they replace them but instead Toyota chose to void 1/4 million customers' warranties (starting in the late 90s) and leave them with $5000 repair bills on cars only 1-2 years old. Even when the car had been oil-changed by the dealer and backed by dealer records.

VW is now doing the same with thousands of other customers (pump dies/ destroys engine).
And Honda is screwing-over a few hundred Pilot owners (just learned this yesterday).
I don't trust any company that refuses to honor its warranty obligations.
IMHO.





Okay, well when you find the perfect vehicle, along with the dealership that services it, let me know alright? I`v already mentioned I could not be any happier with Lexus, and my dealership. Are they perfect in every way? Of course not, but I`ll take them over ANY Mercedes-Benz I have had relations with. I`m not here trying to sell a product, but Toyota is not the only manufacturer with a few skeletons in a closet some where.

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
^^^^Mostly due to a class action lawsuit,However there were already a lot of good will engine replacements in force before the suit.


It isn't "goodwill". It's a legal obligation to replace an engine that is still under warranty.

And I'm not just picking on Toyota. AS YOU said yourself: Almost all these car companies have a history of voiding warranties, even when the cause of death was a badly-designed engine or fuel pump (i.e. the company's fault).

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: lexus114
^^^^Mostly due to a class action lawsuit,However there were already a lot of good will engine replacements in force before the suit.
It isn't "goodwill". It's a legal obligation to replace an engine that is still under warranty.

And I'm not just picking on Toyota. AS YOU said yourself: Almost all these car companies have a history of voiding warranties, even when the cause of death was a badly-designed engine or fuel pump.





Alright, you are absolutely correct in your statement^^^ At any rate, we all have much bigger things going on all around us that are much more important right now. Which we all should probably be much more concerned about. (not going to mention politics as much as i would love to)

 

[blackman777]

Don't recall the answer:

- Can this engine be cleaned & made to run again?

 

[teddyboy]

Originally Posted By: hounddog
There is no cars I can think of that die before 100,000 any more. NONE. Moderate care even 200,000. The auto makers do realize that the cars are very long lived these days. That is what the public demanded and got. That also hurt the car manufactures sales. Average car is owned 11 years by same owner these days.


It would seem that even moderate care should get 200K reasonably trouble free miles. However, at 115K our 99 Taurus coughted up the transmission. That car had received very meticulous care. It was amazing how quickly that transmission went from "there could be a problem" to the car being completely and utterly undriveable. Ultimately we decided that it wasn't a good enough car to spend $2-3 grand replacing the transmission.

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Don't recall the answer:

- Can this engine be cleaned & made to run again?


fairly sure i read earlier in this thread that the engine was siezed, so under that assumption you couldnt crank it via the crankshaft and then that answer would also be a no.

 

[JMHC]

This forum used to be informative...now it's just a forum for bashing manufacturers for one reason or another. This engine probably failed because the owner did not change the oil often enough. Any engine will sludge and fail under harsh treatment. That would be my first conclusion for ANY engine regardless of make rather than a design flaw, especially after 234K. All threads get hijacked by certain camps of detractors these days. It's becoming a joke.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Don't recall the answer:

- Can this engine be cleaned & made to run again?


It locked up. It could be rebuilt. But you would have to beat the pistons out with a sledgehammer.

 

[electrolover]

Guys it went 234k with serious neglect. Good engine as far as im concerned