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ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle #2865596
01/10/13 03:00 PM
01/10/13 03:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 83
Atlantic Canada
Degreaser Offline OP
Degreaser  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 83
Atlantic Canada
Anyone adding ZDDP Engine Oil Additive to your motorcycle oil changes? How many ounces/quart are you using? My bike takes 3.3 quarts per oil change. My thought about ZDDP additive is that engine oils on the market are just not containing enough zinc and phosphate.

Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2865601
01/10/13 03:04 PM
01/10/13 03:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,635
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,635
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: Degreaser
My thought about ZDDP additive is that engine oils on the market are just not containing enough zinc and phosphate.

If that was the case, owner manuals for newer bikes would be advising you to add ZDDP. Do they? (rhetorical question)


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2865642
01/10/13 03:55 PM
01/10/13 03:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 83
Atlantic Canada
Degreaser Offline OP
Degreaser  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 83
Atlantic Canada
Owners Manuals, ie. bike Manufacturers must comply with EPA standards and the EPA is becoming more and more stringent on zine and phosphate levels in oil and nothing bike makers can do about it

Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2865687
01/10/13 04:33 PM
01/10/13 04:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 546
North Carolina
WANG Offline
WANG  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 546
North Carolina
I don't really see any value added.
You'll probably get too old to ride or tired of the bike before you wear it out using "un-enhanced" MC oil or HDEO.
But, if I did, I'd just follow the label instructions.


"Sportbikes have evolved from an axe into a scalpel.
Problem is, the average sportbike buyer is more lumberjack than surgeon." -Richard Pollock
Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2865691
01/10/13 04:39 PM
01/10/13 04:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,870
NEUS
Bandito440 Offline
Bandito440  Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,870
NEUS
You don't need that. Just use an oil with enough zinc already. I'm not sure what weight of oil you use in that bike, but Rotella T6 is a good choice if you use 40 wt. Mobil 1 15w-50 if you need something heavier. They both have about 1200 ppm.

If you really want more than 1200 ppm, Amsoil Z-rod is good, but unnecessary for your application.


'14 Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel
Rotella T6 5w-40 & OEM filter
Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2865757
01/10/13 05:33 PM
01/10/13 05:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,237
Phoenix AZ
azsynthetic Offline
azsynthetic  Offline
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,237
Phoenix AZ
Run Maxima oils and you will get more ZDDP than you ever need.

Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2866243
01/11/13 06:23 AM
01/11/13 06:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,755
Southeastern USA
FowVay Offline
FowVay  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,755
Southeastern USA
I know that several sport bikes and high powered hyperbikes tend to chew up their #3 connecting rod bearings. I attribute this to oil starvation from doing long wheelies or oil transfer from hard acceleration. I have wondered if having a oil with a strong additive package that would benefit the boundary layer protection would prevent or reduce the bearing seizure.

I use products such as Mobil 4T racing, Bel-Ray EXS and EXP, and would like to try Maxima which I regard as one of the best.

My question - would adding extra zinc or phosphorous to the oil affect the clutch? Modifying a MA2 rated oil with additional anti-wear additive might be detrimental. Any opinions?

Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2866269
01/11/13 06:55 AM
01/11/13 06:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 428
Ft Hood Texas area
rossn2 Offline
rossn2  Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 428
Ft Hood Texas area
Quote:
I attribute this to oil starvation from doing long wheelies or oil transfer from hard acceleration. I have wondered if having a oil with a strong additive package that would benefit the boundary layer protection would prevent or reduce the bearing seizure.


Bearing Seizure due to oil starvation has nothing to do with what kind of oil you're running...


2017 Ram 1500 Crewcab, Custom Ordered 4x4, 3.92 rear, Hemi
2018 Hyundai Sante Fe Sport 30mpg
2017 RG Ultra, 2009 Dyna Superglide
Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2866343
01/11/13 08:37 AM
01/11/13 08:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,755
Southeastern USA
FowVay Offline
FowVay  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,755
Southeastern USA
Additives in the lubricant can minimize the effects of seizure. When the hydrodynamic fluid film is absent (the onset of starvation) I'm certain that additives designed to prevent metal-on-metal contact during the elastohydrodynamic and boundary layer operation will come into play to reduce heat, galling, and ultimately bearing shell wipe-out. The question is whether these additives will cause problems with the clutch.

