VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing

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This is a failed (AUG engine code) 1.8t VW engine that apparently spun a cam bearing (noticed when I removed cams) and siezed the top end and shut down the engine. No apparent timing belt damage or misalignment. From what the previous owner said this is probably the 4th 10k OCI with PYB 5-30, unkown maintenance history previous to that. Had a Mobil 1 filter on it when I drained the oil. Some sludge buildup was evident and the oil pressure warning had been triggered on multiple occasions and there was apparently a sludge fix in its history prior to 120k miles as well.

Code:




Mileage 174k

OCI 10k

Oil PYB 5-30

ALUMINUM 12

CHROMIUM 2

IRON 56

COPPER 15

LEAD 2

TIN 8

MOLY 85

NICKEL 2

MANGANESE 1

SILVER 0

TITANIUM 0

POTASSIUM 4

BORON 39

SILICON 26

SODIUM 14

CALCIUM 2276

MAGNESIUM 15

PHOSPHORUS 816

ZINC 963

BARIUM 1



cSt100 9.52

SUS Visc 57.6

Flash°F: 400

Fuel %:
Coolant%: 0

Water%: 0

Insol%: 0.3

TBN: ?


I find it interesting that Insol% is only 0.3 despite the evidence of sludge buildup, and also note that the air filter was deformed which probably lead to the high silicon.

Also the cam 'bearings' aren't really bearings but aluminum surfaces integral to the head and caps. The failed surface is either from lack of oiling leading to melting of the surface or possibly ingestion of some foriegn metal fragment. There is a bunch of metal galling on both the bearing surface and cam surface so I'm not sure which is more likely.
 
So does this show that 10k oil change intervals are too much in this particular engine,how about driving style? Would a 40 grade,or a shorter oil change interval possibly not caused bearing failure.
What can you tell us about how it was driven,is this the only uoa or were more done.
I thought PYB was a good oil for cleaning,why in this application has it not helped the sludge,or was the interval just too long?
As much info as you can provide would be great if possible.
Thank you
 
Repeated 10k miles on dino oil on a high-strung turbo engine in a fairly heavy car will do that...

PYB 5w-30 is excellent oil. It's just not the right oil for this application, and the owner ran it thrice as long as I'd hazard was safe in a turbo engine. In this application, PYB 5w-30 is more of a "get one home safe" oil to change it later with the recommended oil than a long-drain oil.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Repeated 10k miles on dino oil on a high-strung turbo engine in a fairly heavy car will do that...

PYB 5w-30 is excellent oil. It's just not the right oil for this application, and the owner ran it thrice as long as I'd hazard was safe in a turbo engine. In this application, PYB 5w-30 is more of a "get one home safe" oil to change it later with the recommended oil than a long-drain oil.


I would tend to agree with you. PYB is great in oil,but I think following the manufacturers recommendation may have been a good idea.
I can't see the oil,even if its a turbo being a problem with a proper interval,10k was obviously too much.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
10,000 miles on a dino oil? Good lord!


It's doable in low-power NA engines like the one in our Fit. It's not the right interval or oil for a VW turbo engine, though.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Repeated 10k miles on dino oil on a high-strung turbo engine in a fairly heavy car will do that...

PYB 5w-30 is excellent oil. It's just not the right oil for this application, and the owner ran it thrice as long as I'd hazard was safe in a turbo engine. In this application, PYB 5w-30 is more of a "get one home safe" oil to change it later with the recommended oil than a long-drain oil.


I would tend to agree with you. PYB is great in oil,but I think following the manufacturers recommendation may have been a good idea.
I can't see the oil,even if its a turbo being a problem with a proper interval,10k was obviously too much.


The previous owner probably followed VWoA's recommended interval. Problem was, he didn't use the right oil and toasted the engine. I've seen one similar case with a Cruze's 1.4T where the owner toasted the engine by running the cheapest Jiffy Lube fill to 0% on the OLM repeatedly.
 
That engine is notorious for running hot and needing good oil.

Something like 5w40 syn would "PROBABLY" be ok for 10k miles

pyb 5w30 for 10k miles... a bunch of times.. uh no.

not only no WHAT the heck were they thinking no.

That oil does NOT meet the spec vw specifies for that engine.
 
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This is why I LAUGH at folks that constantly bash Volkswagen products...when IN REALITY most problems are caused by poor, or improper maintenance, and or abuse of the vehicle in general.
 
