Here I go again.New ford truck burning 5w20 oil.

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: skyship
I should have said dealership, as the Volvo document says consult the dealer about which oil to use after 150K,

Would you please post this document or the except from it.
Such a recommendation if genuine opens up a lot of engine maintenance questions for older vehicles.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Time for another skyship fact check..

Volvo V70 2009.
Originally Posted By: Volvo
When temperatures exceed 104 °F (40 °C) in
your area, Volvo recommends, for the protection
of your engine, that you use a heavier
weight oil, such as such as SAE 5W-40 or
0W-40. See the viscosity chart.
G023491
Viscosity table
Operation in temperate climates
Incorrect viscosity oil can shorten engine life.
Under normal use when temperatures do not
exceed 104 °F (40 °C), SAE 5W-30 will provide
good fuel economy and engine protection. See
the viscosity chart.
Extreme engine operation
Synthetic oils meeting SAE 0W-30 or 0W-40
and complying with oil quality requirements are
recommended for driving in areas of sustained
temperature extremes (hot or cold), when towing
a trailer over long distances, and for prolonged
driving in mountainous areas.

Originally Posted By: Skyship
They specify full synthetic ACEA A5/B5 0 or 5/30 oil until 150K miles, then 5/40 for nearly all their cars

for 2009
Originally Posted By: Volvo
Engine oil must meet the minimum ILSAC
specification GF-4, API SL, or ACEA A1/B1.

For 2012..
Originally Posted By: Volvo
Engine oil must meet the minimum ILSAC
specification GF-4, API SL, or ACEA A1/B1.
Lower quality oils may not offer the same fuel
economy, engine performance, or engine protection

Originally Posted By: Volvo
Incorrect viscosity oil can shorten engine life
under normal use. SAE 5W-30 will provide
good fuel economy and engine protection. See
the viscosity chart.
Extreme engine operation
Synthetic oils meeting SAE 0W-30 or 0W-40
and complying with oil quality requirements are recommended for driving in areas of sustained
temperature extremes (hot or cold), when towing
a trailer over long distances, and for prolonged
driving in mountainous areas.


Please post document where they want you to change to a different viscosity at 150K.
Before you go off on a "thats American spec" rant...
From Shell.UK
Originally Posted By: sell.UK
S80 2.0 (107kW) (P) (200
Application Recommendation Capacity (ltr) Data Sheets
Engine (P) Helix Ultra AF 5W30 (b, c)

Granted Euro spec is most likely A5,B5 but i still cant find anything that says use 5w40 after 150K

The do however give alternatives but are temperature related as is the US specs.
Originally Posted By: Shell.UK
b. Alternative recommendations: Helix Ultra AS 0W-30
c. Alternative recommendations, >2002: A5 0W-40; -25°C to 40°C, A5+B5 5W-40; -10°C to 30°C, A5+B5 10W-30; -10°C to 40°C, A5+B5 10W-40


Help me out here with this viscosity change at 150K


Why are you posting Shell oil specs because Volvo recommend Castrol? The 150K "Talk to dealer" was only in connection with new cars sold in the US, I know the Volvo folks quite well and their recommendations after 150K have to follow current Castrol best or alternate oil recommendations, which are almost the same as those in the manufacturers docs, although my own car lists straight 30 grade as an alternative for a narrow temperature range when that type of oil is not easily available.
The Shell list looks very similar to the Castrol one and it does list 5/40, but the dealers are using 0 and 5/30 for new cars with less than 150K, although you can request any oil on the Castrol approved list, so they will use a cheaper Magnetec 10/40 if you ask them for an older car outside of the warranty.
This is the link for the Volvo chart showing Magnetec for older cars:
CASTROL
(Thats for UK cars only)
If you want to read about the 150K "Talk to dealer" part it should be listed in the US service schedule or a copy of the owners handbook. Try Google as I don't have time to go search for that US page again, but it was a handbook copy. All it said was Volvo recommend fully synthetic 0 or 5/30 and ask the dealer after 150K miles. Castrol don't sell their full product range in the US, so the EU Volvo handbook could be slightly different.
Incidentally Wikepedia is not a good source of info on German laws, because I asked the lawyer where I work, why I could not find a place that would accept used oil and he said a supermarket in BW is normally not defined as an approved outlet for lubricants, so they don't have to take old oil back. ATU who sell oil do take it back because they have an associated maintenance facility that has to have a return oil policy. So in effect the supermarkets who are nearly all selling oil have dodged around the law by failing to register themselves correctly.
If you are reading this in Germany then it is worth thinking about buying oil from a major approved Fleabay dealer as they are cheaper and most Iffy lubes have an online store. It might not be cheaper in the UK because of more restrictive expensive postal requirements.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Why are you posting Shell oil specs because Volvo recommend Castrol?