Looking at several oils it's obvious that there are diffences in extreme pressure performance. Maxima's Maxum 4 Ultra seems to be loaded with anti-wear additives. Other oils that rank near the top are Motul 300V factory and Mobil 4T racing. In engines that don't stress their oils there certainly wouldn't be any benefit to having high doses of anti-wear. It's that brief instance where the momentary loss of oil (starvation) to the journal might not result in catastrophic failure if one oil were more robust than another.

So I disagree that seizure is independent of oil brand or type. Naturally I'm not speaking of riding around for a hour with no oil in the sump. I'm talking about a extra measure of safety when a high performance lubricant can/will make the difference.

Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2866437
01/11/13 10:31 AM
01/11/13 10:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 83
Atlantic Canada
Degreaser Offline OP
Degreaser  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 83
Atlantic Canada
Well what happened was I was doing research on the Petro-Canada Duron-E XL blend 15w40 web site, and not seeing the ppm content for moly zinc and phosphates I emailed PC in Toronto and got a reply, they cannot tell me what ppm is in their oil because it's proprietary information. So I figured that maybe a couple ounces of ZDDP zinc and phosphates from an additive put into the Duron blend could not do any harm, can a bike have too much zinc I wonder, I know too much moly is not good for my wet clutch.

Last edited by Degreaser; 01/11/13 10:38 AM.
Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2867036
01/11/13 05:40 PM
01/11/13 05:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,653
Central IA
Robenstein Offline
Robenstein  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,653
Central IA
Originally Posted By: Degreaser
Well what happened was I was doing research on the Petro-Canada Duron-E XL blend 15w40 web site, and not seeing the ppm content for moly zinc and phosphates I emailed PC in Toronto and got a reply, they cannot tell me what ppm is in their oil because it's proprietary information. So I figured that maybe a couple ounces of ZDDP zinc and phosphates from an additive put into the Duron blend could not do any harm, can a bike have too much zinc I wonder, I know too much moly is not good for my wet clutch.


Too much zddp can cause serious issues with wear in any engine.


2011 Triumph Speedmaster
1986 Chevy Monte Carlo SS
1970 Chevy Nova
2006 Scion TC
Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2867453
01/12/13 12:07 AM
01/12/13 12:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,870
NEUS
Bandito440 Offline
Bandito440  Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,870
NEUS
Originally Posted By: Degreaser
Well what happened was I was doing research on the Petro-Canada Duron-E XL blend 15w40 web site, and not seeing the ppm content for moly zinc and phosphates I emailed PC in Toronto and got a reply, they cannot tell me what ppm is in their oil because it's proprietary information. So I figured that maybe a couple ounces of ZDDP zinc and phosphates from an additive put into the Duron blend could not do any harm, can a bike have too much zinc I wonder, I know too much moly is not good for my wet clutch.

It does become corrosive at some point. It might be better to use an oil that has a VOA posted or get one yourself. I know the Rotella oils all have enough. Same thing with Mobil 1 15w-50.


'14 Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel
Rotella T6 5w-40 & OEM filter
Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2867633
01/12/13 09:05 AM
01/12/13 09:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,019
Florida /Texas
Mackelroy Offline
Mackelroy  Offline
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,019
Florida /Texas
Whats the Goal here?

To try and run a cheap oil and formulate your own zddp package, seems alittle nuts, since there are already oils with good MC packages, already formulated and Formally tested.

I think this is like Mavel mystery oil, more a feel good package.

Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2868212
01/12/13 06:45 PM
01/12/13 06:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 49
Lethbridge Alberta
cycleman Offline
cycleman  Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 49
Lethbridge Alberta
I would just stay with a mc specific oil in the weight that your owners manual specs. Changing the make up of an oil by blending an additive is asking for problems. More of something is not always better.

All bikes need a minimum level of additives which is covered by the MA endorsement.

Re: ZDDP Engine Oil Additive for Motorcycle [Re: Degreaser] #2868220
01/12/13 06:52 PM
01/12/13 06:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,064
Ruidoso, NM USA
ammolab Offline
ammolab  Offline
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,064
Ruidoso, NM USA
Valvoline VR-1 Dino and Synthetic have stout levels of ZDDP and have done very well in dry clutch motorcycle use.....not sure if any wet clutch issues have been reported.


2009 Honda CR-V
2011 BMW R1200R
2005 Kaw Ninja 250
1994 Jeep Wrangler 2.5L
2016 Chevy SS Sport Sedan
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