VW engines should stay fairly clean if kept away from too much time at idle and a major brand oil (Castro, Mobil, Shell and Liqui Moly) with a good OCI used. If it had a previous history of sludge, it sounds like it was abused or had a head gasket fault, as anti freeze kills the detergents and dispersants preventing sludge formation very quickly.
If you get an oil pressure warning at idle when hot, turn the engine off asap and don't start it again until it is fully inspected, as the oil pump intake screen has probably blocked. The sump needs to be removed and cleaned next, but if it's bad the head also has to be removed for a long messy cleaning job. Then it's a case of switching to an HM oil or high detergent oil and short first OCI.
The Silicon is a bit high, but it seems the failure was caused by a bearing damaged by poor lubrication. The Germans use a top of the range 5/40 Synthoil if they want a VW to last.
 
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
So does this show that 10k oil change intervals are too much in this particular engine,how about driving style? Would a 40 grade,or a shorter oil change interval possibly not caused bearing failure.
What can you tell us about how it was driven,is this the only uoa or were more done.
I thought PYB was a good oil for cleaning,why in this application has it not helped the sludge,or was the interval just too long?
As much info as you can provide would be great if possible.
Thank you


10K miles is fine for normal service, but if this car was only used in the city it is too much. 5K mile oil only changes with 10K mile main services.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Repeated 10k miles on dino oil on a high-strung turbo engine in a fairly heavy car will do that...


...not to mention a smaller sump than a similar engine in a front wheel drive vehicle. Passats have the engine mounted longitudinally, so the front crossmember takes up nearly a liter of oil capacity that would be there normally. Typical sump capacites:

2001 Passat 1.8T: 3.7 liters
2001 Jetta 1.8T: 4.5 liters

Smaller sump, heavier car, high strung turbocharged engine doing 10k OCIs on mineral oil is a recipe for disaster. Which is why VW & Audi pegged OCI back to 5k miles and enforced synthetic 502.00 oil for those applications.
 
The only really annoying problem with the 1.8T lump in the UK is the failure of coil packs.

Happens to all the 1.8T's as car as I am aware.

Sister had a nice 7 seater, Seat Albambra with the 1.8T engine in it, bought new and that went through several coil packs.

Anybody that runs dino/mineral in a turbo charged VW for 10k deserves all they get.

The owner has probably saved $40 over the course of 40k miles.

Bargain!

Not!
 
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
This is why I LAUGH at folks that constantly bash Volkswagen products...when IN REALITY most problems are caused by poor, or improper maintenance, and or abuse of the vehicle in general.



how exactly do I maintain all of the electrical wiring and relays that constantly fail in every VW I've ever owned? Just wondering...

This isn't even close to the correct oil for this engine. It required a VW502 oil, which has a minimum hths of 3.5. It's not that 10K is too long for "dino", this is simply the wrong oil for this engine. I'm not surprised it failed.
 
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
This is why I LAUGH at folks that constantly bash Volkswagen products...when IN REALITY most problems are caused by poor, or improper maintenance, and or abuse of the vehicle in general.



Not really; they aren't that reliable even when maintained.
 
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Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
This is why I LAUGH at folks that constantly bash Volkswagen products...when IN REALITY most problems are caused by poor, or improper maintenance, and or abuse of the vehicle in general.



Not really; they aren't that reliable even when maintained.



This!

I have said before VW are rather overrated.

Not bad by any stretch of the imagination but they have a very good PR machine and advertising agents ensuring they are popular with the middle class's and those wanting to be seen to be middleclass.

You just know they would be better off with a Mondeo, Accord or even a Legacy but they get caught up in the image and get a Passat.

I can only imagine what the suspension bushes and other suspension parts on this car are like if the owner didn't want to pay out for decent oil at a sensible interval.

If I wanted to save money I would have run a quality semi synth to VW specs and changed at 7/8k.

It is strange how the 1.8T engine doesn't have a reputation for sludging in the UK.

Is it use of dino that causes it or perhaps the high sulphur content in US fuel?

Is the owner going to fix it or put in a good low mileage used engine?

I would go the good used engine route myself.
 
I don't think vw is any better or worse than any other automaker. Maintaining a vehicle properly will usually insure a long life and reliability.
Using an oil in a turbo engine at unreasonable intervals will fry most any engine. Could be why vw puts in their OM that a certain spec oil is required or failure imminent.
 
Will y'all (simple_gifts, JOD, bigjl, Clevy) please lay off the off-topic VW bashing. It's annoying and boring and a waste of time so back on topic PLEASE.

The driving was best possible scenario: highway long commute 40 miles each way in moderate climate. AT so it wasn't over-revved or run hard in any way.

Clearly yes, this is a case of operator error and not paying attention to the owners manual.
 
I wish he would have posted the UOA first and asked for comment w/o telling us first that the engine failed.

Isn't a key point whether the UOA gives any indication of pending engine failure? If someone got a sample like this, what would tip you off that the OCI is too long and you are on the verge of failure? The FE is high, but for 10k miles, by what? Factor of 2 when adjusted for mileage?
 
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