So what? Shell, Mobil, BP, LM all get their specs from the OEM. Castrol is recommended but not mandatory.
You don't seem to have any problem posting what LM recommends for peoples engines because they get their info from the manufacturer.
Originally Posted By: skyship
If you want to read about the 150K "Talk to dealer" part it should be listed in the US service schedule or a copy of the owners handbook

Nope not there. Thing is at my Stammtisch we have the original area Volvo dealer before Fiegl took the franchise. I will call him when i have some time and get to the bottom of this.
I have the resources its just a question of how much time do i want to spend confirming or debunking your statements.
Originally Posted By: skyship
Incidentally Wikepedia is not a good source of info on German laws

What gives you the idea i used Wikepedia? I didn't.
That was taken from the Florida waste water management who was looking at other states and countries laws to model their own on.
I posted it in English for the benefit of other Bitog members.
I don't need Wikepedia or Google for info on German laws, i have other resources.
Originally Posted By: skyship
I asked the lawyer where I work, why I could not find a place that would accept used oil and he said a supermarket in BW is normally not defined as an approved outlet for lubricants, so they don't have to take old oil back. ATU who sell oil do take it back because they have an associated maintenance facility that has to have a return oil policy. So in effect the supermarkets who are nearly all selling oil have dodged around the law by failing to register themselves correctly.

Oh please stop this nonsense. No one is skating the law, no one! Maybe when it was first introduced almost 30 yrs ago they may have skated it but not for long.
I live in Nürnberg when i am there and buy oil all the time at the Metro. They take the old back without question.
As does the Meister, Kaufland, Hornbach, Obi, Praktiker, etc. It is rare to find oil being sold by Lidl, Edeka, Aldi, Rewe, etc but if they did they would have to take it back.
Originally Posted By: skyship
it is worth thinking about buying oil from a major approved Fleabay dealer as they are cheaper and most Iffy lubes have an online store

No thanks i buy it locally. I get a decent rebate from stores i have done business with all my life and am known.

 

[skyship]

You seem to be following me around nit picking over every point in my posts for some reason.
I will take a look later to see if I can find the 2012 US owners manual for a Volvo 50 or 60, but I am not keeping copies of every link and it was a PDF so not so easy to find without the same key words.
The entire point of my post that you seem to be nit picking was to make the very important point that Ford in the US are using a very different and cheaper 5/20 for the same 2.0 block as Volvo use, who recommend a fully synthetic 0/30 for and Volvo are keen on maintaining their reputation for long engine life.
The reason I post LM oil guide info sometimes is that their US vehicle page works far better and lists more different engines than the Castrol one, it also gives better OCI information. The Mobil guide is good but also fails to list OCI information for some cars and misses out the alternatives sometimes.
Germany has a vast number of laws, but some are not inforced and the BW region down South is a law unto itself and the oil return policy is one of them, the farmers even wash their own vehicles. I would not be surprised if OBI in particular has a return oil approval, but they said no as well, although very few car owners change their own oil in BW because they have modern cars that require the use of ramps and in my case 3 different tools to do an oil change (Engine under guard pin removal tool, Volvo sump hex spanner and oil filter clamp). You can get the OCI done with your own oil & filter for about 15 to 20 Euros in smaller garages or Pit Stop etc.

 

[skyship]

One point to avoid confusion is that I think the EU Volvo V50 has a different engine series to the US one, as it's not a 2.0.

 

[electrolover]

The truck is gonna be wore out by the time yall are through debating. ...

