ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle

[Degreaser]

Anyone adding ZDDP Engine Oil Additive to your motorcycle oil changes? How many ounces/quart are you using? My bike takes 3.3 quarts per oil change. My thought about ZDDP additive is that engine oils on the market are just not containing enough zinc and phosphate.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Degreaser
My thought about ZDDP additive is that engine oils on the market are just not containing enough zinc and phosphate.

If that was the case, owner manuals for newer bikes would be advising you to add ZDDP. Do they? (rhetorical question)

 

[Degreaser]

Owners Manuals, ie. bike Manufacturers must comply with EPA standards and the EPA is becoming more and more stringent on zine and phosphate levels in oil and nothing bike makers can do about it

 

[WANG]

I don't really see any value added.
You'll probably get too old to ride or tired of the bike before you wear it out using "un-enhanced" MC oil or HDEO.
But, if I did, I'd just follow the label instructions.

 

[Bandito440]

You don't need that. Just use an oil with enough zinc already. I'm not sure what weight of oil you use in that bike, but Rotella T6 is a good choice if you use 40 wt. Mobil 1 15w-50 if you need something heavier. They both have about 1200 ppm.

If you really want more than 1200 ppm, Amsoil Z-rod is good, but unnecessary for your application.

 

[azsynthetic]

Run Maxima oils and you will get more ZDDP than you ever need.

 

[FowVay]

I know that several sport bikes and high powered hyperbikes tend to chew up their #3 connecting rod bearings. I attribute this to oil starvation from doing long wheelies or oil transfer from hard acceleration. I have wondered if having a oil with a strong additive package that would benefit the boundary layer protection would prevent or reduce the bearing seizure.

I use products such as Mobil 4T racing, Bel-Ray EXS and EXP, and would like to try Maxima which I regard as one of the best.

My question - would adding extra zinc or phosphorous to the oil affect the clutch? Modifying a MA2 rated oil with additional anti-wear additive might be detrimental. Any opinions?

 

[rossn2]

Quote:
I attribute this to oil starvation from doing long wheelies or oil transfer from hard acceleration. I have wondered if having a oil with a strong additive package that would benefit the boundary layer protection would prevent or reduce the bearing seizure.


Bearing Seizure due to oil starvation has nothing to do with what kind of oil you're running...

 

[FowVay]

Additives in the lubricant can minimize the effects of seizure. When the hydrodynamic fluid film is absent (the onset of starvation) I'm certain that additives designed to prevent metal-on-metal contact during the elastohydrodynamic and boundary layer operation will come into play to reduce heat, galling, and ultimately bearing shell wipe-out. The question is whether these additives will cause problems with the clutch.

Looking at several oils it's obvious that there are diffences in extreme pressure performance. Maxima's Maxum 4 Ultra seems to be loaded with anti-wear additives. Other oils that rank near the top are Motul 300V factory and Mobil 4T racing. In engines that don't stress their oils there certainly wouldn't be any benefit to having high doses of anti-wear. It's that brief instance where the momentary loss of oil (starvation) to the journal might not result in catastrophic failure if one oil were more robust than another.

So I disagree that seizure is independent of oil brand or type. Naturally I'm not speaking of riding around for a hour with no oil in the sump. I'm talking about a extra measure of safety when a high performance lubricant can/will make the difference.

 

[Degreaser]

Well what happened was I was doing research on the Petro-Canada Duron-E XL blend 15w40 web site, and not seeing the ppm content for moly zinc and phosphates I emailed PC in Toronto and got a reply, they cannot tell me what ppm is in their oil because it's proprietary information. So I figured that maybe a couple ounces of ZDDP zinc and phosphates from an additive put into the Duron blend could not do any harm, can a bike have too much zinc I wonder, I know too much moly is not good for my wet clutch.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: Degreaser
Well what happened was I was doing research on the Petro-Canada Duron-E XL blend 15w40 web site, and not seeing the ppm content for moly zinc and phosphates I emailed PC in Toronto and got a reply, they cannot tell me what ppm is in their oil because it's proprietary information. So I figured that maybe a couple ounces of ZDDP zinc and phosphates from an additive put into the Duron blend could not do any harm, can a bike have too much zinc I wonder, I know too much moly is not good for my wet clutch.


