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VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing #2861613 01/07/13 03:57 PM
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zanzabar Offline OP
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This is a failed (AUG engine code) 1.8t VW engine that apparently spun a cam bearing (noticed when I removed cams) and siezed the top end and shut down the engine. No apparent timing belt damage or misalignment. From what the previous owner said this is probably the 4th 10k OCI with PYB 5-30, unkown maintenance history previous to that. Had a Mobil 1 filter on it when I drained the oil. Some sludge buildup was evident and the oil pressure warning had been triggered on multiple occasions and there was apparently a sludge fix in its history prior to 120k miles as well.

Code:
Mileage    174k      
OCI        10k      
Oil      PYB 5-30   
ALUMINUM    12    
CHROMIUM    2 
IRON        56
COPPER      15
LEAD        2
TIN         8
MOLY        85
NICKEL      2
MANGANESE   1
SILVER      0
TITANIUM    0
POTASSIUM   4
BORON       39
SILICON     26
SODIUM      14
CALCIUM     2276
MAGNESIUM   15
PHOSPHORUS  816
ZINC        963
BARIUM      1

cSt100     9.52
SUS Visc   57.6
Flash°F:   400
Fuel %:    <0.5
Coolant%:  0 
Water%:    0
Insol%:    0.3
TBN:        ?


I find it interesting that Insol% is only 0.3 despite the evidence of sludge buildup, and also note that the air filter was deformed which probably lead to the high silicon.

Also the cam 'bearings' aren't really bearings but aluminum surfaces integral to the head and caps. The failed surface is either from lack of oiling leading to melting of the surface or possibly ingestion of some foriegn metal fragment. There is a bunch of metal galling on both the bearing surface and cam surface so I'm not sure which is more likely.


2007 Volvo V70 (142k miles)
2014 Ford Focus (31k miles)
Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: zanzabar] #2861620 01/07/13 04:04 PM
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Clevy Offline
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So does this show that 10k oil change intervals are too much in this particular engine,how about driving style? Would a 40 grade,or a shorter oil change interval possibly not caused bearing failure.
What can you tell us about how it was driven,is this the only uoa or were more done.
I thought PYB was a good oil for cleaning,why in this application has it not helped the sludge,or was the interval just too long?
As much info as you can provide would be great if possible.
Thank you


2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter
Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: zanzabar] #2861622 01/07/13 04:08 PM
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sciphi Offline
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Repeated 10k miles on dino oil on a high-strung turbo engine in a fairly heavy car will do that...

PYB 5w-30 is excellent oil. It's just not the right oil for this application, and the owner ran it thrice as long as I'd hazard was safe in a turbo engine. In this application, PYB 5w-30 is more of a "get one home safe" oil to change it later with the recommended oil than a long-drain oil.


2013 Toyota RAV4 XLE
2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco
Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: zanzabar] #2861623 01/07/13 04:09 PM
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aquariuscsm Offline
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10,000 miles on a dino oil? Good lord!


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W20

Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: sciphi] #2861630 01/07/13 04:17 PM
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Clevy Offline
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Originally Posted By: sciphi
Repeated 10k miles on dino oil on a high-strung turbo engine in a fairly heavy car will do that...

PYB 5w-30 is excellent oil. It's just not the right oil for this application, and the owner ran it thrice as long as I'd hazard was safe in a turbo engine. In this application, PYB 5w-30 is more of a "get one home safe" oil to change it later with the recommended oil than a long-drain oil.


I would tend to agree with you. PYB is great in oil,but I think following the manufacturers recommendation may have been a good idea.
I can't see the oil,even if its a turbo being a problem with a proper interval,10k was obviously too much.


2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter
Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: aquariuscsm] #2861632 01/07/13 04:17 PM
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sciphi Offline
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
10,000 miles on a dino oil? Good lord!


It's doable in low-power NA engines like the one in our Fit. It's not the right interval or oil for a VW turbo engine, though.


2013 Toyota RAV4 XLE
2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco
Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: Clevy] #2861639 01/07/13 04:21 PM
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sciphi Offline
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Repeated 10k miles on dino oil on a high-strung turbo engine in a fairly heavy car will do that...

PYB 5w-30 is excellent oil. It's just not the right oil for this application, and the owner ran it thrice as long as I'd hazard was safe in a turbo engine. In this application, PYB 5w-30 is more of a "get one home safe" oil to change it later with the recommended oil than a long-drain oil.


I would tend to agree with you. PYB is great in oil,but I think following the manufacturers recommendation may have been a good idea.
I can't see the oil,even if its a turbo being a problem with a proper interval,10k was obviously too much.


The previous owner probably followed VWoA's recommended interval. Problem was, he didn't use the right oil and toasted the engine. I've seen one similar case with a Cruze's 1.4T where the owner toasted the engine by running the cheapest Jiffy Lube fill to 0% on the OLM repeatedly.