 

[Trav]

Not picking on you.
The 150K viscosity switch has some implications that may be worth exploring e.g. the manufacturer expects the engine to be worn to the point it needs thicker oil.

Could it be that anything spec for 20w may need 30w when it gets to 150K or a 30w engine may need a 40w as it ages?
Its almost like they are putting a useful life span on the engine. Definitely worth investigating.
Originally Posted By: skyship
You seem to be following me around nit picking over every point in my posts for some reason.

Stop posting stuff like this and i wont bother.
Originally Posted By: skyship
asked the lawyer where I work, why I could not find a place that would accept used oil and he said a supermarket in BW is normally not defined as an approved outlet for lubricants, so they don't have to take old oil back. ATU who sell oil do take it back because they have an associated maintenance facility that has to have a return oil policy. So in effect the supermarkets who are nearly all selling oil have dodged around the law by failing to register themselves correctly.

Either this lawyer need to go back to law school or its a whopper.
Think about what you are saying man.

You don't think folks in government or environmental watchdog groups would know this if were true?
For your so called company lawyer to know it it must be common knowledge.
These officials and groups would just let them circumvent the law and not say or do anything?
No way in hades. The German enviroweenie groups are more rabid than they are here, they would go off their trolley and start protesting Aldi.

People reading these threads are looking for information that may help them either make a decision or solve an issue. Telling tall tales and hijacking threads with long winded post filled with falsehoods and inaccuracy is a disservice.
Everyone has a right to their opinion and voice it, this is a forum not an advice column but making up "facts" to back your position and nullify others opinion is over the top.

 

[skyship]

One interesting thing I discovered about what Volvo recommend about oil grades, is they are asking you to consult the dealer and stick to various 0 and 5/30 grades, BUT if you look at the oil page of the warranty document, it lists 0 and 5/40 is approved and this appears to be for the same engine that Ford say should use a 5/20.
V50 GUIDE
The crazy thing is the dealers are allowed to use a dinoblend 5/30 in the US, when they list 10/30 full synthetic for severe service, which would be OK unless you have real cool winters.
Seems to be the further effects of CAFE bean counting when I had hoped they were going to forget the credits game. The best hot climate severe service oil is not 10/30 but a fully synthetic 15/40, which is does state on a different site.
In general terms I steer clear of 15/40 because it is a real cheap oil, BUT you can get a few fully synthetic good quality major brand 15/40's. Not sure if Castrol do one, but Amsoil does and they are good hot desert oils.
It seems rather nuts that if you want to know which oils are approved, it is better to check the warranty than the oil page, because if the result of a "Talk to the dealer" is a move to a 40 grade, it has to be covered by the warranty.
This V50 doc does at least list 0/30 and 40 fully synthetics for, which is a step in the right direction:
V50 manual
I presume CAFE is based on oil specs in the handbook not the warranty and by saying consult the dealer they are allowing themselves a way around the regs. At least Volvo are making an effort to avoid the side effects of thin oil use, even if Ford are just sticking to 5/20 and not saying much about severe service issues.
Any news on the V10 oil consumption?

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Not picking on you.
The 150K viscosity switch has some implications that may be worth exploring e.g. the manufacturer expects the engine to be worn to the point it needs thicker oil.

Could it be that anything spec for 20w may need 30w when it gets to 150K or a 30w engine may need a 40w as it ages?
Its almost like they are putting a useful life span on the engine. Definitely worth investigating.
Originally Posted By: skyship
You seem to be following me around nit picking over every point in my posts for some reason.

Stop posting stuff like this and i wont bother.
Originally Posted By: skyship
asked the lawyer where I work, why I could not find a place that would accept used oil and he said a supermarket in BW is normally not defined as an approved outlet for lubricants, so they don't have to take old oil back. ATU who sell oil do take it back because they have an associated maintenance facility that has to have a return oil policy. So in effect the supermarkets who are nearly all selling oil have dodged around the law by failing to register themselves correctly.

Either this lawyer need to go back to law school or its a whopper.
Think about what you are saying man.