Too much zddp can cause serious issues with wear in any engine.

 

[Bandito440]

Originally Posted By: Degreaser
Well what happened was I was doing research on the Petro-Canada Duron-E XL blend 15w40 web site, and not seeing the ppm content for moly zinc and phosphates I emailed PC in Toronto and got a reply, they cannot tell me what ppm is in their oil because it's proprietary information. So I figured that maybe a couple ounces of ZDDP zinc and phosphates from an additive put into the Duron blend could not do any harm, can a bike have too much zinc I wonder, I know too much moly is not good for my wet clutch.

It does become corrosive at some point. It might be better to use an oil that has a VOA posted or get one yourself. I know the Rotella oils all have enough. Same thing with Mobil 1 15w-50.

 

[Mackelroy]

Whats the Goal here?

To try and run a cheap oil and formulate your own zddp package, seems alittle nuts, since there are already oils with good MC packages, already formulated and Formally tested.

I think this is like Mavel mystery oil, more a feel good package.

 

[cycleman]

I would just stay with a mc specific oil in the weight that your owners manual specs. Changing the make up of an oil by blending an additive is asking for problems. More of something is not always better.

All bikes need a minimum level of additives which is covered by the MA endorsement.

 

[ammolab]

Valvoline VR-1 Dino and Synthetic have stout levels of ZDDP and have done very well in dry clutch motorcycle use.....not sure if any wet clutch issues have been reported.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: ammolab
Valvoline VR-1 Dino and Synthetic have stout levels of ZDDP and have done very well in dry clutch motorcycle use.....not sure if any wet clutch issues have been reported.


Ran the synthetic version in my wet clutch Triumph in the 20w50 flavor and had no issues. Prefer it over the Castrol 20w50 full syn MC oil I tried.

 

[ddtmoto]

The adding of zddp helps with shifting in my bikes. Since the EPA cut allowed zinc and phos, shifting, for me, went down the toilet. Many trannies became notchy. The oils changed and my bikes no longer shifted well. With zddp added I got shifting back to the levels they were before our wonderful epa took issue 3 or 4 years ago with all our motor oils. Zddplus site has good charts/info to determined how much to add to get back the zinc levels of yesteryear. If you don't mind spending 12 to 22 dollars a quart/liter you can still get good levels of zinc and phos in M/Oil. Or you can use a good quality Motorcycle Oil and add zddp, for half the cost of the fancy m/o oils. Some guys say they have no issue with the shifting in their bikes. I do, and this has greatly helped me and others that want the best shifting their bikes can offer. I have been using zddplus and zddpmax for years and for tens of thousands of miles in my bikes. Works just great for me and mine......Texas Tea 10w40 syn M/C oil with 2oz of zddplus in each bike runs about 7.50 a quart, a lot less than most m/c syn oils. Cost effective and sweet shifting....

 

[Truckedup]

According to Valvoline's website their conventional MC oil has .112 ZDDP.
On the previous post on wiped out bearings. If an engine with plain bearins looses oil pressure under high load and RPM, bearing life is seconds before destruction. ZDDP will not help once the oil wedge is gone....

 

[Overfill]

bumping an old thread, I'm sorry guys. What about ZDDP's impact on wet sump transmission gears? From what I see, Redline and Motul put quite a bit in theirs and best I can understand is the ol' "transmission chews up oil," so put in modifiers to prevent friction and fretting? Also, could it be for the impact on cams and tappets?

 

[Overfill]

Originally Posted By: Brian553
bumping an old thread, I'm sorry guys. What about ZDDP's impact on wet sump transmission gears? From what I see, Redline and Motul put quite a bit in theirs and best I can understand is the ol' "transmission chews up oil," so put in modifiers to prevent friction and fretting? Also, could it be for the impact on cams and tappets?


I meant to refer to Maxima. I don't believe Motul and Redline follow such a design philosophy