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#2865596 - 01/10/13 03:00 PM ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle
Degreaser Offline


Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Atlantic Canada
Anyone adding ZDDP Engine Oil Additive to your motorcycle oil changes? How many ounces/quart are you using? My bike takes 3.3 quarts per oil change. My thought about ZDDP additive is that engine oils on the market are just not containing enough zinc and phosphate.

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#2865601 - 01/10/13 03:04 PM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35856
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: Degreaser
My thought about ZDDP additive is that engine oils on the market are just not containing enough zinc and phosphate.

If that was the case, owner manuals for newer bikes would be advising you to add ZDDP. Do they? (rhetorical question)
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#2865642 - 01/10/13 03:55 PM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
Degreaser Offline


Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Atlantic Canada
Owners Manuals, ie. bike Manufacturers must comply with EPA standards and the EPA is becoming more and more stringent on zine and phosphate levels in oil and nothing bike makers can do about it

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#2865687 - 01/10/13 04:33 PM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
WANG Offline


Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 545
Loc: North Carolina
I don't really see any value added.
You'll probably get too old to ride or tired of the bike before you wear it out using "un-enhanced" MC oil or HDEO.
But, if I did, I'd just follow the label instructions.
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#2865691 - 01/10/13 04:39 PM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
Bandito440 Offline


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 3854
Loc: NEUS
You don't need that. Just use an oil with enough zinc already. I'm not sure what weight of oil you use in that bike, but Rotella T6 is a good choice if you use 40 wt. Mobil 1 15w-50 if you need something heavier. They both have about 1200 ppm.

If you really want more than 1200 ppm, Amsoil Z-rod is good, but unnecessary for your application.
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#2865757 - 01/10/13 05:33 PM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1237
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Run Maxima oils and you will get more ZDDP than you ever need.

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#2866243 - 01/11/13 06:23 AM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
FowVay Offline


Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 2679
Loc: Southeastern USA
I know that several sport bikes and high powered hyperbikes tend to chew up their #3 connecting rod bearings. I attribute this to oil starvation from doing long wheelies or oil transfer from hard acceleration. I have wondered if having a oil with a strong additive package that would benefit the boundary layer protection would prevent or reduce the bearing seizure.

I use products such as Mobil 4T racing, Bel-Ray EXS and EXP, and would like to try Maxima which I regard as one of the best.

My question - would adding extra zinc or phosphorous to the oil affect the clutch? Modifying a MA2 rated oil with additional anti-wear additive might be detrimental. Any opinions?
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#2866269 - 01/11/13 06:55 AM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
rossn2 Offline


Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 420
Loc: Ft Hood Texas area
Quote:
I attribute this to oil starvation from doing long wheelies or oil transfer from hard acceleration. I have wondered if having a oil with a strong additive package that would benefit the boundary layer protection would prevent or reduce the bearing seizure.


Bearing Seizure due to oil starvation has nothing to do with what kind of oil you're running...
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#2866343 - 01/11/13 08:37 AM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
FowVay Offline


Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 2679
Loc: Southeastern USA
Additives in the lubricant can minimize the effects of seizure. When the hydrodynamic fluid film is absent (the onset of starvation) I'm certain that additives designed to prevent metal-on-metal contact during the elastohydrodynamic and boundary layer operation will come into play to reduce heat, galling, and ultimately bearing shell wipe-out. The question is whether these additives will cause problems with the clutch.

Looking at several oils it's obvious that there are diffences in extreme pressure performance. Maxima's Maxum 4 Ultra seems to be loaded with anti-wear additives. Other oils that rank near the top are Motul 300V factory and Mobil 4T racing. In engines that don't stress their oils there certainly wouldn't be any benefit to having high doses of anti-wear. It's that brief instance where the momentary loss of oil (starvation) to the journal might not result in catastrophic failure if one oil were more robust than another.

So I disagree that seizure is independent of oil brand or type. Naturally I'm not speaking of riding around for a hour with no oil in the sump. I'm talking about a extra measure of safety when a high performance lubricant can/will make the difference.
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#2866437 - 01/11/13 10:31 AM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
Degreaser Offline


Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Atlantic Canada
Well what happened was I was doing research on the Petro-Canada Duron-E XL blend 15w40 web site, and not seeing the ppm content for moly zinc and phosphates I emailed PC in Toronto and got a reply, they cannot tell me what ppm is in their oil because it's proprietary information. So I figured that maybe a couple ounces of ZDDP zinc and phosphates from an additive put into the Duron blend could not do any harm, can a bike have too much zinc I wonder, I know too much moly is not good for my wet clutch.


Edited by Degreaser (01/11/13 10:38 AM)

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#2867036 - 01/11/13 05:40 PM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
Robenstein Offline


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 5653
Loc: Central IA
Originally Posted By: Degreaser
Well what happened was I was doing research on the Petro-Canada Duron-E XL blend 15w40 web site, and not seeing the ppm content for moly zinc and phosphates I emailed PC in Toronto and got a reply, they cannot tell me what ppm is in their oil because it's proprietary information. So I figured that maybe a couple ounces of ZDDP zinc and phosphates from an additive put into the Duron blend could not do any harm, can a bike have too much zinc I wonder, I know too much moly is not good for my wet clutch.


Too much zddp can cause serious issues with wear in any engine.
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#2867453 - 01/12/13 12:07 AM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
Bandito440 Offline


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 3854
Loc: NEUS
Originally Posted By: Degreaser
Well what happened was I was doing research on the Petro-Canada Duron-E XL blend 15w40 web site, and not seeing the ppm content for moly zinc and phosphates I emailed PC in Toronto and got a reply, they cannot tell me what ppm is in their oil because it's proprietary information. So I figured that maybe a couple ounces of ZDDP zinc and phosphates from an additive put into the Duron blend could not do any harm, can a bike have too much zinc I wonder, I know too much moly is not good for my wet clutch.

It does become corrosive at some point. It might be better to use an oil that has a VOA posted or get one yourself. I know the Rotella oils all have enough. Same thing with Mobil 1 15w-50.
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#2867633 - 01/12/13 09:05 AM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
Mackelroy Offline


Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 1006
Loc: Florida /Texas
Whats the Goal here?

To try and run a cheap oil and formulate your own zddp package, seems alittle nuts, since there are already oils with good MC packages, already formulated and Formally tested.

I think this is like Mavel mystery oil, more a feel good package.

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#2868212 - 01/12/13 06:45 PM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
cycleman Offline


Registered: 03/14/10
Posts: 49
Loc: Lethbridge Alberta
I would just stay with a mc specific oil in the weight that your owners manual specs. Changing the make up of an oil by blending an additive is asking for problems. More of something is not always better.

All bikes need a minimum level of additives which is covered by the MA endorsement.

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#2868220 - 01/12/13 06:52 PM Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser]
ammolab Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 996
Loc: Ruidoso, NM USA
Valvoline VR-1 Dino and Synthetic have stout levels of ZDDP and have done very well in dry clutch motorcycle use.....not sure if any wet clutch issues have been reported.
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