You don't think folks in government or environmental watchdog groups would know this if were true?
For your so called company lawyer to know it it must be common knowledge.
These officials and groups would just let them circumvent the law and not say or do anything?
No way in hades. The German enviroweenie groups are more rabid than they are here, they would go off their trolley and start protesting Aldi.

People reading these threads are looking for information that may help them either make a decision or solve an issue. Telling tall tales and hijacking threads with long winded post filled with falsehoods and inaccuracy is a disservice.
IT'S IS DISSERVICE TO RECOMMEND USING DRIVE AROUND SCOURERS IN THE OIL!
Everyone has a right to their opinion and voice it, this is a forum not an advice column but making up "facts" to back your position and nullify others opinion is over the top.


A fact is a fact and the supermarkets I asked don't take used oil and the greens are far too busy over oil pollution from farmers than folks buying supermarket oil, as ATU & Pit Stop take oil back even if they did not sell it, but for some odd reason you are nit picking off topic again.
We have drifted off topic and this will be my last post unless someone has more info on the V10 oil consumption, or as the CAFE bean counting game is of interest to many some comment about that subject, as it does appear there are US warranty related docs listing other oils than the manuals or guides.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: skyship
A fact is a fact and the supermarkets I asked don't take used oil

Do they sell motor oil?
If they do they must take it back its that simple. I don't see motor oil sold in supermarkets.
Originally Posted By: skyship
the greens are far too busy over oil pollution from farmers than folks buying supermarket oil,

What are you carrying on about farmers now? Off topic?

Just keep posting you long winded tripe.

 

[electrolover]

I bought oil at kroger once. It was on sale......but they dont recycle oil there.

This one time I got MMO at the dollar store.

Today Kroger had a sale on thick ribeye steak. Two for $8!!!! I got four packs of em. Saved $46. With my kroger card

I know a guy that ran 10/30 maxlife in his 5/20 spec ford Taurus from day one. It has 100k on it now and the only problem he ever had was coil packs. He also runs the orange can of death ven tho I warned him....old timers, right.

 

[wolfc70]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
There is an old trick to seat stubburn rings. You pour small amouts of powdered detergent down the carb while its running. I dont know if that is even possible with your engine but I have seen a few oldtimers do it and it worked. You could also try spraying carb cleaner in while its running. The point is to wash the cylinder walls down so friction gets high and the rings seat.

But if you buy a new truck it should just work from day one!


Never ever do this to an engine! One, it will score the cylinder walls, and two, if it even does not destroy something, the abrasions are going the wrong way! You want honing around the circumference of the cylinder walls, not up and down. This is a guaranteed way to lose compression and require an immediate rebulid! This is a tale that should have died decades ago.

You have ONE shot to seat rings properly. ONE. That's it. If they don't seat the only solution is re-surfacing the cylinder walls. This is why manufacturers put 1qt/1000 miles, so they don't have to tear engines down due to normal variances.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: wolfc70
Originally Posted By: electrolover
There is an old trick to seat stubburn rings. You pour small amouts of powdered detergent down the carb while its running. I dont know if that is even possible with your engine but I have seen a few oldtimers do it and it worked. You could also try spraying carb cleaner in while its running. The point is to wash the cylinder walls down so friction gets high and the rings seat.

But if you buy a new truck it should just work from day one!


Never ever do this to an engine! One, it will score the cylinder walls, and two, if it even does not destroy something, the abrasions are going the wrong way! You want honing around the circumference of the cylinder walls, not up and down. This is a guaranteed way to lose compression and require an immediate rebulid! This is a tale that should have died decades ago.

You have ONE shot to seat rings properly. ONE. That's it. If they don't seat the only solution is re-surfacing the cylinder walls. This is why manufacturers put 1qt/1000 miles, so they don't have to tear engines down due to normal variances.


THIS ^

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: wolfc70
Originally Posted By: electrolover
There is an old trick to seat stubburn rings. You pour small amouts of powdered detergent down the carb while its running. I dont know if that is even possible with your engine but I have seen a few oldtimers do it and it worked. You could also try spraying carb cleaner in while its running. The point is to wash the cylinder walls down so friction gets high and the rings seat.

But if you buy a new truck it should just work from day one!