2013 Toyota RAV4 XLE
2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco
Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: zanzabar] #2861648 01/07/13 04:25 PM
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Rand Offline
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That engine is notorious for running hot and needing good oil.

Something like 5w40 syn would "PROBABLY" be ok for 10k miles

pyb 5w30 for 10k miles... a bunch of times.. uh no.

not only no WHAT the heck were they thinking no.

That oil does NOT meet the spec vw specifies for that engine.

Last edited by Rand; 01/07/13 04:25 PM.

2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: zanzabar] #2861650 01/07/13 04:25 PM
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antiqueshell Offline
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This is why I LAUGH at folks that constantly bash Volkswagen products...when IN REALITY most problems are caused by poor, or improper maintenance, and or abuse of the vehicle in general.

Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: zanzabar] #2861653 01/07/13 04:27 PM
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skyship Offline
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VW engines should stay fairly clean if kept away from too much time at idle and a major brand oil (Castro, Mobil, Shell and Liqui Moly) with a good OCI used. If it had a previous history of sludge, it sounds like it was abused or had a head gasket fault, as anti freeze kills the detergents and dispersants preventing sludge formation very quickly.
If you get an oil pressure warning at idle when hot, turn the engine off asap and don't start it again until it is fully inspected, as the oil pump intake screen has probably blocked. The sump needs to be removed and cleaned next, but if it's bad the head also has to be removed for a long messy cleaning job. Then it's a case of switching to an HM oil or high detergent oil and short first OCI.
The Silicon is a bit high, but it seems the failure was caused by a bearing damaged by poor lubrication. The Germans use a top of the range 5/40 Synthoil if they want a VW to last.

Last edited by skyship; 01/07/13 04:30 PM.
Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: Clevy] #2861662 01/07/13 04:35 PM
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skyship Offline
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
So does this show that 10k oil change intervals are too much in this particular engine,how about driving style? Would a 40 grade,or a shorter oil change interval possibly not caused bearing failure.
What can you tell us about how it was driven,is this the only uoa or were more done.
I thought PYB was a good oil for cleaning,why in this application has it not helped the sludge,or was the interval just too long?
As much info as you can provide would be great if possible.
Thank you


10K miles is fine for normal service, but if this car was only used in the city it is too much. 5K mile oil only changes with 10K mile main services.

Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: sciphi] #2861666 01/07/13 04:36 PM
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scurvy Offline
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Originally Posted By: sciphi
Repeated 10k miles on dino oil on a high-strung turbo engine in a fairly heavy car will do that...


...not to mention a smaller sump than a similar engine in a front wheel drive vehicle. Passats have the engine mounted longitudinally, so the front crossmember takes up nearly a liter of oil capacity that would be there normally. Typical sump capacites:

2001 Passat 1.8T: 3.7 liters
2001 Jetta 1.8T: 4.5 liters

Smaller sump, heavier car, high strung turbocharged engine doing 10k OCIs on mineral oil is a recipe for disaster. Which is why VW & Audi pegged OCI back to 5k miles and enforced synthetic 502.00 oil for those applications.


You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

06 VW Golf TDI: Shell Rotella T6 5w40, HU726/2x, EaBP90
12 Mazda 5: Castrol Edge 0w20, FL910s
Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: zanzabar] #2861709 01/07/13 05:09 PM
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bigjl Offline
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The only really annoying problem with the 1.8T lump in the UK is the failure of coil packs.

Happens to all the 1.8T's as car as I am aware.

Sister had a nice 7 seater, Seat Albambra with the 1.8T engine in it, bought new and that went through several coil packs.

Anybody that runs dino/mineral in a turbo charged VW for 10k deserves all they get.

The owner has probably saved $40 over the course of 40k miles.

Bargain!

Not!


16 S350d LWB 25k Mobil Super 3000 XE 5w30
17 Smart ForFour Auto 6.5k Mobil 1 0w40 FS
Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: antiqueshell] #2861713 01/07/13 05:15 PM
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JOD Offline
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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
This is why I LAUGH at folks that constantly bash Volkswagen products...when IN REALITY most problems are caused by poor, or improper maintenance, and or abuse of the vehicle in general.



how exactly do I maintain all of the electrical wiring and relays that constantly fail in every VW I've ever owned? Just wondering...

This isn't even close to the correct oil for this engine. It required a VW502 oil, which has a minimum hths of 3.5. It's not that 10K is too long for "dino", this is simply the wrong oil for this engine. I'm not surprised it failed.

Re: VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing [Re: antiqueshell] #2861718 01/07/13 05:17 PM
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simple_gifts Offline
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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
This is why I LAUGH at folks that constantly bash Volkswagen products...when IN REALITY most problems are caused by poor, or improper maintenance, and or abuse of the vehicle in general.



Not really; they aren't that reliable even when maintained.

Last edited by simple_gifts; 01/07/13 05:18 PM.

2004 Prius; 118K; ALM
2007 Yaris 98K ATM
2006 B2300;137K;ALM


Was driving an ox cart; Now on the USS Enterprise
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