Never ever do this to an engine! One, it will score the cylinder walls, and two, if it even does not destroy something, the abrasions are going the wrong way! You want honing around the circumference of the cylinder walls, not up and down. This is a guaranteed way to lose compression and require an immediate rebulid! This is a tale that should have died decades ago.

You have ONE shot to seat rings properly. ONE. That's it. If they don't seat the only solution is re-surfacing the cylinder walls. This is why manufacturers put 1qt/1000 miles, so they don't have to tear engines down due to normal variances.


THIS ^

+2

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: wolfc70
Originally Posted By: electrolover
There is an old trick to seat stubburn rings. You pour small amouts of powdered detergent down the carb while its running. I dont know if that is even possible with your engine but I have seen a few oldtimers do it and it worked. You could also try spraying carb cleaner in while its running. The point is to wash the cylinder walls down so friction gets high and the rings seat.

But if you buy a new truck it should just work from day one!


Never ever do this to an engine! One, it will score the cylinder walls, and two, if it even does not destroy something, the abrasions are going the wrong way! You want honing around the circumference of the cylinder walls, not up and down. This is a guaranteed way to lose compression and require an immediate rebulid! This is a tale that should have died decades ago.

You have ONE shot to seat rings properly. ONE. That's it. If they don't seat the only solution is re-surfacing the cylinder walls. This is why manufacturers put 1qt/1000 miles, so they don't have to tear engines down due to normal variances.


Very correct, I was thinking about commenting earlier BUT thought it was some old American engineers joke!!!

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: wolfc70
Originally Posted By: electrolover
There is an old trick to seat stubburn rings. You pour small amouts of powdered detergent down the carb while its running. I dont know if that is even possible with your engine but I have seen a few oldtimers do it and it worked. You could also try spraying carb cleaner in while its running. The point is to wash the cylinder walls down so friction gets high and the rings seat.

But if you buy a new truck it should just work from day one!


Never ever do this to an engine! One, it will score the cylinder walls, and two, if it even does not destroy something, the abrasions are going the wrong way! You want honing around the circumference of the cylinder walls, not up and down. This is a guaranteed way to lose compression and require an immediate rebulid! This is a tale that should have died decades ago.

You have ONE shot to seat rings properly. ONE. That's it. If they don't seat the only solution is re-surfacing the cylinder walls. This is why manufacturers put 1qt/1000 miles, so they don't have to tear engines down due to normal variances.



I have seen it done on a grand am 4 cylinder and it worked. The motor is still running today. But I guess when you just ball hone a block and slap it together with moly rings your gonna have a hard time getting them to seat. I wouldnt recommend him to do this with a brand new truck. I was just sayin....
I would just take the sucker back and get one that didnt use oil!!!


Try not to freak out

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: wolfc70
Originally Posted By: electrolover
There is an old trick to seat stubburn rings. You pour small amouts of powdered detergent down the carb while its running. I dont know if that is even possible with your engine but I have seen a few oldtimers do it and it worked. You could also try spraying carb cleaner in while its running. The point is to wash the cylinder walls down so friction gets high and the rings seat.

But if you buy a new truck it should just work from day one!


Never ever do this to an engine! One, it will score the cylinder walls, and two, if it even does not destroy something, the abrasions are going the wrong way! You want honing around the circumference of the cylinder walls, not up and down. This is a guaranteed way to lose compression and require an immediate rebulid! This is a tale that should have died decades ago.

You have ONE shot to seat rings properly. ONE. That's it. If they don't seat the only solution is re-surfacing the cylinder walls. This is why manufacturers put 1qt/1000 miles, so they don't have to tear engines down due to normal variances.



I have seen it done on a grand am 4 cylinder and it worked. The motor is still running today. But I guess when you just ball hone a block and slap it together with moly rings your gonna have a hard time getting them to seat. I wouldnt recommend him to do this with a brand new truck. I was just sayin....
I would just take the sucker back and get one that didnt use oil!!!
Try not to freak out

Problem with new engine defects is that you need to figure out how to prove the engine is defective. Most dealers will play for time until the warranty runs out if the engine does not fail. If the OP can't get things sorted it might be an idea to pay for the extra power train warranty, as there is a big chance he might need it, although I would check the fine print to see if it covers running out of oil. I seem to remember a legal case with Fiat over a truck that ran out of oil and the dealer escaped because the auto tribunal decided that the driver was at fault because the oil pressure warning light was working. Folks put a lot of faith in warranties, but unless you get an obvious big time failure they often don't work too well. The Amsoil 30K mile (I think) oil life one is the biggest joke, as proving what an older engine fails from is one expensive and sometimes impossible task.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: wolfc70
Originally Posted By: electrolover
There is an old trick to seat stubburn rings. You pour small amouts of powdered detergent down the carb while its running. I dont know if that is even possible with your engine but I have seen a few oldtimers do it and it worked. You could also try spraying carb cleaner in while its running. The point is to wash the cylinder walls down so friction gets high and the rings seat.

But if you buy a new truck it should just work from day one!


Never ever do this to an engine! One, it will score the cylinder walls, and two, if it even does not destroy something, the abrasions are going the wrong way! You want honing around the circumference of the cylinder walls, not up and down. This is a guaranteed way to lose compression and require an immediate rebulid! This is a tale that should have died decades ago.

You have ONE shot to seat rings properly. ONE. That's it. If they don't seat the only solution is re-surfacing the cylinder walls. This is why manufacturers put 1qt/1000 miles, so they don't have to tear engines down due to normal variances.


THIS ^

Agreed, and it does not happen every time. Usually an easy break in is a possible culprit, but it is unlikely in this vehicle.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: wolfc70
Originally Posted By: electrolover
There is an old trick to seat stubburn rings. You pour small amouts of powdered detergent down the carb while its running. I dont know if that is even possible with your engine but I have seen a few oldtimers do it and it worked. You could also try spraying carb cleaner in while its running. The point is to wash the cylinder walls down so friction gets high and the rings seat.

But if you buy a new truck it should just work from day one!


Never ever do this to an engine! One, it will score the cylinder walls, and two, if it even does not destroy something, the abrasions are going the wrong way! You want honing around the circumference of the cylinder walls, not up and down. This is a guaranteed way to lose compression and require an immediate rebulid! This is a tale that should have died decades ago.

You have ONE shot to seat rings properly. ONE. That's it. If they don't seat the only solution is re-surfacing the cylinder walls. This is why manufacturers put 1qt/1000 miles, so they don't have to tear engines down due to normal variances.



I have seen it done on a grand am 4 cylinder and it worked. The motor is still running today. But I guess when you just ball hone a block and slap it together with moly rings your gonna have a hard time getting them to seat. I wouldnt recommend him to do this with a brand new truck. I was just sayin....
I would just take the sucker back and get one that didnt use oil!!!
Try not to freak out

Problem with new engine defects is that you need to figure out how to prove the engine is defective. Most dealers will play for time until the warranty runs out if the engine does not fail. If the OP can't get things sorted it might be an idea to pay for the extra power train warranty, as there is a big chance he might need it, although I would check the fine print to see if it covers running out of oil. I seem to remember a legal case with Fiat over a truck that ran out of oil and the dealer escaped because the auto tribunal decided that the driver was at fault because the oil pressure warning light was working. Folks put a lot of faith in warranties, but unless you get an obvious big time failure they often don't work too well. The Amsoil 30K mile (I think) oil life one is the biggest joke, as proving what an older engine fails from is one expensive and sometimes impossible task.



25000 miles for Amsoil
K. The truck doesn't have 2000 miles on it yet and we have 8 or 9 pages here. I'm sure the op has reviewed the thread,and every possible answer has been delivered,and sunkship enlightening us with his expertise and vast experience with Amsoil and comparing a lemon law cases on 2 different continents.
I hope it's nice out today.

 

[Trav]

Yes the insanity in this thread is astounding.
The truck isn't even broken in yet. IMHO give it 12-15K before condemning the engine as an oil burner and going to thicker oil or other measures to cure what isn't there.

First it was supermarkets taking oil back they didn't sell, laundry detergent down the cylinders, German farmers polluting the ground water, Volvos, and now Amsoil.
Its a real troll driven (sunkship) mad house.